Vegas pro 18 (also build 337) "no response" after about 30 minutes.

Comments

walter-i. wrote on 11/4/2020, 3:41 PM

@Howard-Vigorita
Thank you for your in-depth advice on my misery. I am currently in intensive contact with support and be advised by them on what to do or to adjust.
So I don't want to try anything else now so that we don't get confused.

However, I will be happy to come back to your suggestions if I cannot come up with a solution with the support. Again, thank you very much.
 

David Johns wrote on 11/4/2020, 4:01 PM

using the Intel QSV decoder). We could not reproduce either the freeze or a crash.

The project will exhibit slower playback on certain machines on account of using some of the more intensive FX,

Slower playback with FX is not in doubt or the issue. It is, I think, obvious that it will slow down when you add FX. The issue is grey-screen freezing up when editing these files, even with no effects or effects bypassed.

On my machine, I do not have the option of Intel QSV as HP have somehow managed to disable it on the laptop and it can’t even be enabled in the BIOS. Thus Vegas uses the GTX1060.

I have so4compund enabled (I was under the impression the old issues had been fixed that necessitated it being bypassed)

RogerS wrote on 11/4/2020, 10:49 PM

Update: I went back to my regular 24p Sony AVC footage and after putting an hour so of 4K clips on the timeline, adding a LUT, playing back at best/full and trimming, skipping around while playing, couldn't trigger freezes or crashes with 373. I was able to get the laptop to throttle due to heat, but after quite a long time playing back files, so that doesn't seem specific to Walter's files.

I tried Walter's files again skipping around while playing back at best/full and shortening clips during playback as before. I didn't get any crashes for ~30 min. After the laptop started power throttling, trying to play different clips resulted in a freeze (not responding). So for me, I think issues are likely temperature related and perhaps not due to the file type or 25p. Hopefully others can help narrow it down.

Are you using CPU-Z & GPU-Z to monitor temps? I use GPU-Z quite a lot to see what my GPU gets to in some game bench marks. Normally never above 70C for GPU.

I am using Throttlestop to monitor. I believe the GPU is hard limited to 75C, but it doesn't go above ~68C anyway. The issue with the system isn't that the CPU or GPU ever get close to their thermal limits, but rather that the system is power limited- the VRM/MOSFETs that supply power get too hot and then the system brings the CPU down to 700MHZ until it cools. I can mitigate this by undervolting the CPU to -120mv to the point that I've not noticed thermal throttling with Vegas until now. I literally have to play 4K footage for 30+ min continuously at best/full to trigger it.

RogerS wrote on 11/4/2020, 11:33 PM

I cleaned out my laptop fan today and retried Walter's project.

This time I just put it on loop at best/full and played it back for about 20 min. I was keeping an eye on temperatures the whole time and noticed when the fans suddenly got quiet. I didn't hit any thermal limits, Vegas just froze (white screen).

walter-i. wrote on 11/5/2020, 7:06 AM

In my case, turning off the GPU acceleration does not prevent from freezing after a short time.

David Johns wrote on 11/5/2020, 9:25 AM

Try turn off GPU acceleration.

I always run with it off, otherwise I end up with glitches in the renders. The freezing up when editing persists regardless.

walter-i. wrote on 11/5/2020, 11:01 AM

Why do I have a GPU when I should turn it off when rendering and previewing?
To diagnose what is causing the problems - yes OK - but all the time?
It can't be that either!

Teetime wrote on 11/5/2020, 2:55 PM

@walter-i., I have an insight that may be useful. I'm on Vegas 18 build 334 and have same gpu as you. I also have freezes, typically after working 15-30 minutes. But one thing I have noticed on mine is the freeze always happens when I have a dialog open (usually an fx) and then click an event on the timeline. When it freezes, it happens at the instant of the click. Do you see similar behavior? Or does yours freeze after time even if no action taken?

Last changed by Teetime on 11/5/2020, 2:56 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

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NLE: Vegas Pro18
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j-v wrote on 11/5/2020, 3:44 PM

I can trigger a kind of freezing of all builds of VPro 18 I showed already the development team, triggering whenever I want it to happen by using switches in Vegas/View/ Window Layouts.
But I found also a way, without shutting down, to brake the freeze by letting the picture leaves my desktop and call it again through the program icon on the taskbar.
Look

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walter-i. wrote on 11/6/2020, 3:05 PM

@Teetime
 

@walter-i., I have an insight that may be useful. I'm on Vegas 18 build 334 and have same gpu as you. I also have freezes, typically after working 15-30 minutes. But one thing I have noticed on mine is the freeze always happens when I have a dialog open (usually an fx) and then click an event on the timeline. When it freezes, it happens at the instant of the click. Do you see similar behavior? Or does yours freeze after time even if no action taken?

The easiest way to trigger the freeze (in less than a minute) is to scroll back and forth in the timeline with the Shuttle Pro v2 (you can of course also do this with J and L on the keyboard if you don't have a Shuttle Pro).

@j-v

I can trigger a kind of freezing of all builds of VPro 18 I showed already the development team, triggering whenever I want it to happen by using switches in Vegas/View/ Window Layouts.

By switches Vegas /View/Window Layouts I cannot trigger freezing.
If I understand you correctly: I switched between the different window layouts about 20 times by using the keybord shortcuts.



But I found also a way, without shutting down, to brake the freeze by letting the picture leaves my desktop and call it again through the program icon on the taskbar.
Look

I've tried that too - that would be a nice workaround - but unfortunately it doesn't work for me

Many thanks for your suggestions!

andyrpsmith wrote on 11/6/2020, 3:10 PM

Hi Walter, I have no further freezes with your clips in my project, i have been going back regularly to play with and check for any crash. its gone stable.

(Intel 3rd gen i5@4.1GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, 1080Ti GPU, Windows 10) Not now used with Vegas.

13th gen i913900K - water cooled, 96GB RAM, 4TB M2 drive, 4TB games SSD, 2TB video SSD, GPU RTX 4080 Super, Windows 11 pro

walter-i. wrote on 11/6/2020, 3:26 PM

Hi Walter, I have no further freezes with your clips in my project, i have been going back regularly to play with and check for any crash. its gone stable.

Thanks for your feedback.
There will be some attitude that is causing these problems. I now write back and forth with the support every day, we're trying a few things, but we haven't found a solution yet.
I am patient ......😏

Yelandkeil wrote on 11/8/2020, 4:05 AM

Thanks, Walter. I think you've tried a lot of the common solutions.

I also have Intel HD Graphics 630 on my machine. 27.20.100.8853
My main card is the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 (4GB) 456.71
For me, having File I/O set to Intel reduces performance a bit but it's stable.

I also use Sony AVC files (4K and 1080p), though not from the same camera as you- I think yours is the one with the really good stabilization?
Yes, this stabilization is of great help, especially because I mainly film on excursions and hikes, and because I don't want to work awkwardly with a tripod. And I am also very satisfied with the quality of the images and the camera sound (for my needs).

Would you mind making one of your problem 4K clips available? I could try testing here and see if I can replicate your issues.
Here are two links (I can only upload a maximum of 100MB to Dropbox)
The jerks at the end of the clips come from the fact that the camera continues to run for half a second after it has been switched off and I keep forgetting to keep a little still.
In addition, the recordings are overexposed, but it was also about making files available "without people".

https://www.dropbox.com/t/f2qXjOmm9lERhTzd
https://www.dropbox.com/t/50enXkDSF4SgaYD1

Are there other running applications that might be conflicting with Vegas or competing for GPU resources?
Firefox mostly runs in the background for me, but - especially during the tests - only Vegas Pro so that there are no uncontrollable side effects.

What I also notice with the 4K material: When the video files are first loaded into the project, there are gaps between many files, which I then have to adjust with "Close gaps". This is not the case with HD-Material.

What I also notice with the 4K material: When the video files are first loaded into the project, there are gaps between many files, which I then have to adjust with "Close gaps". This is not the case with HD-Material.

This has nothing to do with 4K or other solutions, but the framerate of the material which doesn't match your project. Plz go Preferences/Internal and change the two parameters. After that u will see why there's gap between clips.

-- Hard&Software for 5.1RealHDR10 --

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO; 512GB/sys, 2TB/data 
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LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog

DC-GH6/H-FS12060E_HLG4k120p: WB=manual, Shutter=125, ISO=auto
HERO5_ProtuneFlat2.7k60pLinear: WB=4800K, Shutter=auto, ISO=800

VEGASPro22 + XMediaRecode/Handbrake + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 
K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback on PC) 

walter-i. wrote on 11/8/2020, 5:21 AM
This has nothing to do with 4K or other solutions, but the framerate of the material which doesn't match your project. Plz go Preferences/Internal and change the two parameters. After that u will see why there's gap between clips.

@Yelandkeil

Thanks for the hint - but before I adjust anything - maybe a representation of how I load footage into my project - maybe I'm doing something wrong - or I could do better:

I start with an empty project and use the mouse to drag footage - 10 files in this case - onto the timeline (all files were recorded with the same camera on the same day and with the same settings - 4k, 25p) When asked whether I would like to adapt the video settings of the project to this medium, I answer with "YES"

The files are loaded and most of them are lined up with no gaps, but there are 3 gaps between the 10 files.

One of the gaps looks like this when enlarged:

Here are the project settings that were generated by Vegas Pro 18


Here are the properties of the first event on the timeline that Vegas Pro uses to create the project properties. (right mouse button on the event - properties - general)

Allgemein
  Name: C0004.MP4
  Ordner: E:\Videobearbeitung\Ausflüge_Reisen\Virgen_2020\Footage\Teil2
  Typ: XAVC-S
  Größe: 41,54 MB (42 532 260 Byte)
  Erstellt: Dienstag, 27. Oktober 2020, 12:17:50
  Geändert: Freitag, 4. September 2020, 16:10:18
  Zugriff: Sonntag, 8. November 2020, 11:35:39
  Attribute: Archivieren

Streams
  Video: 00:00:05,760, 25,000 fps progressiv, 3840x2160x32, XAVC-S
  Audio: 00:00:05,760, 48 000 Hz; Stereo, PCM

Zusammenfassung
  [TCFM]: 322122547209

ACID-Informationen
  ACID-Chunk: nein
  Stretch-Chunk: nein
  Stretch-Liste: nein
  Stretch-Info2: nein
  Beat-Marker: nein
  Erkannte Beats: nein

Weitere Metadaten
  Regionen/Marker: nein
  Befehlsmarker: nein

Media Manager
  Medientags: nein

Plug-In
  Name: so4compoundplug.dll
  Ordner: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 18.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\so4compoundplug
  Format: AVC
  Version: Version 1.0 (Build 8532)
  Firma: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My question: Am I doing something wrong or is Vegas making a mistake?
Perhaps the causes of these gaps are related to the problem of freezing.

andyrpsmith wrote on 11/8/2020, 5:35 AM

Do you have enable snapping highlighted (on)?

Last changed by andyrpsmith on 11/8/2020, 5:36 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

(Intel 3rd gen i5@4.1GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, 1080Ti GPU, Windows 10) Not now used with Vegas.

13th gen i913900K - water cooled, 96GB RAM, 4TB M2 drive, 4TB games SSD, 2TB video SSD, GPU RTX 4080 Super, Windows 11 pro

Yelandkeil wrote on 11/8/2020, 5:37 AM

Or we form it in this way:

If a clip doesn't quantize properly on the timeline, it will mostly create at its end a gap (one frame unit) so that the next clip can only locate after this gap.

That saying you've done nothing wrong, but You must adjust/remove such occurrence manually.

 

Last changed by Yelandkeil on 11/8/2020, 5:38 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

-- Hard&Software for 5.1RealHDR10 --

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO; 512GB/sys, 2TB/data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-AdrenalinEdition 24.12.1
Windows11Pro: 24H2-26100.3194; Direct3D Driver: 9.17.11.0272

Samsung 2xLU28R55 HDR10 (300CD/m², 1499Nits/peak) ->2xDPort
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog

DC-GH6/H-FS12060E_HLG4k120p: WB=manual, Shutter=125, ISO=auto
HERO5_ProtuneFlat2.7k60pLinear: WB=4800K, Shutter=auto, ISO=800

VEGASPro22 + XMediaRecode/Handbrake + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 
K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback on PC) 

walter-i. wrote on 11/8/2020, 6:52 AM

Do you have enable snapping highlighted (on)?

@andyrpsmith

Good point - but that's selected by default for me.


 

andyrpsmith wrote on 11/8/2020, 6:57 AM

When I grabbed your three clips from the media window and dropped them on the timeline there were no gaps. But from your screenshot you were grabbing a whole bunch of clips so maybe it does it with many more than 3?

(Intel 3rd gen i5@4.1GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, 1080Ti GPU, Windows 10) Not now used with Vegas.

13th gen i913900K - water cooled, 96GB RAM, 4TB M2 drive, 4TB games SSD, 2TB video SSD, GPU RTX 4080 Super, Windows 11 pro

walter-i. wrote on 11/8/2020, 7:12 AM

But from your screenshot you were grabbing a whole bunch of clips so maybe it does it with many more than 3?

I don't quite understand your question - maybe you just skipped over my note:
"The files are loaded and most of them are lined up with no gaps, but there are 3 gaps between the 10 files."
Otherwise, please formulate the question a little differently.

PS:
I have now tried 50 files and there were 20 gaps.

VEGASHeman wrote on 11/12/2020, 9:33 AM

@walter-i.: We have been able to reproduce the problem, and are currently investigating it. It does seem to occur more often when hardware decoding is enabled; switching that to Off seems to help (or at least make it harder to run into this problem), but we are still in the early stages of our investigation. I will post my findings and possible workarounds/solutions.

walter-i. wrote on 11/12/2020, 10:28 AM

@VEGASHeman
Thanks for the info and the willingness to help - I'm curious about the result.

walter-i. wrote on 11/23/2020, 9:34 AM

@walter-i.: We have been able to reproduce the problem, and are currently investigating it. It does seem to occur more often when hardware decoding is enabled; switching that to Off seems to help (or at least make it harder to run into this problem), but we are still in the early stages of our investigation. I will post my findings and possible workarounds/solutions.

@VEGASHeman
Are there any results from your investigations?

I continue to experience several times a day that the computer freezes without being able to send you an error log of it.

VEGASHeman wrote on 11/24/2020, 5:54 PM

@walter-i.: Further testing seems to indicate that the problem is not really specific to the media, or the choice of the decoder. If I remove all of the Color Grading FX from the supplied project, I do not run into the freeze problems. This seems to indicate that the slowdown caused by some of these FX results in the Engine trying to "jump ahead", and request future frames from the decoder while the previous frame requests have yet to be satisfied. This in turn causes the decoder(s) to eventually end up in a freeze state - we are looking at options to work around this. However, none of the above is 100% reproducible - while I am at times able to run the project as supplied (i.e. with the CG FX) without issues, I have not got a single freeze with the FX removed, even with runs of 2-3 hours.

Also, I made sure the computer monitors or peripherals would not go to sleep, as the brief OS/hardware activity required on wakeup seems to create more chances of a freeze (though I am not sure if this is applicable in your situation). The same holds true if VEGAS is moved to the background, and there are other applicationn/processes which take up more CPU/GPU time.

In the meantime, could you try the same experiment as me and see if you get the same results (i.e. remove all of the Color Grading FX from the video events, and run the project in a loop for a while)?