Vegas Pro 18 build 527 not fully using GPU

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 7/27/2021, 11:15 PM

A bit off-topic:

Recently I was told that FFMpeg QSV h264 and FFMpeg CPU x264 produces about the same quality on the same bitrate.

I did not believe and so I tested it myself. I was shocked as my results are the same: QSV is much faster and quality is very similar (compared with PSNR/SSIM/VMAF metrics and frame by frame pixel peeping).

Noticed the same thing myself with qsv... been avoiding it for years but it seems to have improved lately. Guessing the drivers have gotten better.

fifonik wrote on 7/28/2021, 3:17 AM

Guessing the drivers have gotten better.

Intel drivers on laptop I used for tests were quite old.

My bet -- different programs supplying to HW encoder different parameters and only FFMpeg do the job well :)

Richard-Green wrote on 7/28/2021, 4:20 AM

@Former user I'm uploading the clip I've been experimenting with. It's just a GoPro clip, nothing special, GoPro footage is what I use. I'll post the link as soon as it's uploaded. I don't mind anyone on here using it to compare with what I'm getting. I feel I might be getting out of my depth a little at the moment. The question seemed a simple one and thought at the time it might be just a question of various settings. It seems it goes much deeper than that. I'm still puzzled as to why there is a huge difference in rendering times between the two programs on the same hardware. I'm in the UK by the way, so delays are possible for those who are not. File now uploaded https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mhy4rKk9R24j-kgxvlNBaEAs8VikQv1H/view?usp=sharing

Richard-Green wrote on 7/28/2021, 4:28 AM

@RogerS a screen grab of task manager.

RogerS wrote on 7/28/2021, 5:53 AM

Very interesting. It's maxing out encode at 99% consistently and has 40%+ decode and 47% 3D. Looks really optimized. It's not the hardware it's the approach to GPU utilization and software architecture that makes a difference.

Have you done a test with a file other than GoPro?

Your Drive clip requires access permission, by the way.

Richard-Green wrote on 7/28/2021, 6:28 AM

@RogerS no not done a test on other source clips, I've stuck with this one to avoid confusion. Can you check to see if you can now download the Drive clip please. Thanks

RogerS wrote on 7/28/2021, 8:01 AM

I can download the clip now. Very large file so it might take some time.

RogerS wrote on 7/28/2021, 8:34 AM

Using MagixAVC with a matching 59p NVENC preset and default settings it's going to take ~10 min. to finish. As is normal for Vegas very spiky CPU activity and GPU encoding utilization is ~30%. The Intel iGPU is doing the decoding so that doesn't show up in the NVIDIA graph.

Voukoder maxes out the CPU and still has the NVIDIA encoder at about 30% active.

So it looks like Vegas isn't able to offload as much activity to the GPU as Resolve and is slower as a result.

Richard-Green wrote on 7/28/2021, 9:08 AM

@RogerS Thanks for that, your results are very similar to mine. 10 mins via the Magix H264 and about 8 mins using Voukoder. Still don't know why though.

RogerS wrote on 7/28/2021, 9:30 AM

For a point of comparison, Vegas Effects which has much lower GPU usage than Vegas or Resolve for decode and 3D for render. It doesn't use GPU encoding as far as I can tell, probably to preserve quality. It should take ~30 min. to render this file as a 1080p60 AVC mp4 file.

JN- wrote on 7/28/2021, 9:55 AM

@fifonik

“A bit off-topic:

Recently I was told that FFMpeg QSV h264 and FFMpeg CPU x264 produces about the same quality on the same bitrate.”

Thats good news, thanks.

I can confirm that with my testing. I don’t have a previous Qsv ffmpeg based test, only the VP MC one. I’ve updated my FHD table, via my signature with an extra item 20 QSV ffmpeg.

RogerS wrote on 7/28/2021, 10:03 AM

Last test: Handbrake. Really high usage of both GPUs and was fast enough that I actually finished the render instead of estimating it based on progress rendering a portion.

It completed in 3 min.

Richard-Green wrote on 7/28/2021, 10:32 AM

@RogerS I just remembered I also have the full latest version of Cyberlink Power Director. So, setup to render the clip and it did the render in 2 minutes 22 seconds. Same bitrate etc. Task manager showed full utilization of GPU just like Resolve.

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Richard\Desktop\Produce_0.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (MSNV/isom/mp42)
File size                                : 3.30 GiB
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Overall bit rate                         : 40.0 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-07-28 15:18:53
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-07-28 15:18:53

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=13
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Source duration                          : 11 min 47 s
Bit rate                                 : 39.7 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.319
Stream size                              : 3.27 GiB (99%)
Source stream size                       : 3.27 GiB (99%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-07-28 15:18:53
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-07-28 15:18:53
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
mdhd_Duration                            : 707706
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Source duration                          : 11 min 47 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 384 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 32.4 MiB (1%)
Source stream size                       : 32.4 MiB (1%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-07-28 15:18:53
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-07-28 15:18:53
mdhd_Duration                            : 707711

john_dennis wrote on 7/28/2021, 11:07 AM

My superfluous post instead of scanning negatives that have no flash sync.

I rendered to my oft-used Vegas internal template on the hardware in About Me.

Render Template

Results

Output File Properties

General
Complete name                            : E:\Delete Me.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 2.33 GiB
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 28.3 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-07-28 15:23:53
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-07-28 15:23:53

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Main@L4.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=15
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Bit rate                                 : 28.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Standard                                 : Component
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.225
Stream size                              : 2.31 GiB (99%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-07-28 15:23:53
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-07-28 15:23:53
Color range                              : Limited
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 317 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 427 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 26.8 MiB (1%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-07-28 15:23:53
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-07-28 15:23:53

Disclaimer

I considered flipping the video on the Y axis for those on this side of the pond. I didn't.
The difference in time to render doesn't upset me because I often take a walk when I render.
My hardware is a sunk cost and won't be changing in the near term due to market forces larger than my interests. Besides, I have other stuff to do.
If I stay equally bored, I may do this on my Intel-based laptop when the temperature gets over 100 degrees F later today.

Richard-Green wrote on 7/28/2021, 11:36 AM

@john_dennis Hi, thanks for taking the time to comment. Yes, that looks about what I'm getting, around 10 to 12 minutes. Although I think you have rendered at 28Mbs while I'm rendering at 40Mbs, so that might slow you down a bit. The mystery is that I now have two editors which can do the render at just over 2 minutes, so somewhere Vegas is slowing the job down. 😞

JN- wrote on 7/28/2021, 11:51 AM

@Richard-Green And you've confirmed that the quality output is the same? or are you content with eyeballing it?

If so, then without taking quality into account and matching the output this whole thread is an Apples to Oranges comparison

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 7/28/2021, 11:53 AM

@Richard-Green Just downloaded and did a transcode on my laptop (1050ti, 32 gb ram, Intel decode) hevc to Magix avc... took 9 minutes and gpu utilization for nvenc encode was around 30% though it bounced around a bit. Took 9:37 with nvidia decode. Same 40 mbps max/min bit rate. Looking at your task manager charts it looks like you only have 8gb ram but that Resolve used 74%. Resolve seems to be doing a better job of buffering the input file and keeping the encoder fed. Vegas specs call for more ram than that but Vegas doesn't seem to use it nearly as well. Will take it upstairs to my other machine and see how that one does. Btw, enjoyed the ride. Reet champion.

Richard-Green wrote on 7/28/2021, 12:18 PM

@Howard-Vigorita Thanks, RogerS further up this thread has 32gb ram and gets the same results as me, so my 8gb of ram doesn't seem to be an issue in this instance. Incidentally Minimum memory is 8gb, 16gb recommended and 32gb for 4K, I don't do 4K. Puzzled why you transcoded with hevc. Pleased you enjoyed the ride. 🙂

Richard-Green wrote on 7/28/2021, 12:25 PM

@JN- I am quite happy with the quality of both Resolve, Director and Vegas. In fact if I mixed all four clips up I doubt you would be able to tell the difference when viewing. Please feel free to download the original clip and do whatever you think might be constructive with it.

john_dennis wrote on 7/28/2021, 12:52 PM

@Richard-Green

"...you have rendered at 28Mbs while I'm rendering at 40Mbs..."

I learned from watching the previous render that, at 28Mbps, there are blocking artifacts in the sky. I suspect the "solid" portions of the picture is being bit-starved to accommodate the motion in the foreground.

I rendered using Happy Otter Scripts Render Plus to drive the VCE encoder and it was much faster with the same hardware resources.

At CRF 18 the bit rate was somewhat over the top at 148 Mbps, though.

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\John\Desktop\Render\RPlus VCE CQ18.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (mp42/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 12.2 GiB
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Overall bit rate                         : 148 Mb/s
Writing application                      : VCEEnc (x64) 6.11

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 2 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Bit rate                                 : 148 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Standard                                 : Component
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 1.192
Stream size                              : 12.2 GiB (100%)
Color range                              : Limited
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Duration_LastFrame                       : -5 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 323 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 27.2 MiB (0%)
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1

As you can see, I'm having a hard time getting back to my real job.

JN- wrote on 7/28/2021, 12:53 PM

@Richard-Green Hi Richard, the original clip is of no use to me without the rendered out Resolve clip + the time taken to render out the resolve clip. I cannot render out the resolve clip as I only have VP.

If you can also supply the resolve clip via a download link then I can render out a similar clip from VP and supply the Render Quality Metrics. But I will be using a different machine than yours to do this.

Ideally what would be still better is if you made available all three clips, the Original source clip, the Resolve clip and the VP clip.

Richard-Green wrote on 7/28/2021, 2:04 PM

@JN- Hi, bare with me, my google drive is full, so trying another file sharing site. I'll supply the link as soon as they have uploaded. Thanks.

JN- wrote on 7/28/2021, 2:10 PM

@Richard-Green Ok, i've already downloaded the source file.

Richard-Green wrote on 7/28/2021, 2:18 PM

@john_dennis Thanks, if you just render the original clip at 40mb/s the file size should be around the same size as the original. If you can do that and then make a note of the time it took to render, 40mb/s is sufficient to get rid of artefacts from the sky etc. Anything over 40 is overkill and makes the file too big.