Vegas Pro 18 build 527 not fully using GPU

RogerS wrote on 7/26/2021, 7:31 PM

Totally different architecture. You can try Voukoder to squeeze a bit more performance out of Vegas: voukoder.org/

Musicvid wrote on 7/26/2021, 9:55 PM

To make a fairer comparison. we need to see MediaInfo reports for both output files.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

Richard-Green wrote on 7/27/2021, 6:08 AM

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Richard\Documents\Vegas\18.0\vegas.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 3.31 GiB
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 40.2 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-07-27 10:42:37
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-07-27 10:42:37

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=30
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Bit rate                                 : 40.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.322
Stream size                              : 3.30 GiB (100%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-07-27 10:42:38
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-07-27 10:42:38
Color range                              : Limited
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 371 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 16.0 MiB (0%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-07-27 10:42:38
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-07-27 10:42:38

The Vegas mp4 took 9:33 mins to Render

The Davinci mp4 took 2:35 mins to Render

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Richard\Videos\BIKE TO SCUNNY\davinci.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 3.31 GiB
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Overall bit rate                         : 40.2 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-07-27 10:32:17
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-07-27 10:32:17
Writing application                      : Lavf58.45.100

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=12
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Bit rate                                 : 40.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.322
Stream size                              : 3.30 GiB (99%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-07-27 10:32:17
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-07-27 10:32:17
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Duration_LastFrame                       : -5 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 16.5 MiB (0%)
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-07-27 10:32:17
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-07-27 10:32:17

Other
ID                                       : 3
Type                                     : Time code
Format                                   : QuickTime TC
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame                 : 01:00:00:00
Time code, striped                       : Yes
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-07-27 10:32:17
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-07-27 10:32:17

Source Clip Media Info

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Richard\Videos\BIKE TO SCUNNY\GH010038.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 1
Codec ID                                 : mp41 (mp41)
File size                                : 3.73 GiB
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 45.3 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-06-07 10:42:50
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-06-07 10:42:50

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=30
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 45.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.362
Stream size                              : 3.71 GiB (99%)
Title                                    : GoPro AVC  
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-06-07 10:42:50
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-06-07 10:42:50
Color range                              : Limited
colour_range_Original                    : Full
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Nominal bit rate                         : 48.0 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 16.0 MiB (0%)
Title                                    : GoPro AAC  
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-06-07 10:42:50
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-06-07 10:42:50

Other #1
ID                                       : 3
Type                                     : Time code
Format                                   : QuickTime TC
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame                 : 10:53:04:48
Time code, striped                       : Yes
Title                                    : GoPro TCD  
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-06-07 10:42:50
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-06-07 10:42:50

Other #2
Type                                     : meta
Duration                                 : 11 min 47 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable

Other #3
Type                                     : meta
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
mdhd_Duration                            : 707707

j-v wrote on 7/27/2021, 6:50 AM

With me on laptop VP18 renders such a 10 min. file to H264 with help of NVENC in 4 min 48 sec.
Use of NVidia RTX 2070 with driver DHC 471.11 was steady 39%

Richard-Green wrote on 7/27/2021, 7:25 AM

Twice as quick as mine, but twice as long as Davinci

Musicvid wrote on 7/27/2021, 7:54 AM

I suspect the Vegas encode did, in fact, revert to a software encoder.

Richard-Green wrote on 7/27/2021, 8:04 AM

How do you come to that conclusion? And why would it, if it did?

Musicvid wrote on 7/27/2021, 8:10 AM

For the first part, the writing library tag is missing, for the second, it's part of your discovery process.

And yes, I may be mistaken.

RogerS wrote on 7/27/2021, 8:21 AM

One way to determine would be to do a Mainconcept Magix AVC render then give it a break to cool down and do a NVENC one and compare render times. Also watch performance monitor for video encode in task manager/performance.

Richard-Green wrote on 7/27/2021, 8:55 AM

Yes, done that. Around 45 to 50mins. 2% GPU usage. Marginally better using Voukoder. 7mins render time. Nowhere close to Davinci.

RogerS wrote on 7/27/2021, 9:13 AM

Nice, well you have your answer then for how Vegas works for this type of render vs Resolve.

JN- wrote on 7/27/2021, 9:24 AM

@Richard-Green You are getting a ~ 5x improvement using Nvenc vs CPU only encoding. Reslove uses it’s architecture in a different way to VP. It may be faster, but without a quality comparison of the two output files from both systems there is no way of knowing if Resolve is equally good.

HW encoding in VP uses the on GPU Asic, so looking at the TM output may not be telling you everything, in other words, is TM displaying the Asic chips usage combined with the Gpu, possibly not.

Since you have access to both software, if you’re interested, maybe supply a source file plus two rendered out files from VP and Resolve. I will then compare the quality, you can also do it yourself using @fifonik's util.

Its only relevant to talk about encoding speed comparisons where the quality + file size and data rates are close to equal. It may well be in this case, but it needs to be confirmed. If confirmed then we know that Resolve is simply faster, for the same quality output.

If you do decide to do this, then ideally use a single avc clip, preferably less than 30 seconds, no FX, and output to avc h264 giving as close as possible, on disc, the same file sizes and data rates. Obviously output frame size and fps should be the same.

Richard-Green wrote on 7/27/2021, 9:27 AM

No, not an answer. The question was. Why isn't Vegas using my GPU as much as it should be?

JN- wrote on 7/27/2021, 9:41 AM

@Richard-Green I don’t want to get into an argument about this, mainly because I don’t know everything by far, about how the two different systems encode when using Nvenc.

I did attempt, see my above post, to give you that answer by speculating that the TM readout may not be displaying the Asics output, only the Gpu, in VP.

I do understand that you are happy with your conclusions so far, so don’t wish to look further.

Richard-Green wrote on 7/27/2021, 10:01 AM

My comment above your last comment was meant for the guy previous not you. You sneaked in before I posted. Thank you for your information, I will look into what you have said. I personally can't see any difference in quality between the two renders, which obviously doesn't mean to say there isn't any. So yes a side by side test would be good. You didn't mention what the utility was called, I wouldn't mind trying it myself. What I would like to know is why there is such a huge difference in rendering times using the same hardware. I will continue to investigate. Thanks for your help.

JN- wrote on 7/27/2021, 10:05 AM

@Richard-Green Understood. https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/ffmetrics-yet-another-program-for-quality-metrics-calculation--122246/

And @wwaag's Render Quality Metrics here … https://tools4vegas.com/library/

“What I would like to know is why there is such a huge difference in rendering times using the same hardware”

I think Resolve utilises GPU'S differently, more fully than VP. It can use more than one. If you do do the quality comparisons then maybe update here, it would be nice to know.

JN- wrote on 7/27/2021, 10:28 AM

@Richard-Green Just a few more thoughts on doing the quality comparisons.

If the quality PSNR SSIM and VMAF are pretty close then done deal.

If theres a good bit of difference then heres what I would do. I would start outputting a slightly larger file size and data rate file (for the lower quality file) until I got it very close in SSIM etc to the other file. Then the increased file size and data rates can be used to give a rough % difference in quality, as can of course the initial % SSIM etc differences when the file sizes and data rates were very similar.

adis-a3097 wrote on 7/27/2021, 10:34 AM

No, not an answer. The question was. Why isn't Vegas using my GPU as much as it should be?

Plurium interrogationum, eh?

This is why: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 7/27/2021, 1:43 PM

As an fyi, the Resolve rendered clip above bears the signature of the ffmpeg application... probably the result of Resolve embedding ffmpeg libs:

Writing application                      : Lavf58.45.100

Voukouder also has options to render with x264 ffmpeg lib. So if you really want an apples to apples transcoding performance or quality comparisons, compare those 2. If you do that, you'll see that the x264 lib is pretty slow (cpu-only encode) and the only quality variation you might see would probably flow from unintended internal range transformations happening under the covers in Vegas which you need to be aware of. I think the Voukouder NVenc and AMD specific presets probably use the ffmpeg accelerated libs which are quicker and more comparable quality-wise to those in the Magix presets. There might also be small variations depending on the embedded ffmpeg lib version... Unfortunately, Voukouder doesn't report the lib version in its metadata but the renders seem pretty close to what I get when I do a manual transcode with a recent ffmpeg update. The version listed by Resolve above is pretty old. The ffmpeg I have loaded right now is probably about 3 months old and reports this in metadata:

Lavf59.2.102

Btw, generally using Vegas and Voukouder together will yield quicker results on AMD gpu platforms because its AMD gpu implementation is self-developed with better support from AMD and thus more advanced than ffmpeg's. Also the free version of Resolve cannot use Intel decoding or encoding together with any pcie GPU... you have to buy their Studio edition to get that. Where ffmpeg libs seem to excel is in their Nvidia and Intel implementations... I think because both of those companies devote more resources to supporting the open-source community.

Richard-Green wrote on 7/27/2021, 3:29 PM

@Howard-Vigorita Thank you, I will try Voukoder again as you advised. I have Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB GPU and also Resolve Studio.

Richard-Green wrote on 7/27/2021, 4:30 PM

@Howard-Vigorita I've just run an 11 minute render through voukoder using nvenc it rendered in 9 minutes GPU use was 28% rendered at 40mb/s. Same clip in resolve 2 minutes 34 seconds. GPU 98%

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 7/27/2021, 5:53 PM

@Richard-Green Any chance you can throw the source clip onto a cloud drive? Like to try it myself with Vegas. Might eliminate Vegas config issues as suspects. One of my machines has a 1660 and my laptop has a 1050ti. Don't have Resolve studio, however. Just the free version. Btw, don't think I've ever seen 98% gpu utilization myself.

Also, don't see the MediaInfo for your source clip. Might be a clue there.

fifonik wrote on 7/27/2021, 10:06 PM

A bit off-topic:

Recently I was told that FFMpeg QSV h264 and FFMpeg CPU x264 produces about the same quality on the same bitrate.

I did not believe and so I tested it myself. I was shocked as my results are the same: QSV is much faster and quality is very similar (compared with PSNR/SSIM/VMAF metrics and frame by frame pixel peeping).

Did the same for AMD GPU and quality was worse (this is predictable as the GPU I used does not create B-frames).

You should expect similar results rendering through Voukoder.

When I did similar comparison and rendering from VP long time ago (using MagixAVC encoder), QSV was faster, but quality wise it was much worse.

RogerS wrote on 7/27/2021, 10:18 PM

Can you share a screenshot of the GPU utilization from performance (control/alt/delete and then go to task manager then performance and scroll down to your GPU)? I'd like to see activity for encoding, decoding, 3D, etc. A single number for the GPU isn't so meaningful.