Yeap, that's it. @Former user spot on.

It is true in my case, I do not know about anyone else. For sure Vegas can improve and will improve GPU load. It is just that Resolve and probably others have already did it and that makes Vegas feel slow behind. I also believe that v18 will address this. They better do!

On the other hand, this issue it happens only when it comes about 4k footage. For FHD, Vegas is doing reasonably ok.

I noticed this - in a completely unscientific way, that with my Lumix FHD files Vegas does better than with Canon FHD files, but when I throw 4k Lumix files has difficulties. It seems .mp4 file that are above 50mbps are slower or more difficult to process/preview/render. That seems to be like a threshold for me.

With resolve they are all equally smooth.

That's of course, only on my system.

Everything .mov works in the free version of Resolve, but it is a struggle to get those containers working in Vegas.

It is true in my case, I do not know about anyone else. For sure Vegas can improve and will improve GPU load. It is just that Resolve and probably others have already did it and that makes Vegas feel slow behind. I also believe that v18 will address this. They better do!

Hope. But some people hoped in the past same.

I was curious how Vegas compared to Resolve playing a 2-clip hevc picture-in picture timeline and then rendering it to a full hd 1080p mp4. Used a pair of 5-minite clips I shot in my yard. They both played it no problem w/o proxies and rendered in almost the same amount of time to very similarly sized mp4 files. Used my 9900k/Radeon VII system. I'm not as proficient with Resolve but I was able to do the pip by manipulating their inspector which seems a bit like Vegas' crop. I couldn't figure out how to get it to report the render time so I just used the Win10 stopwatch. Here's a screen shot of Resolve showing the render time of 6:20.01 on the stopwatch...

In Vegas I used its pip-fx because I like it better. No other fx except the camera lut attached to both media in both Vegas and Resolve. Used the Magix-avc AMD-VCE preset set to it's defaults with the bitrate matched in Resolve using their custom render setup. Here's the Vegas render screen shot showing a render time of 6:16:

Used the free 16.2.3 version of Resolve and it's set to use my Radeon VII in opencl mode but does not see the Intel hd630 which my Vegas 17 build 452 is set to use for decoding. Btw, looks like the preview screen is darker in Resolve... they seem to be defaulting to limited range preview levels which Vegas can replicate if the SeMW extension is set to 'PC' instead of 'Original'.

Thanks for the test, Howard.

For me, the rendering time I can adjust to... I am not terribly bothered by 10-20% efficiency plus or minus.

The most important for me is how smooth and stable the editing/preview is.

And in my tests, DaVinci is doing better. With FHD, the difference is minimal. For 4K, it is obvious.

@Howard-Vigorita thanks for the comparison, but it's a little unfair cause your comparing a fully unlocked software vs not.

I am using them both & I love them, I have the Resolve studio version & it renders faster against Vegas & it also decodes HEVC.

@Howard-Vigorita thanks for the comparison, but it's a little unfair cause your comparing a fully unlocked software vs not.

I am using them both & I love them, I have the Resolve studio version & it renders faster against Vegas & it also decodes HEVC.

I also own both and have use both depends on project. However I preferred to use Vegas on a complex project because I know my way around better then in Resolve. Vegas are getting better and improved but in no way that Vegas can match the TL/rendering performance in Resolve. Don't take my word for it. If you do a search on the issue, there are thousand of people will telling you so.

38s clip 4K 60P GH5 straight to the VP 17 4K 60P TL and render out to 4K 60P VCE took 54s to finish.

38s clip 4K 60P GH5 straight to the Davinci Resolve studio 16 4K 60P TL render out to 4K 60P VCE took 45s.

This test is on 1950X 16 cores with Frontier Edition card. Old system still kicking ass here.

"but in no way that Vegas can match the TL/rendering performance in Resolve. "

Wait a minute, don't they call Vegas, "The fastest NLE" ?

Fast editing is not equal to smooth playback or fast rendering. It's the overall process.

Smooth timeline playback is important. Saving a few moments rendering, not so much for me.

I'll second what @Reyfox said. I'd rather have fast/accurate previewing first and fast rendering second. I can do something else with my comp while vp renders.

+1. Which implies that having a really good caching / pre-render system is of paramount importance!

This is an area IMO that has been ignored in Vegas in favor of developing other features, and has now become a kind of "road block" problem that is getting worse as expectations rise for more resolution and higher frame rates.

"but in no way that Vegas can match the TL/rendering performance in Resolve. "

Wait a minute, don't they call Vegas, "The fastest NLE" ?

It is advertising marketing terms. Don't be so trusting.

Actually, even Vegas' crash can already make it non-fastest. Crash need lots of time to restart.

@lan-mLMC Yes, yes, we all know that. :) But the question for you is... what should be done to improve the situation?

@lan-mLMC Yes, yes, we all know that. :) But the question for you is... what should be done to improve the situation?

I think it is too hard for current vegas team to do it. Even sony creative team can't do it. Only top-level professional software firm (Adobe, borisFX and so on) or rich firm (Apple, blackdesign and so on) can do it.

do you notice particle illusion？ After borisfx purchased it, they make it several even dozens times as power as before. This is what Vegas need. But current team still can't do that. Vegas users should prepare for it mentally.

@lan-mLMC

I'm still laughing!

So, Magix' Vegas team is not a professional software development team; they must be unpaid amateurs. Real professionals from Adobe would be able to upgrade Vegas' core in no time. Etc.

Wow!

@john-brown Hello, Maybe we have different professional approval standards in different contexts. Magix Vegas team is indeed professional software team relatively to you or some smaller firms but not professional enough to top-level professional software teams.

That is to say, Magix or Vegas Team don't have a top-level product like Photoshop, Audition, FL Studio, AVID, After Effects, FCPX, Cinema 4D, 3D max, Sapphire, Silhouette,  Red Giant Trapcode, and so on. All its products' features have a far distance from mainstream software products' and take up rather small market shares.

Magix Vegas Pro may be the most popular software of Magix, but it is still not be recognized by film-television industry. Most companies need person familiar with Premiere, AVID, Resolve, FCPX, Edius, but not Magix Vegas Pro, let alone Magix Video Pro X.

So that's why I think current Vegas Team can't upgrade Vegas' core revolutionarily in former context.

And almost all the core features of Vegas are finished by sony creative software, including parent-child track, composite mode, OFX support, pan/crop/mask, trimmer, 3D track motion, track FX, Media FX, output FX, plugin organizing and preview, editing tools, VST support, Audio event FX, Audio output FX, Video Preview window engine, all kinds of track envolops, media generator feature, transition FX feature, multicam editing, S key to split, everywhere-click timeline and so on..

Even sony creative software isn't able to keep Vegas' core upgrading revolutionarily let alone current team.

Actually the most core-relevant features finished by current team are re-skin black Vegas, dockable window, color grading panel and some others.

In addition to these, there is no core-relevant upgrading. No new composite mode, No preview-window-interaction 3D track motion, No preview-window-interaction pan/crop/mask, No besier keyfram graph, No preview-window-interaction OFX overlay controls, No VST3 support, No adjustment layer, ....

+1. Which implies that having a really good caching / pre-render system is of paramount importance!

This is an area IMO that has been ignored in Vegas in favor of developing other features, and has now become a kind of "road block"

Nice to see usernames familiar here from Resolve @Kinvermark

Yep, I love this background caching/prerender in Resolve, this is the one that beats the fast TL manipulation of Vegas to me, layers of fx in Vegas slows me down sometime in editing. While in Resolve it keeps the TL smooth even layers of nodes or chains of OFX because of the prerendering, even in my intel/amd set up which I use Sapphire fx which only accelerated by cuda, when that fx is cached then back to buttery smooth playback.

Vegas pre-rendering needs an overhaul something like FCP or Resolve to pair its capable & fast TL manipulation. Aside from the benefit of faster playback (w/ plenty of fx applied) this cached files helps to a faster exporting cause the previews are generated already & will be access instead of drawing another cpu/gpu power. So it is twice the benefit there when Vegas have this.

And almost all the core features of Vegas are finished by sony creative software, including parent-child track, composite mode, OFX support, pan/crop/mask, trimmer, 3D track motion, track FX, Media FX, output FX, plugin organizing and preview, editing tools, VST support, Audio event FX, Audio output FX, Video Preview window engine, all kinds of track envolops, media generator feature, transition FX feature, multicam editing, S key to split, everywhere-click timeline and so on..

Even sony creative software isn't able to keep Vegas' core upgrading revolutionarily let alone current team.

Actually the most core-relevant features finished by current team are re-skin black Vegas, dockable window, color grading panel and some others.

In addition to these, there is no core-relevant upgrading. No new composite mode, No preview-window-interaction 3D track motion, No preview-window-interaction pan/crop/mask, No besier keyfram graph, No preview-window-interaction OFX overlay controls, No VST3 support, No adjustment layer, ....

Some others... like motion tracking, optical flow slomo, mesh warping, GPU decoding, HDR support, HDR scopes and grading, HDR support that doesn't require special hardware to get an external monitor preview (the industry leader in this regard), MaxFALL and MAXCLL input capability, HDR metadata specification, the first NLE to allow you to render HDR from within the app natively, storyboarding, stabilization... I've listed almost as many features here as you included from before VEGAS Creative Software took over, and all of these things are what you could consider "core relevant" features (maybe not mesh warp, but it is still a very useful feature).

Many of the new features may not stand out to you because you aren't using them yet, but the HDR work VCS has put in under the hood alone is revolutionary, and it is preparing Vegas to lead the way into the future as more and more HDR sets get sold and more and more customers will be demanding HDR content.

And is it really necessary to create yet ANOTHER thread to kick at this dead horse?

Yes, it is unfortunate that some forum members keep playing the rabid negativity card over and over. But I think a supportive/positive discussion is crucial to Vegas' future success.

The reality is that it is a very competitive marketplace, and while the dev team has added a lot of new and interesting features, the software as a whole isn't quite coming together IMO. Makes me wonder if the team is biting off a bit more than they can chew.

To use a metaphor - perhaps pruning some branches would lead to a stronger tree.

Some others... like motion tracking, optical flow slomo, mesh warping, GPU decoding, HDR support, HDR scopes and grading, HDR support that doesn't require special hardware to get an external monitor preview (the industry leader in this regard), MaxFALL and MAXCLL input capability, HDR metadata specification, the first NLE to allow you to render HDR from within the app natively, storyboarding, stabilization... I've listed almost as many features here as you included from before VEGAS Creative Software took over, and all of these things are what you could consider "core relevant" features (maybe not mesh warp, but it is still a very useful feature).

Many of the new features may not stand out to you because you aren't using them yet, but the HDR work VCS has put in under the hood alone is revolutionary, and it is preparing Vegas to lead the way into the future as more and more HDR sets get sold and more and more customers will be demanding HDR content.

And is it really necessary to create yet ANOTHER thread to kick at this dead horse?

@fr0sty Hello, Some supports related to HDR is indeed core-relevant which I overlooked, maybe it is because I focus more on Vegas' VFX and editing feature instead of camera metedata footage importing and editing such as HDR and so on.

Motion tracking is also a semi-finished core-relevant feature. Core-relevant is because that it indeed generate position keyframe and we can apply these keyframe to other events; Semi-finished is because generated keyframes don't have a UI in besier maks FX to apply to other events, and the position which is applied keyframe to is PIP OFX instead of  pan/crop, it indicate that they aren't able to improve existing pan/crop. PIP is just a OFX filter, but pan/crop is the direct attribute of events. They should improve the direct attribute rather than develop a OFX filter to patch up. So, motion tracking in VEGAS Pro is just that a OFX generate some keyframes, then add a PIP OFX to another event, finally use a script to copy keyframes to the PIP OFX. This is so fragmented, time-consuming and semi-finished compared to other softwares.

As to hardware acceleration, actually, it is so crashable. I dare say 2 or 3 of 10 Vegas users possibly turn it off to prevent from rather a part of crashing. Yes, my hardware acceleration is almost always turned off, because there are too many agnogenic crash.

As to optical flow slow motion, mesh warp, they are all just OFX filter and the resault is also not so good. Optical flow is just a OFX (which I think supposed to be plugin companies' work) instead of integrated with velocity. And actually optical flow slow motion OFX 's resault is worse than BCC optical flow, Twixtor, Sapphire Retime. This can't be called Core-relevant revolutionarily too.

Mesh warping is also just a OFX filter with low practicability. You may use it to slim a woman but woman is motional and you need to make keyframe in every frame, and the final resault is surely worse; In Image deformation, Mesh warp's point can't drive ambient points to move, so its warp resault is not natural. Ignite puppet tool do better than Mesh warp in point warping. This can't be called Core-relevant revolutionarily too.

What they should do is not develop a Semi-finished OFX, developing OFX is the work of plugin companies. Current OFX only act on a frame and can't act on other feature of VEGAS Pro. Event FX even can't access other track's events.

They are supposed to improve more direct feature. Such as improving pan/crop/mask, 3d track motion, preview window interaction, optical flow velocity, composite mode, adjustment layer, keyframe system, making event length adjusting length automatically, multi-timeline, make OFX interacting with other OFX's keyframe and so on...