Comments

BruceUSA wrote on 5/1/2019, 6:12 PM

JN. That is good. I am glad that some one able to matched it and a hair better. ;).

Ps. Without that AMD card he will never made it.

BruceUSA wrote on 5/1/2019, 6:20 PM

Now the question is will the 5.1ghz capable do big editing project and stable? Day in and day out?. As its stands mine is working computer, for everything day in and day out.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 5/1/2019, 6:29 PM

One thing I couldn't help noticing was how much the Radeon7 stood out from the crowd in the LUT test. I think it's probably pretty much the same as the Vega64 but in a smaller dye that should let it cool more efficiently. I've played with a Vega bios a bit and noticed it basically uses temperature limits to dynamically auto tune gpu voltage and clocking so I'd expect more efficient cooling to boost performance. I'm probably a little late to the party but after reading that article I only just now installed the free OFX 3D LUT Creator plugin for the first time and it looks quite interesting... wonder why Magix left it out from all the other OFX effects it supplies with Vegas. Puts Vegas right on par with Da Vinci color tuning. Looking forward to getting my hands on a Radeon7 to go with it. Btw, I get 25 sec on the red-car with an air cooled rx580.

IAM4UK wrote on 5/1/2019, 6:48 PM

Very happy I got the Vega 64 Frontier Edition...

TheRhino wrote on 5/1/2019, 6:49 PM

I'm using my 9900K for daily paid work, so I plan to keep it at a safe & quiet 5.0ghz. Even though it manages 5.1ghz without risky voltage or temp increases my radiator fans spin-up & my system is no longer quiet... Since the GPU is also liquid-cooled & I have M.2 drives, this system is dead-quiet at 5.0 ghz...

I keep seeing deals for Vega 56 & 64 since VII is here & Navi is arriving shortly. I got a Vega 64 liquid-cooled (refurbished) from Newegg for $350 USD. It shows no signs of dust or wear. IMO AMD is unloading the $300 - $400 range VEGA 56/64 to make room for NAVI while continuing to charge $700 US for the Radeon VII. So for the short-term, Vega 56/64 are a good bang/buck for us Vegas folks & they can be undervolted to save power...

Last changed by TheRhino on 5/1/2019, 6:56 PM, changed a total of 3 times.

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair i150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (QSV) in 13s-14s when clocked at 5.0 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 32TB RAID0--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID10 card

10G Network using cheap Mellanox2 Adapters
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A, B & C are 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

petecarney wrote on 5/1/2019, 11:14 PM

I have a 1950x threadripper, radeon 7 box I just built up and it's not in the ball park. 33 sec is the fastest red car test I've gotten with every driver and version of vp16 I can try out. It's head and shoulders above my older intel nvidia machine, but nothing like these numbers folks are posting here.

Cheers, Pete

bitman wrote on 5/2/2019, 1:35 AM

Now the question is will the 5.1ghz capable do big editing project and stable? Day in and day out?. As its stands mine is working computer, for everything day in and day out.

Well it depends, apart from proper BIOS tuning, cooling, etc.., it is also matter of which application you run, and which type of processor you have:

1) the processor: for Intel the newer 9900K has a soldered TIM versus previous generations which helps a lot to get the heat out properly, that is why it is officially (no overclock) can go (single core) to 5GHz. That is why I got 8700K handpicked and de-lidded and improved TIM CPU from der8auer, it is tested by der8auer to 5.1 GHz with upping to 1.38V. Not that I want to overclock, as I do not, it just helps to keep the heat down and the noise. My system is fully air-cooled.

2) AVX code instructions (in all it's variants), Intel is more performant with AVX than AMD, but it's a double bladed knife: if the application does not use it, you are not going to benefit from it. I am not sure if Vegas use it, maybe some external plugins do. I know Magix's sister NLE Video pro X likely make use of it as they advertise this on their product website to improve speed on color correction and image processing. But here is the caveat, it is impossible to run AVX without heat issues when the processor is overclocked. That is why in motherboards suitable for overclocking you have settings to automatically lower the overclock multiplier if AVX instructions are used. Kind of defeats the purpose of improved speed with AVX support, at least when overclocking.

Note: you can test your overclocked CPU if it can cope with AVX if you use the newer versions of Prime95: Prime95 AVX versions such as 29.4 as compared to Prime95 non-AVX version 26.6.

Last changed by bitman on 5/2/2019, 1:42 AM, changed a total of 3 times.

Current system: VP16 (suite) build 424, VP15 (suite) build 416, Magix Video Pro X (VPX11), Corel VS ultimate 2019, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Titler Pro 6, Mercalli 4.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 12, VASST stuff, Production Assistent pro3, Boris Continuum 2019,...

  • OS: Windows 10 Pro 64, version 1903
  • CPU: der8auer i7-8700K (advanced edition), default speed (no overclock), Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: G.Skill Trident Z 3200C14 DDR4 64GB, XMP set to profile 1 in BIOS
  • Videocard: NVIDEA RTX 2080Ti (Founders edition), NVIDEA studio drivers
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - yes upgraded from 34 to 38, I can see more tracks now! Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB 960 pro
  • Data storage: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7
  • PS: Corsair HX1200i, Case: Silverstone fortress 2, shuttlePROv2, Keyboard and mouse: Logitech G910 and G700s (and now Evoluent Vertical Mouse)

Before November 2018: NVIDEA Gibabyte GTX 1080ti

Before November 2017: windows 10 Pro 64, i7-4790k, mem: DDR3 16GB GTX TITAN X (Maxwell)

 

TheRhino wrote on 5/2/2019, 7:59 AM

I have a 1950x threadripper, radeon 7 box I just built up and it's not in the ball park. 33 sec is the fastest red car test I've gotten with every driver and version of vp16 I can try out. It's head and shoulders above my older intel nvidia machine, but nothing like these numbers folks are posting here.

Cheers, Pete

I've been building my own custom Intel & AMD systems for over 25 years & video editing workstations for over 15... A lot of factors can affect Vegas performance because it is so resource intensive. For my 9900K I had to re-install the Intel GPU drivers AFTER installing my Radeon Vega drivers so that both GPUs would show-up in Vegas. As soon as I did this my Intel QSV render times dropped significantly.

I also use CCleaner to remove Vegas, clear the registry, restart computer, and then reinstall Vegas after the new CPU, GPU, etc. drivers are added. Once I get my system where I want it, I turn-off Windows updates the best I can, create a full image backup of the OS drive, and then test to make sure it works on a new drive. I also do a full image backup before installing any new apps, codecs, hardware, etc. Work files are on a RAID10 with backups on a server...

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair i150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (QSV) in 13s-14s when clocked at 5.0 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 32TB RAID0--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID10 card

10G Network using cheap Mellanox2 Adapters
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A, B & C are 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

bitman wrote on 5/3/2019, 4:39 AM

I redid the 'red car' test on different DRAM settings on Vegas 16 and on Vegas 15, Vegas 15 renders 'red car' almost 30% faster than Vegas 16!

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/dynamic-ram-preview-max-and-how-it-affects-render-speeds-vp16--115616/#ca717068

Current system: VP16 (suite) build 424, VP15 (suite) build 416, Magix Video Pro X (VPX11), Corel VS ultimate 2019, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Titler Pro 6, Mercalli 4.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 12, VASST stuff, Production Assistent pro3, Boris Continuum 2019,...

  • OS: Windows 10 Pro 64, version 1903
  • CPU: der8auer i7-8700K (advanced edition), default speed (no overclock), Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: G.Skill Trident Z 3200C14 DDR4 64GB, XMP set to profile 1 in BIOS
  • Videocard: NVIDEA RTX 2080Ti (Founders edition), NVIDEA studio drivers
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - yes upgraded from 34 to 38, I can see more tracks now! Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB 960 pro
  • Data storage: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7
  • PS: Corsair HX1200i, Case: Silverstone fortress 2, shuttlePROv2, Keyboard and mouse: Logitech G910 and G700s (and now Evoluent Vertical Mouse)

Before November 2018: NVIDEA Gibabyte GTX 1080ti

Before November 2017: windows 10 Pro 64, i7-4790k, mem: DDR3 16GB GTX TITAN X (Maxwell)

 

bob-h wrote on 5/3/2019, 5:57 AM

 

@BruceUSA

Are you getting a case of "tech megalomania?" 😀 Anyway, your results are reflected in the Techgage article - looks like the Vega 64 cards are real winners for Vegas (also popular with some of the more technical members of the DR forums). Too bad the Canadian dollar has sunk so low...for now I can only dream.

No. Perhaps i did not clarify myself better. My statement mainly imply to those insisted nivida that and that.

 

When you VCE encode are you using the QUALITY setting, which is the only one that should be considered for this purpose, or are you using another VCE setting?

JN_ wrote on 5/3/2019, 10:23 AM

FWIW When I use say Nvenc, VCE or Qsv I have always used the default settings.  I wouldn't use that if it was for anything other than testing, I would use the best quality available.

There's a pdf supplied with the red car test, it includes the render settings. "For Vegas Pro 11 the “MainConcept AVC Internet HD 1080p” template was used.  If its to remain a valid benchmark then users should continue to use these settings, otherwise it's not a case of comparing like with like. 

This is the Magix Mainconcept one I use, in the day it was the MC one that's now in "Legacy" settings.  This is probably what most other users have used, I guess.

 ."

 

Last changed by JN_ on 5/3/2019, 10:46 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

 

Desktop and Laptop basic specs ...

Both run Win 10 ...

Running latest ver. of Vegas Pro with latest updates.

VP13 B453 also.

Vegaseur and Pluraleyes installed on both ...

Quicktime 7.79.80.95

PC ...

i9 9900K, Intel Graphics 630. Nov 2018.

Mem. 32gb DDR4 Nov. '18.

Graphics card .. Nvidia Rtx 2080 Ti

Nvidia Graphics driver .. latest Studio driver.

Intel Graphics driver

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..16GB DDR4 

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070, latest Studio driver.

Adi-W wrote on 5/3/2019, 11:20 AM

And does the render is done at Good or Best (Full) ?

JN_ wrote on 5/3/2019, 2:00 PM

Not sure I understand, render for Magix MC as template above. Render default all basically.

Last changed by JN_ on 5/3/2019, 2:00 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

 

Desktop and Laptop basic specs ...

Both run Win 10 ...

Running latest ver. of Vegas Pro with latest updates.

VP13 B453 also.

Vegaseur and Pluraleyes installed on both ...

Quicktime 7.79.80.95

PC ...

i9 9900K, Intel Graphics 630. Nov 2018.

Mem. 32gb DDR4 Nov. '18.

Graphics card .. Nvidia Rtx 2080 Ti

Nvidia Graphics driver .. latest Studio driver.

Intel Graphics driver

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..16GB DDR4 

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070, latest Studio driver.

Adi-W wrote on 5/3/2019, 2:28 PM

Ok, I have my answer: you have to be sure that preview for the "red car" project is set at Best (Full) otherwise the test render could be done only at Good depending of your actual project preview setting.
 

bob-h wrote on 5/3/2019, 5:24 PM

FWIW When I use say Nvenc, VCE or Qsv I have always used the default settings.  I wouldn't use that if it was for anything other than testing, I would use the best quality available.

Judging by encoding time alone, it seems Nvenc default is the same as 'high performance' rather than 'high quality' which is slower. I know at least one person here has said they believe the quality of encode is all the same for Vegas Nvenc, but I don't know how thorough they did their comparison. I do some lowbitrate encoding 2.5 mbit (720p) for content delivery at that bitrate & I don't trust any hardware encoding at those bitrates. VCE AVC is by far the worst in this scenario

JN_ wrote on 5/3/2019, 6:48 PM

Hi @bob-h yes i’ve seen comments to that effect. When I get a chance i’ll do a comparison ffmpeg ssim/psnr comparing with what i’ve already done. The settings i’ve used for HO render quality metrics are 135/100mbps, preset HQ, RC mode Vbr HQ, so i’ll just do default nvenc which is Preset default, RC mode vbr.

When I do red car test I just use default. When I do the HO and ffmpeg tests I use nvenc HQ, i.e. preset=High quality, RC mode=VBR - high quality

Just tried on laptop, no go, zero file size each time with nvenc default setting. I can still create the preset=High quality, RC mode=VBR - high quality file.

I'll give it a go on my PC tomorrow.

Last changed by JN_ on 5/3/2019, 7:22 PM, changed a total of 3 times.

 

Desktop and Laptop basic specs ...

Both run Win 10 ...

Running latest ver. of Vegas Pro with latest updates.

VP13 B453 also.

Vegaseur and Pluraleyes installed on both ...

Quicktime 7.79.80.95

PC ...

i9 9900K, Intel Graphics 630. Nov 2018.

Mem. 32gb DDR4 Nov. '18.

Graphics card .. Nvidia Rtx 2080 Ti

Nvidia Graphics driver .. latest Studio driver.

Intel Graphics driver

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..16GB DDR4 

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070, latest Studio driver.

JN_ wrote on 5/4/2019, 5:54 AM

Ok, got it to work no problem on PC.
The Nvenc default is better quality, using the ffmpeg test, than the Nvenc High quality vbr.
I used the same source I had previously used for the HO and ffmpeg testing, 4K UHD, 25fps, 27s duration, rendered out to same specs, using Magix MC Nvenc.

 

Higher is better ...

Encode mode: NV Encoder
Preset:            High quality
RC Mode -      VBR high quality

SSIM All: 0.985013 (18.242843)   PSNR (Avg.): 43.122470
---------------------------------------------------------------------


Encode mode: NV Encoder
Preset:            Default
RC Mode -      VBR

SSIM All: 0.985732 (18.456408)   PSNR (Avg.): 43.426891
--------------------------------------------------------------------   

High Quality rendered file ...
Size .. 305 mb
Data rate .. 94606 kbps

Default rendered file ...
Size .. 307 mb
Data rate .. 95229 kbps
------------------------------------------------

Last changed by JN_ on 5/4/2019, 8:53 AM, changed a total of 4 times.

 

Desktop and Laptop basic specs ...

Both run Win 10 ...

Running latest ver. of Vegas Pro with latest updates.

VP13 B453 also.

Vegaseur and Pluraleyes installed on both ...

Quicktime 7.79.80.95

PC ...

i9 9900K, Intel Graphics 630. Nov 2018.

Mem. 32gb DDR4 Nov. '18.

Graphics card .. Nvidia Rtx 2080 Ti

Nvidia Graphics driver .. latest Studio driver.

Intel Graphics driver

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..16GB DDR4 

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070, latest Studio driver.

IAM4UK wrote on 5/8/2019, 9:00 AM

With this talk of how VEGAS Pro uses GPU, I thought I'd share this observation from today:
My brother wanted to stitch together some video clips, and I suggested to him that there's a free program called "Davinci" that he could try to use for that purpose. Since he didn't know how to use it, I decided to try to help...I downloaded, installed it on my own machine. That program told me my GPU was too WEAK for it! It's a VEGA 64 Frontier Edition!

TheRhino wrote on 5/8/2019, 10:48 AM

OC'd 9900K to 5.0 ghz and achieved 15s on Red Car on 6/8 tests. Two were 14s...

Ran stable for 1 week, so keeping system at 5.0ghz. What I learned from tests are that Vega 64 GPU contributes even when Intel GPU/QSV is selected. Also, drivers matter. If I choose very latest AMD & Intel drivers my render speeds slow a bit.... IMO combining Intel 9900k with AMD gpu gives benefit of both for various FX & codecs that favor one over other. If you choose Threadripper you lose QSV...m

Last changed by TheRhino on 5/8/2019, 10:55 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair i150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (QSV) in 13s-14s when clocked at 5.0 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 32TB RAID0--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID10 card

10G Network using cheap Mellanox2 Adapters
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A, B & C are 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

OldSmoke wrote on 5/8/2019, 12:36 PM

OC'd 9900K to 5.0 ghz and achieved 15s on Red Car on 6/8 tests. Two were 14s...

I got 18sec on my old system... I think I skip another generation before I update.

Last changed by OldSmoke on 5/8/2019, 7:11 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: Intel DX79SR
Ram: G.Skill 8x4GB DDR3 2133 (running at 1600 and lower latency)
CPU: 3930K @ 4.3GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x ASUS Fury-X
Hard drives: 4x 2GB WD Red in RAID 5 (with Hot Spare), 2x Crucial 256GB SSD in RAID 0 (mulitcam project drive), 1x Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD (System), 1x Crucial 64GB SSD (temp files and swap file), 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner
PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM, 1x Sony HDTV 32" preview monitor

fr0sty wrote on 5/8/2019, 7:06 PM

I bit on an AMD card... Radeon VII, when it arrives friday. I'll let you know how much better it turns out vs. my current GTX 970.

Adi-W wrote on 5/8/2019, 8:01 PM

@OldSmoke I also have a Radeon Fury-X but I am far from getting 18sec on the red car test. Can you tell me with which exact render setting you are getting such result ?

OldSmoke wrote on 5/8/2019, 8:18 PM

@OldSmoke I also have a Radeon Fury-X but I am far from getting 18sec on the red car test. Can you tell me with which exact render setting you are getting such result ?

I am using the default 1080 29.97p VCE template.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: Intel DX79SR
Ram: G.Skill 8x4GB DDR3 2133 (running at 1600 and lower latency)
CPU: 3930K @ 4.3GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x ASUS Fury-X
Hard drives: 4x 2GB WD Red in RAID 5 (with Hot Spare), 2x Crucial 256GB SSD in RAID 0 (mulitcam project drive), 1x Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD (System), 1x Crucial 64GB SSD (temp files and swap file), 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner
PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM, 1x Sony HDTV 32" preview monitor

Adi-W wrote on 5/8/2019, 11:00 PM

Thanks, I have a i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz and with the default VCE template I am getting 26sec. I suppose it is time for me to upgrade my CPU...