Green Screen - Why is Zoom working better than Vegas Pro?

Rob-W wrote on 5/2/2022, 2:13 PM

Hi folks, I'm working on the latest version of Sony Vegas Pro and I'm perplexed by what's happening with my green screen. (I'm a novice.) I'm using a high-end HD web camera for filming myself. If I use my green screen background with Zoom video conferencing, it works immediately and perfectly. But using Vegas Pro video capture on Windows 10, and then working with the Chroma Keyer, it seems any screen wrinkles, shading, less than perfect lighting, or whatever get picked up and I'm left with what seems like hours of adjustments with different tools to try to get it to work even passably well. Why is Zoom so much more effective at finding and consistently removing the green screen than Vegas Pro, and can I somehow get removing the green screen to be so easy in Vegas Pro?

Comments

walter-i. wrote on 5/2/2022, 4:04 PM

The last version of Sony Vegas Pro was version #13 - Is that your version number? Please confirm before we go into depth. And please also post the build no.

Rob-W wrote on 5/2/2022, 4:37 PM

I've got Version 18 Build 527

john_dennis wrote on 5/2/2022, 7:25 PM

@Rob-W

The latest version of Magix Vegas Pro is 19-550.

Dexcon wrote on 5/2/2022, 8:25 PM

I've got Version 18 Build 527

Build 527 is in fact the final build of Vegas Pro 18.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & 22, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 20, BCC 2025, Mocha Pro 2025.0, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX11 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11:

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

 

LAPTOP:

Dell Inspiron 5310 EVO 13.3"

i5-11320H CPU

C Drive: 1TB Corsair Gen4 NVMe M.2 2230 SSD (upgraded from the original 500 GB SSD)

Monitor is 2560 x 1600 @ 60 Hz

Former user wrote on 5/2/2022, 9:47 PM

Built in Chromakey is notoriously bad in Vegas, instead of making it better a licensed Boris chromakey filter has been used since VP14 for the Vegas Pro software package, with no attention paid to subpar builtin filter.

can I somehow get removing the green screen to be so easy in Vegas Pro?

The filter they're using for Vegas Pro(package) is BCC Primatte Studio. NewBlueFx Chromekey Pro is also good, both paid options.

Dexcon wrote on 5/2/2022, 10:51 PM

Another chromakey option is HitFilm's chromakeyer which has recieved some good comments on the forum over the years. The least expensive way to get this is to get HitFilm Express - which is free - from https://fxhome.com/product/hitfilm-express ... and then buy from the Express Add-On Store the chromakey add-on - https://fxhome.com/store/hitfilm-express#composite-pro-keying - which costs a reasonable $19.99 USD.

Please note that the current version of HitFilm Express - version 2021.3 - is the last version that will integrate with Vegas Pro. Integration is achieved by R clicking a video event on Vegas Pro's timeline and selecting in the context window that opens the 'Edit in HitFilm' option.

As the chromakey add-on is the same as the chromakeyer in HitFilm Pro, you could first try out the trial version of HitFilm Pro to see if you like the HitFilm chromakeyer: https://fxhome.com/product/hitfilm-pro

BCC Primatte Studio bought as a BCC OFX Unit from BorisFX costs $299 USD for a new perpetual licence, and NewBlueFX's chromakeyer - part of the Elements 3 Ultimate package - looks like it costs around $300 USD.

Very likely less expensive than those two options is to check VEGAS's website and see how much an upgrade from Vegas Pro 18 Edit to Vegas Pro 19 (the version that comes with BCC Primatte Studio) would cost.

Just a cautionary note about BCC OFX plugins - any BCC OFX Units installed on the same computer must all be from the same version. The BBC plugins that currently come with Vegas Pro are usually the BCC 2021.5 version, this being the previous version. This means that if you were to buy a current 2022 BCC Unit from BorisFX, it will override 2021.5 licensing and render any installed 2021.5 or earlier BCC Units inoperable. This is just the way that BorisFX's BCC (and Sapphire) licencing system works.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & 22, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 20, BCC 2025, Mocha Pro 2025.0, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX11 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11:

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

 

LAPTOP:

Dell Inspiron 5310 EVO 13.3"

i5-11320H CPU

C Drive: 1TB Corsair Gen4 NVMe M.2 2230 SSD (upgraded from the original 500 GB SSD)

Monitor is 2560 x 1600 @ 60 Hz

fr0sty wrote on 5/2/2022, 11:19 PM

I think Zoom is using an AI based tool for background removal. I imagine that is on the team's list of new AI features to be added, alongside the existing AI upscaling, style transfer, and colorization plugins that VEGAS 19 already has.

To add to the above post, there's also VEGAS Effects, which basically is the paid version of Hitfilm, and it also comes with VEGAS Image, which is a sort of combination of photoshop and lightroom. It does still directly integrate with VEGAS.

Last changed by fr0sty on 5/2/2022, 11:19 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Rob-W wrote on 5/3/2022, 9:35 AM

Thanks for your insights, everyone! This is all very disappointing to hear. I did get some sort of limited free packages of BorisFX and NewBlue when I purchased Vegas Pro in 2020, but as near as I can tell neither package included a chroma keyer -- or could it be hidden somewhere? How frustrating! After spending hundreds of dollars to get Vegas Pro, I did not expect to be grappling with a chroma keyer that's worse than a basic free video conferencing tool.

xcxz-a wrote on 5/3/2022, 10:01 AM

After spending hundreds of dollars to get Vegas Pro, I did not expect to be grappling with a chroma keyer that's worse than a basic free video conferencing tool.

@Rob-W After using free Resolve, you will say "your hundreds of dollars of Vegas Pro worse than a basic free video editing tool".

Former user wrote on 5/3/2022, 6:37 PM

Confusingly the base product is called Vegas Edit, which is just Vegas Pro, plus cheap bonus plugins depending on when you purchase, Vegas Pro(package) contains Boris Primatte Studio(chromakey) which costs extra, so if you bought the cheapest option you have no good chromakey as that filter is used to upsell you to VegasPro (package)

Rob-W wrote on 5/3/2022, 11:38 PM

After using free Resolve, you will say "your hundreds of dollars of Vegas Pro worse than a basic free video editing tool".

@xcxz-a You are right! It took me a while to figure out how it works in Davinci Resolve, but then, boom, chroma key effect working perfectly and easily. Thanks for that tip, I'd never heard of that software. I'm not keen about learning a whole new editing tool, but after this I think I've lost faith in Vegas.

Former user wrote on 5/4/2022, 12:04 AM

You can try installing AVID Media composer, and New Blue Prime FX. It's an OFX filter that will show in Vegas.

https://newbluefx.com/blog/newblue-prime-effects-avid-media-composer-first/

I've never tried this, it apparently used to work, so that's a potentially free way of getting a good quality chromakey in Vegas

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 5/4/2022, 10:11 AM

@Rob-W I found the standard Chroma Key fx works better rendering if Full Resolution Render Quality is set to Best in project properties. Previewing is similarly cleaner at Best-Full.

Reyfox wrote on 5/8/2022, 12:49 PM

I've had no problems using Vegas Chroma key with a properly lit greenscreen and subject. It worked quite well.

A friend who was using another editor trying to greenscreen, was having problems. He sent me a short clip, in 2 minutes, I was done in Vegas with Vegas Chroma Key. And while I have Primatte, Ignite, NBFX Chroma Key and Boris Chroma key, for what I need, Vegas works ok.

Last changed by Reyfox on 5/8/2022, 12:56 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Newbie😁

Vegas Pro 22 (VP18-21 also installed)

Win 11 Pro always updated

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16 cores / 32 threads

32GB DDR4 3200

Sapphire RX6700XT 12GB Driver: 25.5.1

Gigabyte X570 Elite Motherboard

Panasonic G9, G7, FZ300

Rob-W wrote on 5/8/2022, 1:36 PM

@Reyfox Yes, I have no doubt that's affecting it -- right now I'm not working with a high quality green screen nor with high quality lighting. Still, I was perplexed by why Zoom, and now Resolve, so easily and effectively got around those limitations, while in Vegas editing they seemed nearly insurmountable.

fr0sty wrote on 5/8/2022, 1:41 PM

Don't forget you can also double-layer the chroma key effect to key out stuff the first one did not get, so if you have darker greens that the first pass misses, slap on a second one.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

xcxz-a wrote on 5/8/2022, 9:05 PM

@Rob-W Can you upload your video in GooGle Drive

Former user wrote on 5/8/2022, 9:13 PM

@Reyfox Other then how well it works, a problem for new users could be it's default behavior. It's a blue key that may show some of the track underneath meaning when they use the color chooser they won't be choosing the actual background they wish to key. The default/reset behavior should not key, it requires turning down the high threshold to zero.

Reyfox wrote on 5/9/2022, 7:09 AM

@Former user you probably are right. New users would not know of the color picker to be able to choose the color to key out.

But as someone who doesn't read manuals, I found using it fairly straight forward and easy with a good chroma key. And since it has a limited number of controls, it isn't overwhelming like Primatte or the other chroma keyers I have.

As I wrote, my friend could not get a good key with other editing software he was using. He even tried NBFX Chroma Key Pro. In 2 minutes, I sent him what I was able to do with Vegas Chroma Key. He changed his editing software to Vegas Pro, bought Continuum Complete and Mocha Pro and has been a happy editing person ever since. He has to do a lot of chroma key work for the company he works for.

Newbie😁

Vegas Pro 22 (VP18-21 also installed)

Win 11 Pro always updated

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16 cores / 32 threads

32GB DDR4 3200

Sapphire RX6700XT 12GB Driver: 25.5.1

Gigabyte X570 Elite Motherboard

Panasonic G9, G7, FZ300