Intel i9 13900K and 14900K CPU's

andyrpsmith wrote on 7/27/2024, 7:53 AM

Just in case you are not aware there is an issue with i9 (and to a lesser extent other Intel CPUs are failing due to high core voltage being requested by the CPU). This is seen by the user as PC crash and or messages that you have run out of Vram when clearly you have not. If you get to the stage of crashing often it is likely your CPU is permanently damaged and will need to be replaced by Intel.

You may or not be aware that all motherboard MFR's have released an interim BIOS update to keep the CPU within Intel limits and you are recommended to update your MB BIOS now (most BIOS updates have been posted in July so check). The BIOS update is likely to say "Updated with microcode 0x125 to ensure eTVB operates within Intel specifications"

Intel are releasing a code update via MB manufacturers in mid August but this will not repair damaged CPUs only stop CPUs from requesting excessive core voltages from the motherboard.

Any overclocking is likely to hasten the death of the CPU. Any Vcore voltage at 1.5V or above is considered high and best keep Vcore below 1.45V.

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Comments

Former user wrote on 8/3/2024, 5:23 AM

With known highly degraded 13900K's one of their faults is inability to install Nvidia GPU drivers, so people have come up with the idea to detect if your Intel CPU is already damaged is try reinstalling drivers 5 times in a row, if no decompression error CPU may be ok. If it's really degraded there would be other faults like Chrome and discord crashing, archive decompression crashing, general system instability, many things that overclockers would be used to.

This hasn't been picked up by the likes of Gamers Nexus etc so may not be a credible tool.

Reyfox wrote on 8/3/2024, 8:12 AM

@RogerS that certainly is a damning video by Gamers Nexus concerning Intel and their CPU's. This would make me uncomfortable.

bitman wrote on 8/3/2024, 8:13 AM

I updated my system with the new BIOS F29d for Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER. I ran some tests Vegas 21 and 22 fairly heavy CPU bound rendering, the default BIOS settings were still to aggressive to my taste, as I had a lot of thermal throttling as shown in the HWiNFO64 tool.

So I reduced the max power TDPL1 and TDPL2 to 125 W as before the BIOS upgrade. I still had the occasional throttle during render, but less.

Then I reduced the IA-AC loadline from default 90 to 50 (values are in 1/100 mOhm in GigaByte BIOS), this kept the Vcore voltage max closer to <=1.5 V (if you reduce the max power, you can reduce the voltage a tiny bit without the CPU becoming unstable - this reduces the thermals). Now the same Vegas 22 render has no thermal throttling anymore, this with the125W PL1/2 did the trick.

Reyfox wrote on 8/3/2024, 8:19 AM

No one should have to resort to going into the BIOS to fix any issues. This goes way beyond the average consumers level of understanding. Especially if they bought a pre-built computer. At least a CPU swap can be done. But what about laptop users with soldered CPU's. This is a huge disaster for Intel with customers now in limbo wondering if they have an affected CPU.

bitman wrote on 8/3/2024, 8:20 AM

Note that the recent BIOS fix microcode 0x125 to ensure eTVB operation normal, is not the "final" fix expected mid august...

bitman wrote on 8/3/2024, 8:21 AM

No one should have to resort to going into the BIOS to fix any issues. This goes way beyond the average consumers level of understanding. Especially if they bought a pre-built computer. At least a CPU swap can be done. But what about laptop users with soldered CPU's. This is a huge disaster for Intel with customers now in limbo wondering if they have an affected CPU.

Indeed!

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 8/9/2024, 11:29 AM

fyi...
https://community.intel.com/t5/Processors/Microcode-0x129-Update-for-Intel-Core-13th-and-14th-Gen-Desktop/m-p/1622143

and...
https://wccftech.com/asus-msi-roll-out-z790-0x129-microcode-bios-intel-14th-13th-gen-instability-issues/

Reyfox wrote on 8/9/2024, 11:40 AM

The question is, what about CPU's that have been damaged already? How does one even know if their CPU is slowly degrading?

andyrpsmith wrote on 8/9/2024, 11:40 AM

The issue I have with ASUS Z790 Hero is that the BIOS is Beta and talks about non K CPUs right now. I will wait for the final version.

andyrpsmith wrote on 8/9/2024, 11:47 AM

@Reyfox The only way you will know is if any instability causes system problems or you get out of memory message or IGPU not working.

Reyfox wrote on 8/9/2024, 11:51 AM

@andyrpsmith this is depressing for Intel users. Software sometimes crashes. But for the average user, how will they know? This is depressing in deed. And Intel has known about for for quite a long time.

andyrpsmith wrote on 8/9/2024, 12:06 PM

Yes I agree with you, my family have three i913900K CPUs. Intel have nothing to replace them with that currently is reliable.

john_dennis wrote on 8/10/2024, 4:59 PM

Since I built my machine, ASUS has released twelve BIOS updates, (some of which might have actually introduced the bug). I have been on BIOS 0816 and have not had a reason to think about updating it. As a rule, I do maintenance when I'm exceedingly bored or exceedingly paranoid that something bad may happen.

PROART Z790-CREATOR WIFI BIOS 0816 Version 0816 11.56 MB 2023/02/24
Support high-capacity DDR5 memory kits

PROART Z790-CREATOR WIFI BIOS 0904 Version 0904 11.59 MB 2023/05/09
1. Update with ME Firmware 16.1.25.2124
2. Support GSKILL DDR5-7200 48GB (24GBx2) memory kit
3. Improve system performance

PROART Z790-CREATOR WIFI BIOS 1203 Version 1203 11.57 MB 2023/06/16
“Before BIOS update, please download Intel ME update tool from ASUS support site, and update ME firmware to Version 16.1.27.2176 to ensure optimized system settings.”

1. Improve system stability and compatibility for the Intel® Core™ 14th gen processors
2. Fix the compatibility and instability issues when configuring RAID for high-capacity storage
3. Do update the intel ME to version 16.1.27.2176

PROART Z790-CREATOR WIFI BIOS 1303 Version 1303 13.38 MB 2023/08/25
1. Recommended for vital update to mitigate the potential security vulnerabilities
2. Improve system performance

PROART Z790-CREATOR WIFI BIOS 1402 Version 1402 13.39 MB 2023/10/06
1. Update Microcode for Intel® Core™ 14th gen processors
2. Update ME to version 16.1.30.2264 for Intel® Core™ 14th gen processors
3. Improve system stability

PROART Z790-CREATOR WIFI BIOS 1501 Version 1501 13.39 MB 2023/10/26
Improve System Performance

PROART Z790-CREATOR WIFI BIOS 1801 Version 1801 13.42 MB 2023/12/22
1. Improved system performance.
2. Patched LogoFail vulnerabilities.
3. Updated default setting for PCIe bandwidth bifurcation configuration.

PROART Z790-CREATOR WIFI BIOS 1904 Version 1904 13.42 MB 2024/02/16
• Improved system performance.
• Enhanced compatibility with 256GB memory.

PROART Z790-CREATOR WIFI BIOS 2002 Version 2002 13.43 MB 2024/02/23
• Update the Intel microcode to version 0x123, allowing for disabling CEP for improved performance on Intel 14th Gen non-K series processors*
• Disabling CEP for performance enhancement may lead to increased power consumption and temperature. Ensure adequate CPU cooling or use a higher-spec cooling solution.
*Intel CEP function varies by the CPU model. Check your CPU's specifications or reach out to its technical support for more information.

PROART Z790-CREATOR WIFI BIOS 2102 Version 2102 13.43 MB 2024/03/19
1. Improved DDR5 compatibility
2. Further optimized CEP settings when disabled

PROART Z790-CREATOR WIFI BIOS 2302 Version 2302 13.44 MB 2024/05/30
1. Introduce the ""Performance Preferences"" with options for Intel Default Settings (Performance/Extreme) and ASUS Advanced OC Profile.
2. Redefine the factory defaults based on Intel’s new ""Intel Default Settings"" for various CPU SKUs.
3. Change F5 from ""Load Optimized Defaults"" to ""Reset to Defaults"".
4. Add warnings when users switch from the defaults to other settings.

PROART Z790-CREATOR WIFI BIOS 2402 Version 2402 13.44 MB 2024/07/12
Updated with microcode 0x125 to ensure eTVB operates within Intel specifications

and now...

PROART Z790-CREATOR WIFI BIOS 2504 Version 2504 Beta Version 13.5 MB 2024/08/08
"The new BIOS includes Intel microcode 0x129 and adjusts the factory default settings for the non-K processors, enhancing the stability of Intel Core 13th and 14th gen desktop processors.

Updating this BIOS will simultaneously update the corresponding intel ME to version 16.1.30.2307.
Please note after you update this BIOS, the ME version remains the updated one even if you roll back to an older BIOS later.
Before running the USB BIOS Flashback tool, please rename the BIOS file (PAZ790CW.CAP) using BIOSRenamer."

... which is beta.

As a single user, I refuse to beta test hardware for multi-billion-dollar corporations on hardware that I paid for with my money. When the beta test is finished, I'll pick a day, install the latest BIOS update and replace all the tunings that I'm running now. Though I get bored from time to time, I'm not paranoid about this issue. I was looking for a new system eighteen months ago when I bought this one, I'll be looking for another one in another thirty months when my machine cycle comes to an end. I'm very happy with it, but it's a machine. I've worked on thousands and owned dozens of machines.

RogerS wrote on 8/10/2024, 5:54 PM

From Puget's experience tuning systems for reliability vs maximizing performance doesn't exhibit high failure rates.

The new microcode should keep the CPU for calling for unreasonably high voltages.

I'm on the MSI side and the z690 patches aren't released yet, only the newer z790 motherboards.

bitman wrote on 8/14/2024, 4:03 AM

Finally some good news from Intel, they have buckled under the pressure from the community:

According an computer magazine article (in Dutch), it seems that Intel has extended their warranty (*) with 2 extra years, which is now 5 years ( 3 default + 2 extra years in my country).

(*) only for certain processor types...

https://www.ct.nl/nieuws/defecte-intel-processors-intel-verlengt-garantie-vanwege-problemen/?utm_source=nieuwsbrief_ct&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=FNL2694_CM9391_0&utm_content=Multi%20template%20artikel_FNL_Nieuwsbrief_Variabele_posities_Nieuwsbrief&bid=5750740286844972467

bitman wrote on 8/14/2024, 4:08 AM

I see that Gigabyte has now just released the final Intel fix for Z690 AORUS MASTER motherboards, BIOS F29e, with microcode 0x129 ...

Reyfox wrote on 8/14/2024, 5:27 AM

The question is, what happens to laptop owners? How does one know if the CPU they have has been affected, even if marginally so?

RogerS wrote on 8/14/2024, 6:25 AM

The question is, what happens to laptop owners? How does one know if the CPU they have has been affected, even if marginally so?

Intel denies mobile processors are affected and I haven't seen user reports to the contrary.

Reyfox wrote on 8/14/2024, 6:46 AM

Would I trust them (Intel) if I had one of their CPU's in a laptop? No. They've hid this problem for a few years.

All the reports have been with desktop CPU's for sure. Maybe it's the much lower power usage in a laptop that has saved them. But there is no mention of it.

RogerS wrote on 8/14/2024, 7:03 AM

The voltages and power consumption are completely different and I would assume the firmware is also quite different as it needs to much more aggressively control heat build up. I wouldn't worry about it until there's evidence of an issue.

If there were a processor microcode fix (as there were to patch various Intel CPU hardware security bugs in the past) the OEMs would release it as a UEFI update. Just about everyone with a laptop bought it from an OEM so I think it's easier to address than desktops where people build their own systems and have to manage updates themselves.

bitman wrote on 8/14/2024, 10:59 AM

Laptops probably break down mechanically before the processor anyway 😟

bitman wrote on 8/14/2024, 11:06 AM

The question is, what happens to laptop owners? How does one know if the CPU they have has been affected, even if marginally so?

Intel is working on tools so you can determine if your processor is degrading/faulty/affected by the issue, probably some complex math calculations going bonkers could reveal if your CPU is not to be trusted anymore.

bitman wrote on 8/14/2024, 11:22 AM

I have upgraded to the new BIOS and did some tests, and experimented with some settings and came up with a improved BIOS setting for Vegas to avoid thermal throttling without loosing to much performance. I am thinking to get the new improved Noctua D15 gen 2 air cooler, to knock off some temperature so I can boost my settings.

Currently I have following BIOS setting

max power TDPL1 125W, TDPL2 to 253W (= Intel default performance setting)
IA-AC load line from default 90 to 50 (drops some CPU voltage)
Disabled hyperthreading (less heat, and I see no difference in render time)

The disable hyperthreading I never considered before, but it seems that most games even run faster with HT off, I do not see any difference in Vegas as well, also the upcoming processor generations from Intel are dropping hyperthreading anyway, it makes less sense now with the many real cores we have nowadays.

bitman wrote on 8/14/2024, 11:26 AM

One remark: setting in the new Gigabyte BIOS by enabling "intel performance setting" sets it wrongly for the processor it sets TDPL1 to 253W which is for the KS variant, not for K variant, so I still have manually overwrite this- shame on you Gigabyte!