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Reyfox wrote on 12/10/2022, 10:32 AM

@Roger Bansemer all you have to do is open VP20 and the project. Highlight the entire project, copy (Ctrl c) and paste (Ctrl v) into 17 or 19.

walter-i. wrote on 12/10/2022, 10:33 AM

When you mention, can't "revert" are you talking about going to a previous version of Vegas? If so, just highlight and copy the timeline and paste it in a previous version.

Yes, I can't revert to V17 or V19 after having started it in V20.

This has never worked in Vegas pro - or in most programs I know.
Computer-Programs are (conditionally) upward compatible, but not downward compatible.

Roger Bansemer wrote on 12/10/2022, 12:19 PM

@Roger Bansemer all you have to do is open VP20 and the project. Highlight the entire project, copy (Ctrl c) and paste (Ctrl v) into 17 or 19.

That works with the clips themselves and audio but if you have color balance, etc on the track level it would not carry over.

Roger Bansemer wrote on 12/10/2022, 12:32 PM

. Working with V20 is horrible. Even with a new project with only a few video clips and one audio track on the timeline, the lag time and crashes are almost continues.

I think I'm very lucky not seeings those problems and therefore I like to help you if possible.
Therefore it's needed to see a few of your settings, screenshots of
- Options/Preferences/Video
- Options/Preferences/File I/O
- Screen you get after Help/Check for Driver Updates
 

 

Thank you. That is very kind of you. Hope you can spot something.

j-v wrote on 12/10/2022, 1:01 PM

Thank you for the pics but I see 2x the same pic of File I/O and not one of the Video tab

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 23H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
522.22 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 522.22 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Vegas software: VP 10 to 21 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

Roger Bansemer wrote on 12/10/2022, 2:12 PM

Thank you for the pics but I see 2x the same pic of File I/O and not one of the Video tab

Sorry, my mistake.

j-v wrote on 12/10/2022, 2:23 PM

Set your Dynamic RAM Preview max back to default if you use that option a lot.
When you don't use Shift+B you can set it to 0 and you will see no or less your "not responding" anymore.

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 23H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
522.22 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 522.22 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Vegas software: VP 10 to 21 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

walter-i. wrote on 12/10/2022, 4:53 PM

@Roger Bansemer all you have to do is open VP20 and the project. Highlight the entire project, copy (Ctrl c) and paste (Ctrl v) into 17 or 19.

That works with the clips themselves and audio but if you have color balance, etc on the track level it would not carry over.

This is exactly the limitation why upward compatibility cannot work.
If certain functions were added in later versions, or possibly changed, how should a previous version be able to display that?
What Reyfox suggested to you is a workaround, a crutch, but nothing more.

Roger Bansemer wrote on 12/11/2022, 1:50 PM

Set your Dynamic RAM Preview max back to default if you use that option a lot.
When you don't use Shift+B you can set it to 0 and you will see no or less your "not responding" anymore.

I'll give that a try however I do use the preview render quite a bit.

j-v wrote on 12/11/2022, 2:01 PM

Selectively Prerender Video (Shift+M) has nothing to do with Build Dynamic RAM Preview(Shift+B).
If you select an amount of RAM for the latter it is not anymore available for other tasks on your computer as f.i, making edits or outside Vegas looking at the internet.

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 23H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
522.22 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 522.22 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Vegas software: VP 10 to 21 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

RogerS wrote on 12/11/2022, 10:33 PM

Settings look fine here though I agree the dynamic ram preview/ shift b allocated is on the high side! At least you have a lot of ram.

There is a newer NVIDIA studio driver but changes appear minor.

If you have track level changes you could save the presets and apply them to the copied project in 19 or 17. Or just do it manually with both programs open at the same time.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Roger Bansemer wrote on 12/12/2022, 11:33 AM

Set your Dynamic RAM Preview max back to default if you use that option a lot.
When you don't use Shift+B you can set it to 0 and you will see no or less your "not responding" anymore.

I'm watching a Vegas tutorial on youtube by "scrapyard films" and he says to set dynamic range as high as possible and your advice is the opposite. I'm confused

His video states this at about 1:00

j-v wrote on 12/12/2022, 12:01 PM


It is you who can and must decide, fortunately I have no problems

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 23H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
522.22 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 522.22 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Vegas software: VP 10 to 21 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

Vincent-Brice wrote on 12/12/2022, 3:42 PM

Set your Dynamic RAM Preview max back to default if you use that option a lot.
When you don't use Shift+B you can set it to 0 and you will see no or less your "not responding" anymore.

I'm watching a Vegas tutorial on youtube by "scrapyard films" and he says to set dynamic range as high as possible and your advice is the opposite. I'm confused

His video states this at about 1:00

Hi @Roger Bansemer I like using shift B and use it often, so I have always had DRP set high and I've never had an issue with it causing crashes or lagging.

Edited comment: But now reading Roger's comments below and proving it to myself with some tests, I realise there are disadvantages of assigning too much RAM to DRP. So I will go with 5% of my 64gigs from now on and see how I get on. I'll just increase it a little if I regularly find that sections I want to preview require it 😊

Last changed by Vincent-Brice on 12/13/2022, 4:44 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Gigabyte Aorus Pro V2 motherboard, AMD Ryzen 9 5950X, Gigabyte AMD RX 6800XT, 64GB Corsair Vengeance 3600MHz ("Ryzen tuned", whatever that is), 500GB Corsair Force MP600 Gen 4 M.2 C:drive for windows and programs, 500GB Samsung Sata SSD EVO D:drive for video files, 1TB Samsung Sata SSD EVO E:drive for all other data, Creative Sound Blaster Z sound card, Gigabyte Aorus Waterforce 360 CPU cooler, Thermaltake Core P5 TG open case, Contour ShuttleXpress.

Windows 11 Pro 22H2, Vegas 20 Build 403, AMD driver version 23.4.3

walter-i. wrote on 12/12/2022, 3:42 PM

I'm watching a Vegas tutorial on youtube by "scrapyard films" and he says to set dynamic range as high as possible and your advice is the opposite. I'm confused

I would simply try both.
Not even on the Internet do you have a guarantee for the all-embracing truth.

RogerS wrote on 12/12/2022, 7:08 PM

It's a preview buffer, nothing more, and you'll see there are diminishing returns for playback framerate which you can confirm yourself.

If system ram amounts are low (16GB) you can slow down Vegas by overassigning ram to dynamic ram preview. Even with 32GB Vegas may run short on ram it needs to do other things. That depends on the nature of your project and footage. So saying one number like 75% of system ram isn't really helpful in my opinion.

It should also have no positive impact on stability and potentially negative at the rendering stage as it can conflict with GPU encoding, at least in pre Vegas Pro 19 versions.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Vincent-Brice wrote on 12/13/2022, 3:23 AM

@RogerS I used to think it was just "a preview buffer", that I could render a section into RAM and then get a smooth preview of the final render from the RAM, that’s why I like it. But now I’m well confused. If it’s just a preview buffer and nothing more, why does it have an affect on render times and frame rate?

These are my results with the 4K Sample Project:

GPU decoding            
DRP %    MB     Render time    Section ave FPS
0     0     02:18     18
5     3274     00:58     20
75     49111     00:56     8
            
Legacy AVC decoding            
DRP %    MB     Render time    Section ave FPS
0     0     02:15     19.5
5     3274     00:54     20.5
75     49111     00:54     9.5

Exactly as you said, “diminishing returns for playback framerate” if set too high. But the render time, over two minutes with no DRP, and then a consistent 54 seconds when set on anything from 1% - 75%

This has made me realise how little I understand and that my comments may just confuse things, so I wish I could retract my previous comment to @Roger Bansemer. As a proverb says “Even a fool who keeps silent will be considered wise”. So, in future I will be an avid reader of the forum, and maybe ask the odd question, but leave the commenting to you big boys, of which I have to say, I really appreciate 😀

Gigabyte Aorus Pro V2 motherboard, AMD Ryzen 9 5950X, Gigabyte AMD RX 6800XT, 64GB Corsair Vengeance 3600MHz ("Ryzen tuned", whatever that is), 500GB Corsair Force MP600 Gen 4 M.2 C:drive for windows and programs, 500GB Samsung Sata SSD EVO D:drive for video files, 1TB Samsung Sata SSD EVO E:drive for all other data, Creative Sound Blaster Z sound card, Gigabyte Aorus Waterforce 360 CPU cooler, Thermaltake Core P5 TG open case, Contour ShuttleXpress.

Windows 11 Pro 22H2, Vegas 20 Build 403, AMD driver version 23.4.3

RogerS wrote on 12/13/2022, 3:32 AM

It's a preview buffer that also buffers frames during normal timeline playback, not just when you explicitly make a ram preview. It's also active doing the same thing during rendering, though until VP 19 (from 15-18?) it was improperly interacting with the GPU encoder leaving artifacts (which caused me all kinds of headaches in the VP 15/16 days).

You and I did similar tests and it seems that only a very small amount matters for rendering, so the old default of just 200MB is fine. I leave it on the new default of 5% for VP 19 and 20.

I don't think it matters for stability, and the other changes in that video and ones like it have greater impact, but making multiple changes at once makes it hard to distinguish what is effective.

Edit: please do continue to comment as it's how we all learn. I've been corrected here as well and that's fine by me- I'd rather understand more fully than be right or protect my ego.

Last changed by RogerS on 12/13/2022, 3:34 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

EricLNZ wrote on 12/13/2022, 3:36 AM

@Vincent-Brice You can edit your post. There should be a red Edit button on the right of your post.

Vincent-Brice wrote on 12/13/2022, 4:27 AM

@Vincent-Brice You can edit your post. There should be a red Edit button on the right of your post.

Haha, just proved my point entirely, I was clicking the MORE option and forgot about that massive red edit button!! 😂 Thanks.

Gigabyte Aorus Pro V2 motherboard, AMD Ryzen 9 5950X, Gigabyte AMD RX 6800XT, 64GB Corsair Vengeance 3600MHz ("Ryzen tuned", whatever that is), 500GB Corsair Force MP600 Gen 4 M.2 C:drive for windows and programs, 500GB Samsung Sata SSD EVO D:drive for video files, 1TB Samsung Sata SSD EVO E:drive for all other data, Creative Sound Blaster Z sound card, Gigabyte Aorus Waterforce 360 CPU cooler, Thermaltake Core P5 TG open case, Contour ShuttleXpress.

Windows 11 Pro 22H2, Vegas 20 Build 403, AMD driver version 23.4.3

Sging2 wrote on 12/31/2022, 5:45 AM

You are so lucky. I'm using 365. Maybe that a problem. I have no idea except now that I've started multiple projects with V20 I can't revert and it's made editing unpleasant where it use to be a joy.

I also have the subscription one but cant use for all the same reasons and have raised a call in with Magix for a few weeks with no luck yet and have sent them all the info they requested except a screen shot of the lagging 😂, but I did say I could do a screen recording if they wanted it.

On 20 I have a laggy timeline, a second or two before anything happens after a click of the mouse on anything and constant crashing. I have given up on 20 until its fixed and have gone back to 19 which is perfect, same media used on both as they are all weddings filmed the same way, the last wedding I edited with 20 took twice as long to finish as normal and that was a HD one. The one I am editing now in 19 is 4K one and no issues at all in 19 and flying through it and with no proxies , even though I have now gone with the subscription I am sticking with 19 for this season's weddings.

Just something I noticed and to perhaps note, I accidently opened a 4K edit up in 20 which I had started in 19 and it was perfect and all normal as like when in 19, no lagging, no crashing and ran just like 19, UNTIL I clicked save and it said do you want to save to a newer file type, so after backing up the file, I tried it and as soon as it converted to 20 all the bad issues started again making me think its something to do with the new file type, not sure but there's a strong clue there, I'm now back in 19 to finish it.

Sorry I also posted this as a quote to someone in another post who is having the same issue but wanted to share here as well due to the file type issue I noticed, so hope that's ok to repeat.

Kind Regards

Stephen

Reyfox wrote on 12/31/2022, 8:12 AM

@Sging2 curios as to what type of 4K clips you have, what created them and what you have done ot them on the the timeline. How long is the project?

I've been quite happy editing 4K 10 bit 422 MOV clips from my Panasonic camera. Using Boris, NBFX, Ignite Pro and some Vegas effects and nary an issue saving. I've turned off in Vegas Hub "Create Project Collection" which is on by default. I do my own incremental saves and don't want any "automated" software tick doing it for me.

A buddy of mine, @Wiew, does corporate videos also using Panasonic 4K and Mavic Mini 3 Pro 4K. He said to me that he has basically only had one crash, and that could have been because of a third party plugin. He re-imaged his hard drive, updated drivers and installed his necessary video and music creation software.

Wiew wrote on 12/31/2022, 9:53 AM

@Reyfox I had 2 ;-)

One working mercalli , it woud not go back to V20

Two working with waves vst 3 equaiser .

Both things happppend ony one time , the next time it worked ok

I did a clean install on a clean windows pc

Sging2 wrote on 1/2/2023, 11:47 AM

@Sging2 curios as to what type of 4K clips you have, what created them and what you have done ot them on the the timeline. How long is the project?

I've been quite happy editing 4K 10 bit 422 MOV clips from my Panasonic camera. Using Boris, NBFX, Ignite Pro and some Vegas effects and nary an issue saving. I've turned off in Vegas Hub "Create Project Collection" which is on by default. I do my own incremental saves and don't want any "automated" software tick doing it for me.

A buddy of mine, @Wiew, does corporate videos also using Panasonic 4K and Mavic Mini 3 Pro 4K. He said to me that he has basically only had one crash, and that could have been because of a third party plugin. He re-imaged his hard drive, updated drivers and installed his necessary video and music creation software.

Hi @Reyfox

This is the Media data from a clip on my current project . This all plays without proxies and the preview window at Best on Vegas 19, no crashes or issues at all, fast and smooth with any FX or transitions applied. Even HD is problematic on my 365 Vegas 20 which was my last two projects I had to finish once started.

I use Panasonic HC-X1 for this footage.

 

General
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (mp42/avc1)
File size                                : 230 MiB
Duration                                 : 20 s 160 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 95.7 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2022-09-11 10:10:59
Tagged date                              : UTC 2022-09-11 10:10:59

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 2 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 20 s 160 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 94.1 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 106 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.454
Stream size                              : 226 MiB (98%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2022-09-11 10:10:59
Tagged date                              : UTC 2022-09-11 10:10:59
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Big / Signed
Codec ID                                 : twos
Duration                                 : 20 s 160 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 3.69 MiB (2%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2022-09-11 10:10:59
Tagged date                              : UTC 2022-09-11 10:10:59

Other
ID                                       : 3
Type                                     : Time code
Format                                   : QuickTime TC
Duration                                 : 20 s 160 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Time code of first frame                 : 20:53:01:20
Time code of last frame                  : 20:53:21:23
Time code, stripped                      : No
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2022-09-11 10:10:59
Tagged date                              : UTC 2022-09-11 10:10:59