Render to 4k make artefacts and random dropping frames

Komaryt wrote on 2/15/2023, 10:53 AM

Hello.
Yesterday I reinstall windows and I install fresh Vegas 20 but today I cannot render any video in 4k and the problem exist only when I want to render it in 4k.

Yesterday I made some corrections in my clients movie in 1080p and everything works fine, render complete fine too without any crashes, frame drops etc. Today I made some tests with my new camera S5 II and I wanted to render it to 4k output 3840x2160 but I can't. Vegas is making artefacts in random places I tried to render it twice and everytime it made this things in differents spots and time. In playback everything looks great even in preview while I am rendering there is not any bugs, everything looks perfect. I thought that will be Media Player Classic error but when I imported that file into vegas the artefacts still exist.
I use only color grading effect in Track FX with my LUT, nothing else.

My render settings and project settings are on screenshots.


Before I reinstall windows issue appear too so I thought that could be some windows errors that's why I reinstall it.

My PC:
Ryzen 9 3900x
Memory 32gb
Geforce GTX 1060
Vegas 20 v. 326

As at this short movies it does not bother me but I wonder it would not be the case in future movies when I will have to render 60-90minutes wedding movies and in some point this artefacts will appear...





Comments

Former user wrote on 2/15/2023, 11:18 AM

@Komaryt Hi, presumably you also reinstalled/updated he GPU driver?

Komaryt wrote on 2/15/2023, 11:41 AM

@Komaryt Hi, presumably you also reinstalled/updated he GPU driver?

Hello!
Yes, everything is up-to-date. I download newest drivers for everything which were available.

Now I am trying to render it with Magix HEVC/AAC MP4 - and with 4 rendered movies it doesn't made any artefacts or crashes - maybe there is the thing that 4k I need to render in HEVC/AAC not AVC/AAC ?

Former user wrote on 2/15/2023, 12:01 PM



Now I am trying to render it with Magix HEVC/AAC MP4 - and with 4 rendered movies it doesn't made any artefacts or crashes - maybe there is the thing that 4k I need to render in HEVC/AAC not AVC/AAC ?

@Komaryt  I only ever use 4k/UHD 3840x2160 MP4 AVC, you should be able to render to whatever format you want to, so I doubt that is your problem,

Your pictures show them as 10bit, I know some 10bit files can be problematic? so to help others that know a lot more than me - there's an App called MediaInfo, download it, it's free & a fast download with no added adverts or any of that rubbish. https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo

After downloading, right click on the media file in your Windows folder, open MediaInfo, choose Text from the options at the top, Copy & paste the information in a new comment on here 👍

 

Komaryt wrote on 2/15/2023, 12:10 PM

General
Complete name                            : G:\2023_S5mk2_testy\tarnawka las - AF\PANA0252.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (mp42/hvc1)
File size                                : 743 MiB
Duration                                 : 1 min 28 s
Overall bit rate                         : 70.6 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-02-15 10:36:01
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-02-15 10:36:01
PANA                                     : vÿ

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@High
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 1 min 28 s
Bit rate                                 : 70.2 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.339
Stream size                              : 739 MiB (100%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-02-15 10:36:01
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-02-15 10:36:01
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 1 min 28 s
Source duration                          : 1 min 28 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 128 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 1.32 MiB (0%)
Source stream size                       : 1.32 MiB (0%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-02-15 10:36:01
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-02-15 10:36:01

john_dennis wrote on 2/15/2023, 12:35 PM

Any time I see a hardware encoder in use, I always suspect the hardware encoder before I pursue any Vegas issue.

Have you rendered the same project using CPU only?

What's the fascination with 50 Mbps?

Was the rendered file actually 50 Mbps?

Komaryt wrote on 2/15/2023, 12:45 PM

Any time I see a hardware encoder in use, I always suspect the hardware encoder before I pursue any Vegas issue.

Have you rendered the same project using CPU only?

What's the fascination with 50 Mbps?

Was the rendered file actually 50 Mbps?

Nope, I didn't try to render it with CPU because it's much slower than NV Encoder - which in 1080p is not making any issue.

Why not 50mbps?
Yes, rendered file is: Overall bit rate                         : 49.7 Mb/s.

I am experimenting with rendering to 4k output because before I was making all my movies in 1080p so I know what bitrate is the best for me but with 4k I don't know it yet so that's why I am experimenting. I need to have the best possible quality with the lowest files size because weddings which I am doing usually have 75minutes so...

I don't see any bad things with 50mbps and I think that it is not a clue here. What bitrate are you setting when you render 4k output movie when you have about 60minutes movies?

3POINT wrote on 2/15/2023, 1:09 PM

Use Voukoder for Vegas to render. Voukoder automatically sets necessary bitrate to preserve quality. A max bitrate setting of 50 Mbps as in your rendertemplate is definitely to low for 4k. Also rendering with CBR makes no sense.

john_dennis wrote on 2/15/2023, 2:39 PM

@Komaryt said: "I need to have the best possible quality with the lowest files size.."

As @3POINT said, your stated goal excludes constant bit rate from the equation.

Using Voukoder with three 30 second projects of different complexity produced the following data with my settings.

High Complexity

General
Complete name                            : F:\File Size by Complexity\PQ Source - High Complexity.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 135 MiB
Duration                                 : 30 s 40 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 37.8 Mb/s
Writing application                      : Voukoder (VEGAS)

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 3 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 29 s 997 ms
Bit rate                                 : 37.9 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.152
Stream size                              : 135 MiB (100%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 164
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=18 / lookahead_threads=3 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=30 / keyint_min=15 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=30 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=22.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 30 s 40 ms
Source duration                          : 30 s 16 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Nominal bit rate                         : 3 402 b/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 320 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Source stream size                       : 12.5 KiB (0%)
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1

Medium Complexity

General
Complete name                            : F:\File Size by Complexity\PQ Source - Medium Complexity.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 64.7 MiB
Duration                                 : 30 s 40 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 18.1 Mb/s
Writing application                      : Voukoder (VEGAS)

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 3 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 29 s 997 ms
Bit rate                                 : 18.1 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.073
Stream size                              : 64.7 MiB (100%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 164
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=18 / lookahead_threads=3 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=30 / keyint_min=15 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=30 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=22.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 30 s 40 ms
Source duration                          : 30 s 16 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Nominal bit rate                         : 3 424 b/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 320 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Source stream size                       : 12.5 KiB (0%)
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1

Low Complexity

General
Complete name                            : F:\File Size by Complexity\PQ Source-Low Complexity.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 4.90 MiB
Duration                                 : 30 s 40 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 1 368 kb/s
Writing application                      : Voukoder (VEGAS)

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 3 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 29 s 997 ms
Bit rate                                 : 1 359 kb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.005
Stream size                              : 4.86 MiB (99%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 164
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=18 / lookahead_threads=3 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=30 / keyint_min=15 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=30 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=22.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 30 s 40 ms
Source duration                          : 30 s 16 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Nominal bit rate                         : 3 515 b/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 320 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Source stream size                       : 12.9 KiB (0%)
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1

 

Remember, if you have any complaints with the sample video. It has been re-encoded by the Vegas web site.

Komaryt wrote on 2/16/2023, 2:48 PM

Use Voukoder for Vegas to render. Voukoder automatically sets necessary bitrate to preserve quality. A max bitrate setting of 50 Mbps as in your rendertemplate is definitely to low for 4k. Also rendering with CBR makes no sense.

Could you give me some article how to render it properly? I am asking because constant bitrate passed many test when I was rendering to 1080p and I didn't change anything for 5-6 years now. I always set the same bitrates as maximum as average and the quality was perfect for me and file sizes were great too.

I am scared about using Voukoder because when I had problems in Vegas 17 that rendering was too slow someone told me to try Voukoder and it made many more problems than original Vegas rendering templates. In Voukoder rendering was freezing or after almost 90 minutes of rendering I had so many artefacts on output movie. I didn't have that when I was using Vegas render engine so I stopped using Voukoder faster than I started with it :D

3POINT wrote on 2/16/2023, 3:27 PM

After downloading latest Voukoder 12.2 and connector for Vegas 18-20, perform Voukoder installation and make sure the connector installs in the VEGAS Pro20.0 programme folder.

After correct installation, Voukoder will show up in your renderlist. To begin with, choose the first rendertemplate and hit the render button. Do nothing else, just watching after the render the resulting quality at the incredible filesize.

Komaryt wrote on 2/20/2023, 10:30 AM

After downloading latest Voukoder 12.2 and connector for Vegas 18-20, perform Voukoder installation and make sure the connector installs in the VEGAS Pro20.0 programme folder.

After correct installation, Voukoder will show up in your renderlist. To begin with, choose the first rendertemplate and hit the render button. Do nothing else, just watching after the render the resulting quality at the incredible filesize.

Hi, thank you for tips.
I tried Voukoder with settings what you told me to do and I need to say that looks terrible. I render wedding movie in 1080p and okay it weight small because 70min have only 2.67Gb and movie with my preset weight 13,5Gb but quality from Voukoder specially when was party is terrible. When I stop movie there is nothing sharp, one big pixels it looks like it is downloaded from youtube. File rendered with my settings is much better that's why I have - for you - strange bitrates but it pass quality tests for me. If I would be my client and saw output file with this quality I would be pissed off that I pay that much for that crap quality.

With 4k there was not any artefacts but I render only 2 mini movies so I can't tell more about it but there is still a problem with Vegas render engine and it is making artefacts still. I change bitrates, I change project settings but nothing helped. Files are not corrupted because with Voukoder there was not any artefacts but now when I made this test with 1080p quality I am scared to use it with 4k because I don't want to give my clients pixelate movie.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 2/20/2023, 12:52 PM

Looks like your source footage is Hevc, in which case you should try different settings in Vegas i/o preferences. Focus on the legacy-hevc checkbox and see if your nvidia gpu is selected for decoding. Since you have no Intel igpu, you will get a very different processing pathways with legacy-hevc unchecked. I think that when legacy-hevc is selected, it preempts the decoding gpu selection. Unchecking legacy-hevc will activate the gpu selection and let you choose between Nvidia or None. Suggest you try all 3 possibilities and see if any makes the artifacts go away.

Also, suggest that if you use Magix presets, that you do not modify them the way you did. If you really want CBR, check the constant bitrate box, set the constant bit-rate that you want, and make sure RC Mode also changes to match. That helps with footage exhibiting lots of motion. But for more sedate wedding scenes, VBR is probably better. In which case I recommend you start with a default setting for the bitrate. If you want to go higher, raise the minimum and also raise the max to double the min. The min is more important. I use the same approach for Magix Avc and Hevc presets although generally, a 20% lower bitrate yields me similar Hevc quality as Avc. If you want to use Voukoder h.264 NVENC instead, start with their default and lower the numeric quantizer to increase bitrate and quality... I shoot for a render file-size in the neighborhood of a Magix preset render and pick the one that looks better to me.

3POINT wrote on 2/20/2023, 1:19 PM

After downloading latest Voukoder 12.2 and connector for Vegas 18-20, perform Voukoder installation and make sure the connector installs in the VEGAS Pro20.0 programme folder.

After correct installation, Voukoder will show up in your renderlist. To begin with, choose the first rendertemplate and hit the render button. Do nothing else, just watching after the render the resulting quality at the incredible filesize.

Hi, thank you for tips.
I tried Voukoder with settings what you told me to do and I need to say that looks terrible. I render wedding movie in 1080p and okay it weight small because 70min have only 2.67Gb and movie with my preset weight 13,5Gb but quality from Voukoder specially when was party is terrible. When I stop movie there is nothing sharp, one big pixels it looks like it is downloaded from youtube. File rendered with my settings is much better that's why I have - for you - strange bitrates but it pass quality tests for me. If I would be my client and saw output file with this quality I would be pissed off that I pay that much for that crap quality.

With 4k there was not any artefacts but I render only 2 mini movies so I can't tell more about it but there is still a problem with Vegas render engine and it is making artefacts still. I change bitrates, I change project settings but nothing helped. Files are not corrupted because with Voukoder there was not any artefacts but now when I made this test with 1080p quality I am scared to use it with 4k because I don't want to give my clients pixelate movie.

You definitely did something wrong (what? I can't tell you from here), only I can tell that the quality of Voukoder is unbeatable. I use Voukoder almost daily to render 4k and also to render 4k to 1080p. These downscales are of such high quality that on my 65" 4k TV at normal viewing distance, I can hardly see a difference between the 4k original and the 1080p downscale. No artifacts and crispy as hell.

Komaryt wrote on 2/23/2023, 2:09 PM

After downloading latest Voukoder 12.2 and connector for Vegas 18-20, perform Voukoder installation and make sure the connector installs in the VEGAS Pro20.0 programme folder.

After correct installation, Voukoder will show up in your renderlist. To begin with, choose the first rendertemplate and hit the render button. Do nothing else, just watching after the render the resulting quality at the incredible filesize.

Hi, thank you for tips.
I tried Voukoder with settings what you told me to do and I need to say that looks terrible. I render wedding movie in 1080p and okay it weight small because 70min have only 2.67Gb and movie with my preset weight 13,5Gb but quality from Voukoder specially when was party is terrible. When I stop movie there is nothing sharp, one big pixels it looks like it is downloaded from youtube. File rendered with my settings is much better that's why I have - for you - strange bitrates but it pass quality tests for me. If I would be my client and saw output file with this quality I would be pissed off that I pay that much for that crap quality.

With 4k there was not any artefacts but I render only 2 mini movies so I can't tell more about it but there is still a problem with Vegas render engine and it is making artefacts still. I change bitrates, I change project settings but nothing helped. Files are not corrupted because with Voukoder there was not any artefacts but now when I made this test with 1080p quality I am scared to use it with 4k because I don't want to give my clients pixelate movie.

You definitely did something wrong (what? I can't tell you from here), only I can tell that the quality of Voukoder is unbeatable. I use Voukoder almost daily to render 4k and also to render 4k to 1080p. These downscales are of such high quality that on my 65" 4k TV at normal viewing distance, I can hardly see a difference between the 4k original and the 1080p downscale. No artifacts and crispy as hell.

It's hard to do anything wrong when you need to click only one thing 😅 I choose option what you told me but really - for me quality in 1080p from voukoder just sucks but what can I expect from output file which has only 6055kb/s vs output files with my settings which has 30396kb/s. Okay, size is drastically smaller but quality.. naaah I won't use that.

3POINT wrote on 2/23/2023, 2:20 PM

@Komaryt can you upload (dropbox etc) a short original sample file (10 seconds is enough) of your camera footage?

RogerS wrote on 2/23/2023, 8:44 PM

In Voukoder you have to open the dialog box for custom settings, select a preset like "general recommended" and then hit apply. You can adjust the CRF number for quality and file size (lower number the higher the quality but larger the file size).

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

3POINT wrote on 2/24/2023, 4:24 AM

In Voukoder you have to open the dialog box for custom settings, select a preset like "general recommended" and then hit apply. You can adjust the CRF number for quality and file size (lower number the higher the quality but larger the file size).

Normally not necessary to customize, the default template (video project default, audio project default) uses CRF23, which gives very good quality at decent file sizes. A good template for novices to start with before digging further into Voukoder. Especially lowering the CRF rate could give severe problems with highly detailed video, because the max bitrate could exceed the max accepted bitrate of your TV (usually 100 Mbps) and causing hick-ups then.

Komaryt wrote on 3/2/2023, 6:29 PM

Hi!
Thank you all for your help! I really appreciate it.

I think that I fix this thing - the problem was because of new Nvidia drivers... i've got bluescreens which I didn't had for almost 4 years now. I installed newer drivers but it was only worse so I install drivers from february 2022 (last drivers which I install on old windows) and it is working for now.
Second thing which I change is this option:

I don't know how it could work but it just work.

But now I have other problem and it is 10-bit files workflow. I can't find any tips about that I only found tips for premiere pro but no for Magix Vegas.

Are 10bit files recognized automatically? I always had in project settings 8-bit (video levels) even when I had 10bit files from Canon R6 and I had no banding at all but now I change from canon to panasonic s5 II and I have so big banding which I cannot fix. The only fix is to change pixel format from 8-bit (video levels) to 32-bit floating point (video levels) and banding is so much smaller than it was before.
Is this workaround good? or am I doing something wrong?

RogerS wrote on 3/2/2023, 6:48 PM

That's not a workaround, it's how you edit high bit files in Vegas. Looks good to me.

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VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Former user wrote on 3/2/2023, 11:14 PM



But now I have other problem and it is 10-bit files workflow. I can't find any tips about that I only found tips for premiere pro but no for Magix Vegas.

Are 10bit files recognized automatically? I always had in project settings 8-bit (video levels) even when I had 10bit files from Canon R6 and I had no banding at all but now I change from canon to panasonic s5 II and I have so big banding which I cannot fix. The only fix is to change pixel format from 8-bit (video levels) to 32-bit floating point (video levels) and banding is so much smaller than it was before.
Is this workaround good? or am I doing something wrong?

Vegas works the way Premiere used to a decade ago, default was 8bit, but you could choose to work in 32bit float, and like Vegas, Premiere would slow right down because the processing was done on CPU. Premiere, Resolve, and modern NLE's all use the GPU for this processing now, and because of that, there's no confusion when adding a 8bit or 10bit file, because all processing is 32bit float. I am thinking therefore Vegas was never upgraded to use the GPU for this processing. Premiere still has the 32bit option, but it's legacy, as long as you're using a GPU the processing is in 32bit precision

This demonstrates the difference between 8bit and 32bit, I blowout the levels, then attempt to restore levels, but that data is lost, the process was destructive, the picture can't be restored, but with 32bit the clipping is not destructive and can be restored. You don't want to lose all that data using 8bit.

set wrote on 3/2/2023, 11:30 PM

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/your-preferred-32bit-full-range-pixel-format-workflow-pipeline--139307/

Here's one of the discussion I had around 32bit workflow.

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Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/3/2023, 5:31 AM

The blocking in the render settings may derive from a bit rate, that could be to low. If that derives from rendering to HD, well with UHD you have 4x the number ob pixels. So I would run short tests with increasing the bit rate.

To choose the settings as "variable" bit rate, but to have the same figures for the average and the maximum bit rate makes no sense. You bring in a fixed bitrate by those settings, and here I would also tend to use a VBR and follow the advice by Howard. While the average bitrate should define the size of the file for the typical encoder (and Vegas uses nothing that is different here), the maximum bit rate should be higher to bring in some reserves for critical parts, like movement. So, there must be a significant difference between average and maximum bit rate.

This is where I would start - playing with the bit rates in the encoder settings.

If you change a lot of points at the same time, like to take another encoder or now the 32bit workflow. There is the danger that those changes may get lost, since it may take some time to learn how to apply those changes really.

Going into a 32bit workflow could make some sense as an extra learning exercise since you work with 10bit long GOP HEVC footage. While I think that it is not true the the 32bit mode is not supported by the GPU, it is still a mode that requires a lot of calculation power. So it could be necessary to reduce the preview quality during editing. Since you have used a Cinelike template, it is not necessary to apply any ACES transformation. Take care about the settings for the range - while the mediaenocder show legal range (what is a metadate setting only, the reallity can be different), the project settings are full range. So, what have you shoot really? Be aware that wrong settings could result in clipping the footage.

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Komaryt wrote on 3/3/2023, 7:02 AM

The blocking in the render settings may derive from a bit rate, that could be to low. If that derives from rendering to HD, well with UHD you have 4x the number ob pixels. So I would run short tests with increasing the bit rate.

To choose the settings as "variable" bit rate, but to have the same figures for the average and the maximum bit rate makes no sense. You bring in a fixed bitrate by those settings, and here I would also tend to use a VBR and follow the advice by Howard. While the average bitrate should define the size of the file for the typical encoder (and Vegas uses nothing that is different here), the maximum bit rate should be higher to bring in some reserves for critical parts, like movement. So, there must be a significant difference between average and maximum bit rate.

This is where I would start - playing with the bit rates in the encoder settings.

If you change a lot of points at the same time, like to take another encoder or now the 32bit workflow. There is the danger that those changes may get lost, since it may take some time to learn how to apply those changes really.

Going into a 32bit workflow could make some sense as an extra learning exercise since you work with 10bit long GOP HEVC footage. While I think that it is not true the the 32bit mode is not supported by the GPU, it is still a mode that requires a lot of calculation power. So it could be necessary to reduce the preview quality during editing. Since you have used a Cinelike template, it is not necessary to apply any ACES transformation. Take care about the settings for the range - while the mediaenocder show legal range (what is a metadate setting only, the reallity can be different), the project settings are full range. So, what have you shoot really? Be aware that wrong settings could result in clipping the footage.

Okay but in short description - to avoid lot of banding when my footage is shoot in 10bit I should change pixel format from 8bit to 32bit? I read on internet that 32bit is mostly used in HDR footage. I render some preview for my tests and it was soooooooo long so in wedding use I don't think that changing to 32bit make sense for me because my 60min video will render almost 5-6hours... That's a lot.

RogerS wrote on 3/3/2023, 7:21 AM

Ignore the internet, you are with experts here.

Yes, when your footage is 10-bit and you are shooting formats where greater precision is required (log, etc.) you must use 32-bit video or 32-bit full mode in Vegas to avoid banding and artifacts. HDR is also 32-bit mode but has different settings in Vegas.

If that's too much for your system to render, shoot picture profiles in your camera that are closer to a finished image (not log) and stay in 8-bit mode in Vegas. For Sony, that could be S-Cinestyle or Cine 2, for Panasonic Cinelike-D, etc.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7