VEGAS Pro 15 Update 4 (build 321) - General Discussion

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Coriaman wrote on 3/10/2018, 5:31 PM

Strange behaviour of the docking windows. First screenshot is my favorite saved window layout. When I close VPro15 and open it directly again the last window is swapped with the second window. When I do the same again, this happens again but is then in the right prefered order, till I close and open VPro15 again.

That has been reported a number of times and is in our backlog to resolve.

I have the same problem.

fr0sty wrote on 3/10/2018, 6:51 PM

Thought I was doing good, that encode froze too. I'm stuck... I don't know what to do and I have a pissed off client blowing up my phone. I did submit a report, and was told to upgrade to the new version, which has done nothing to help and telling them that has not yet been responded to.

I can't seem to get this project out of Vegas to save me. I would upload it for someone else to test out, but the entire project is over 150gb worth of data and I don't have that much online storage.

I tried to see if switching to ProRes would help in version 261, it didn't. Started getting the "system is low on memory" errors again. This problem seems to persist across 261, 311, and 321.

Trying Mainconcept AVC CPU only in 261 now... Let's hope this isn't several more hours wasted.

Nope... low memory error again, and the few frames it did render had glitchy color.

 

 

BruceUSA wrote on 3/10/2018, 7:04 PM

Any one noticed Render Loop Region only is missing grayed out in this new B321

joseph-w wrote on 3/10/2018, 7:33 PM

Any one noticed Render Loop Region only is missing grayed out in this new B321

No problem w/ that here.

joseph-w wrote on 3/10/2018, 7:42 PM

Thought I was doing good, that encode froze too. I'm stuck... I don't know what to do and I have a pissed off client blowing up my phone. I did submit a report, and was told to upgrade to the new version, which has done nothing to help and telling them that has not yet been responded to.

I can't seem to get this project out of Vegas to save me. I would upload it for someone else to test out, but the entire project is over 150gb worth of data and I don't have that much online storage.

I tried to see if switching to ProRes would help in version 261, it didn't. Started getting the "system is low on memory" errors again. This problem seems to persist across 261, 311, and 321.

Trying Mainconcept AVC CPU only in 261 now... Let's hope this isn't several more hours wasted.

Nope... low memory error again, and the few frames it did render had glitchy color.

 

I give up... screw it, I'm buying/renting premiere. I'll move on to resolve from there once I learn it. It's been fun, Vegas. I've used you exclusively since 2003... but this is hopeless. 4 versions now my GPU acceleration has been either partially or completely broken... the same acceleration that was advertised as working when I paid for it. Now I can't even get a render out with it turned off.

Wow that sucks. A few potential suggestions:

1) Set dynamic RAM preview to 0 (Options/Videos/0) - If you've used Vegas since '03 you probably tried that though <-- (EDIT: Just noticed you tried this on the last page)

2) Check Windows Virtual Memory settings (and disc space): Windows Settings/Search for Advanced System Settings/ Advanced / Performance / Advanced / Virtual Memory/Change. If it's set for automatic try setting it manual and setting high values on an SSD or quick drive. Also make sure none of your drives are close to full.

Have you watched in task manager during rendering to see how high the cpu/memory usage is across the system?

Sorry if you've done all the general troubleshooting bs - I just feel bad that this is turning in to an issue w/ a client.

EDIT:

 

Could you try batch converting some of your source files to Cineform? I used to get that green-glitching and dropped frames years ago when I was using some different formats. Cineform is "lossless" now free/open-source and for me works outstanding w/ Vegas (no slow down / never had memory issues).
 

fr0sty wrote on 3/10/2018, 7:50 PM

I SEEM to have figured it out... I'm still rendering, so it could still crap out anytime now, but here is what I did.

After downgrading to version 261, and realizing that there were still memory issues going on (that I don't remember having prior), I downgraded my GPU driver to the version that was mentioned by another user in this thread earlier as having worked for them. Well, it didn't. I still got memory errors. So, I went into Neat Video's settings. It was set to use 7 of my 16 cores along with the GPU, and it had a 25% cap on the total amount of GPU RAM it was allowed to use. This was set that way due to the results of a performance test I had done that tells you what your optimum setup should be in Neat Video (Vegas really should consider doing this, it's really cool.). I ran that test again, and it said the optimum settings for my project and its settings would be 10 cores + GPU acceleration. I left GPU RAM usage at 25%, and then hit render. Not only did it start rendering using NVENC with timeline GPU on (so4 enabled too), but it is rendering quite fast, about 10-15fps at 4k with effects on the timeline for color correction, luts, levels, curves, etc.

I hope this works, and if it does, these posts help anyone else who may have this issue.

 

The part I don't understand is why I was having these issues getting anything rendered even when I was disabling all GPU usage and neat video as well... but whatever, it worked.

AVsupport wrote on 3/11/2018, 12:06 AM

[Bug] 'Selectively Prerender Video' using nVENC does result in NO valid video file being written into the designated prerender folder. does not exist. doesn't work. No prerendered-'bar' indication on top of clip.

So is my feeling (it is not working) for 'dynamic RAM preview'.

However, 'Rendering to new track' DOES work with NVENC, so far so good (and fast, even HQ).

@fr0sty , have you tried changing your RAM assignments in the [shift]preferneces>internal to higher amounts? have you considered, just to get you by, to deliver your projects in 8bit (this is what i'm looking at right now..)

 

Last changed by AVsupport on 3/11/2018, 12:55 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest drivers

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

fr0sty wrote on 3/11/2018, 7:40 AM

AV, changing the settings to that seemed to make Vegas unstable, it just crashed randomly while I wasn't even really doing anything. So, I halved those adjusted numbers, then set max RAM preview to 0, deleted the footage from the rehearsal dinner from the project (none of that is featured in the highlight reel), and rendered to a new track using NVENC. That combination seems to have worked. All GPU accel is on, and so is Neat Video. We'll see what happens once it gets to the point where it has to call up Neat Video, hopefully it works. I'm getting about 10fps at 4K (32bit project) with a bunch of color correction, level adjustments, curves, and LUTs applied to the various tracks, so not too bad.

I do think that it has to do with the project being so large... I have the rehearsal dinner, ceremony, reception, then highlight video on the same timeline, so it's about 2 hours worth of video, and the ceremony has 4 angles. I edit it that way because it makes going back and grabbing pre-edited highlights from the edited project easier. I wish there was a way to make subclips that reference more than one video event, and send them into a different project. I need to be able to do that, because sometimes the clip I am using for the highlight will change camera angles, and I can't go through the trouble of re-syncing the angles for every shot that does that. That would spare me from having to render out each highlight that I need while still editing the highlights in their own separate project. I can end up with dozens to hundreds of clips that I grab from the various parts of the video, so project nesting won't work. So, I can either edit everything on one timeline, spend a bunch of time rendering intermediate highlights and losing quality in the process, or do it the hard way and grab the video I need from the raw files imported into a new project. If I could just highlight a loop region, right clip and say "make subclip", and Vegas make me a subclip (that can be sent to another project) that contains everything in that region (every event) without rendering, it would make my life much easier. As it is now, I can make a subclip from one event only (so no multi-angle subclips), and I can't figure out how to get those into another project once I do.

fr0sty wrote on 3/11/2018, 9:56 AM

So, here's where I'm at... I spent literally an entire 24 hours straight working on this, and I still don't have a video.

Messing with internal memory settings only makes things more unstable. Returned to default.

Removing a large amount of unused media from the project (about 30-40GB) didn't help.

RAM preview set to 0 (set to 200 it is a guaranteed crash/hang)

So4 enabled, GPU enabled, NVENC enabled, Neat Video Enabled: Encode Freezes at or shortly after first frame or low memory error

So4 enabled, GPU enabled, NVENC enabled, Neat Video Disabled: either hangs or low memory error

So4 disabled, GPU enabled, NVENC enabled, Neat Video enabled: Render hits a certain point, Neat Video complains about running out of memory. This didn't happen in v261.

So4 disabled, GPU enabled, Mainconcept CPU render, Neat Video disabled: Renders nothing but black frames, or if it renders anything it will start jumbling up frames, playing the video backwards then forwards until it decides to skip to the next scene, then repeating.

ProRes: Same as above, either black frames or the back/forth stuttering. Sometimes this problem manifests in the form of the image flickering darker and brighter from one frame to the next as well. GPU accel doesn't matter, it can all be off, as well as neat video, and it will do this.

CPU Only Magix AVC: Appears to work, but takes 30 hours to render a 10 minute video. this is what I had to do in order to get the rough draft video out the first time using v311. I tried to again earlier today, but couldn't... I think it was the dynamic RAM preview not being at 0, so I'm going to try again.

None of the other recommendations Nick gave will work, as I can't render anything out of this project to put into another one, so I have to figure out how to make this one work. So far so good on the CPU only encode, hopefully in a day I can report back with good news.

OldSmoke wrote on 3/11/2018, 12:05 PM

@fr0sty Here is my thought on this. I know that you are frustrated and I would be too. I am still ion SVP13 and from the looks of it will be on it for a long time. That aside, if I am in your situation, I would try and render to a codec that is more familiar to Vegas and that is anything in the MPEG area. ProRes isn’t “native” to Vegas nor is the new NVENC, both were introduced recently.

I would also try and render to XAVC-I. Then I would use Catalysat Browse to render to an MP4 AVC codec. XAVC-I holds up very well as an intermediate and doesn’t require as much space as AVI uncompressed. Also, as suggested already, I would switch to 8bit, 32bit is very compute intensive with little gain as your final delivery won’t be at 10bit anyways.

I am not sure about your complete hardware specs, but it does sometimes help to reduce the number of interup shares by the various hardware component, if that is what happens in your setup.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x ASUS Fury-X
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM

wwjd wrote on 3/11/2018, 1:20 PM

No GUI issues now. But some buildup after a few minutes of editing, and it locks up, stops working and I have to quit out. Save, save, save, save, quit, restart - seems to be the new process.

OMG. 3 edits and it locks up again. Very tiny timeline so far Going for a systems reboot, but these failures feel quick and new.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/11/2018, 3:26 PM

Hmm, I have here a test project with EVA1 uhd footage, where I also use Neat Video 4 and the lut filter. Rendering works here slow, but it works. Maybe a difference between the Systems is that I have here two GPUs (one R9 390X but also a Quadro K4200) and use the Quadro for NVENC Rendering while the R9 390X is used for the GPU acceleration in Vegas?

AVsupport wrote on 3/11/2018, 4:26 PM

@fr0sty , sorry to hear your pain :-/ shame the above didn't work for you..perhaps this is an AMD thing..I was able to render 1 hr + 4K quite OK, must say though NVENC even on HQ doesn't look really that great. [wonder if it's worth the 32-bit extra computing pain if this is the output?]

What about your RAM? I couldn't help myself noticing you got 64.. that's massive..I'm running 2x8 XMP (3000) quite happily, and they don't get used all up alas..usually max out at ~10MB. Is your RAM stable, are they all identical? Perhaps too much goodness?

Sidenote: has anyone yet managed to make NVENC look decent?

Last changed by AVsupport on 3/11/2018, 4:28 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

16GB (2x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest drivers

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

fr0sty wrote on 3/11/2018, 5:36 PM

So far, the CPU only encode is working, and it's going a little bit faster than before also, 10 hours vs 30. I'm on that scene at the end with Neat Video applied (some 180fps slomo that I had to boost the brightness on a bit), and so far it seems to be working ok, just as slowly as molasses crawling uphill, but it's working.

Once I can get this timeline cleared off and start a new project, I am going to do some tests to determine if these problems persist on smaller timelines or not. As I said, I have a lot of media on the timeline (total project size is 150GB roughly, but I removed about 30-40gb from it while troubleshooting. The number of files runs well into the dozens if not hundreds.

I will report back with my findings asap. Hopefully all of this leads to something being fixed... I'm determined to help sort this one out, as GPU RAM errors have plagued me since 15 launched. It seemed most stable when it first launched, honestly, everything worked, I just had to rewrap some of my GH5 media and the performance while editing wasn't that great. I see now they are really working hard to give us more performance, but it seems to be introducing memory management bugs in the process. I know how frustrating it us for us, I can only imagine how frustrating it is digging through millions of lines of code to try to find the bugs that can only be reproduced on certain hardware configs/project settings/project sizes/media types/etc.

Don't give up on us, Magix... but please, set aside announcing 16 until we can get a rock solid 15. Let's not move on with advertised features still not working properly.

I do really think that buying another GPU would help this problem, so I think that is my next plan of attack... having one GPU for timeline accel, the other for NVENC/Neat Video. I cannot use SLI in this instance, correct? Is this a hardware thing or is there a way Magix could eventually support an SLI'ed card?

I appreciate the suggestions, folks. Nick, I got the message from your friend, thanks for the recommendation. Hopefully I can help him.

fr0sty wrote on 3/11/2018, 6:00 PM

ALMOST finished, got a BSOD (the plot thickens... IRQL not less or equal). My ram is all the same type and speed, half is a different brand. Going to try some hardware troubleshooting.

I'm thinking this is from the gpu driver I attempted to roll back, as it now says version 0.00.

OldSmoke wrote on 3/11/2018, 6:38 PM

My ram is all the same type and speed, half is a different brand.

That is not a recommended hardware setup. If you are running quad channel memory, then all modules MUST be matched. I also recommend not to clock RAM beyond what the CPU's controller can handle.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x ASUS Fury-X
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM

fifonik wrote on 3/11/2018, 6:54 PM

@fr0sty For me it looks like hardware failure. Do not overclock. Set conservative timings. Stress test your GPU with Furmark. Remove a half of your RAM and test. If the issue persist -- remove inserted RAM and add previously removed. RAM issues could be very hard to diagnose: I have had experience with faulty RAM that could not be detected by Windows Memory Diagnostics and Memtest86+ even with long tests. However, replacing the RAM (under lifetime warranty) fixed the issue completely.

P.S. Could you also create a separate threads for your issues. It's not very convenient for others to read about your issues over and over on general thread. Thanks.

Camcorder: Panasonic X920

Desktop: MB: MSI B350M PRO-VDH, CPU: AMD Ryzen 1600, RAM: G'Skill 16 GB DDR4 2400, Graphics card: MSI RX470 4GB, SSD: Samsung 850 EVO SATA 250MB, HDDs: Seagate & Toshiba 2TB, OS: Windows 10 64-bit 1809

NLE: Vegas Pro 11, 12, 13, 15

fr0sty wrote on 3/11/2018, 6:55 PM

I haven't clocked anything above stock. So far 6 months of use without a single issue, so I don't think that the RAM configuration is any issue. This problem didn't pop up until this update, so it was something the update did unless I just by chance had some hardware go out on me at that exact moment.

I'm trying disabling all GPU accel in Neat Video, as once I get the GPU render working, it is the main culprit in making Vegas crash beyond that point. I'm rendering using NVENC now, I'll let you know if this works. If so, anyone else using Neat Video in VP16 321 should consider doing the same thing. It seems as if Vegas is aggressively trying to hog all available VRAM, and when NV comes along trying to take its chunk (no matter how small I set that chunk to be), that is when Vegas hangs. Oddly, I'll start getting errors about Neat Video running out of VRAM long before it is supposed to be called up in the project. As I said earlier, NV isn't applied until one scene at the end of the video, and I start getting crashes about NV running out of memory in the middle of the video, several minutes before the scene with NV applied comes up.

wwjd wrote on 3/11/2018, 6:59 PM

I uninstalled clean, and REINSTALLED all Vegas's now. Had to finish an edit in 14, hesitant to even use 15 now, and 13 - my trusty backup - will not even register now. :(

david-ruby wrote on 3/11/2018, 9:23 PM

Finally had a longer time to work with update.

I have to say my xavc-s footage is still not as rock solid with a new blue color fast 2 plug on and simple edits between I get a stutter here and there playing through my footage. Sometimes consistent stutter then I go to the edit where the cut between the 2 files are and it is gone. But shows up upon playback of whole file. Weird. Same fx and setup in premiere does not do this at all. Very rock solid no hesitations. Kinda at a lil loss on this. Settings are at best full on both daws. Something is just a lil off on vegas but can't find it.

fr0sty wrote on 3/11/2018, 10:45 PM

daws? Don't you mean NLEs?

I was able to resolve my problem finally... When Nick suggested exporting the part of the project I was working on to a new project, I thought I was out of luck because I couldn't render anything. I was unaware that if you have more than one instance of Vegas open, you can copy any event from it to the new instance. so, I selected every clip in the highlight video at once, cut them to the clipboard, and pasted them into a new project. I had to redo all of my color grading and fx, and the first time Neat Video crashed saying that it was given invalid data, something about gamma. So, I restarted, enabled so4compoundplug.dll again (I had turned it off earlier for testing), and was able to get the render going. Everything went fine until the last 3 scenes, then the video started glitching up really bad, freezing, stuttering. etc. So, I dropped the project settings to 8 bit, and it rendered out properly that time.

 

So, in summary, to help anyone else who might come across a similar issue with this version:

VP15 v321 doesn't like long projects. Keep them short, or expect lots of crashes, low memory errors, neat video running out of GPU RAM, encodes not encoding at all, etc.

If you already have a long project that is crashing, Copy/Paste what you need into a new instance of Vegas to avoid encoding.

If using Neat Video, Rendering to 4K, and using a GTX970, it doesn't like 32bit projects, so switch it to 8 before rendering. This is what causes the glitching in the video, or black frames.

Make sure so4compoundplug.dll is ENABLED (that's a welcomed first!)

Now I have a beautifully rendered video, took about 40 minutes to complete (10 minutes long, some scenes with neat video applied), and a happy client who is no longer blowing up my phone.

Thanks for the suggestions and patience with my flood of posts. I wasn't sure if making a new thread would be what was preferred or not, since this problem was related to a bug introduced with this new version. Hopefully these posts save someone else this same headache.

 

Here's the video that resulted, if anyone cares to see it.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=13ypABDQdDF-Tre4kFaVpb9Maaw3FjCXb

 

fifonik wrote on 3/12/2018, 1:49 AM

switch it to 8 before rendering

After switching from 32-bit pixel format to 8-bit pixel format it is highly recommended to check every fragment that's levels were corrected as it is possible that results would be changed dramatically. Conversion from 8-bit to 32-bit pixel format is safe.

Camcorder: Panasonic X920

Desktop: MB: MSI B350M PRO-VDH, CPU: AMD Ryzen 1600, RAM: G'Skill 16 GB DDR4 2400, Graphics card: MSI RX470 4GB, SSD: Samsung 850 EVO SATA 250MB, HDDs: Seagate & Toshiba 2TB, OS: Windows 10 64-bit 1809

NLE: Vegas Pro 11, 12, 13, 15

Nick Hope wrote on 3/12/2018, 2:06 AM

..I was unaware that if you have more than one instance of Vegas open, you can copy any event from it to the new instance. so, I selected every clip in the highlight video at once, cut them to the clipboard, and pasted them into a new project. I had to redo all of my color grading and fx...

Why not do it the other way round? Just copy the project, delete the unwanted stuff, do a "Remove All Unused Media From Project", then save. Then when you've got your intermediates (XAVC-I, MagicYUV or whatever) from the smaller projects, recompile them together in a new project.