VEGAS Pro 15 Update 5 (build 361) - General Discussion

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Shinra Bansho wrote on 5/29/2018, 1:50 AM

It looks like VEGAS Pro 15 (b361) does not like to have both VCE and QSV enabled simultaneously, at least, on my PC. I disabled iGPU (HD530) on the Intel i7 6700K in BIOS, and VEGAS Pro 15 (b361) finally managed to get through the VCE render. Speed wise, tho', the render of a project length of 6 minutes and 2 seconds consisting of 5 x UHD (3840 x 2160 30p) multicam footage, down-rez of which to a 1920x1080 30p MP4, took 4:54 (4 minutes and 54 seconds). However, the QSV render of the same project took only 3:54, one minute shorter than that of VCE. I am not sure if the result on the VCE is reasonable from the developer's point of view but, on my PC, I intend to stick with QSV for the time being.

Last changed by Shinra Bansho on 5/29/2018, 7:15 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

GIGABYTE GA-Z170N-WiFi, 32GB RAM, i7 6770K, San Disk 480GB SSD, Sea Gate 4TB HDD 7200 rpm, Radeon Sapphire Nitro+ RX 580 8GB, Windows 10 Pro Version 1703 (OS Build 15063.726)

Brendon wrote on 5/29/2018, 3:26 AM

Waiting for update to download - I long for an Intel CPU without the Intel Management Engine where Hong Kong Microsoft "trusted installers" bypass my firewall and re-install OS services in front of me and activate them without a re-boot.

Anyway, just thought I would like to share that with you while I wait for the download. It should be downloaded seven times by now with the 10GB optical connection - but I cant use it. Why? Don't ask - though secretly I want you too. I prefer to use an old phone factory reset three times a week as a modem at 500kb/s...make a coffee. A few whimsical comments on the thread. Laugh about the old Commodore 64 and the data cassette...45 minute loading times...and maybe it worked.

Almost there...looking good with the comments.

I cried, actually cried with build 321. Then I cried some more when it was all fixed with a Nvidia driver update. A two hours master piece was cut to an hour. Fortunately, casting "defective pearls" to swine, no one noticed how bad and disjointed it was.

All done! Look up IRATEMONK on Snowdens NSA Malware list. Thats me - a long battle with Australian Signals Directorate. Intel Management Engine...where would I be without you? Non "memory exceptioned".

Reyfox wrote on 5/29/2018, 3:36 AM

@Shinra Bansho, it's very possible VP doesn't like having both running. I know with some other editors, it's either/or too. Which GPU did you use? RX580? For "me" with all AMD system, the speed boost is way amazing. Instead of doing the long render to HEVC with just the CPU, it now renders better than real time. For "me", this is much much better. Also, the compressed file is even smaller. Have you compared file sizes?

Shinra Bansho wrote on 5/29/2018, 4:18 AM

@Reyfox, I now use RX580. Given that both VCE and QSV provides me with a reasonable and similar render speed (both better than real time unless heavily FX'ed), I am actually back on the prior disc image (Windows 10 Pro 1703) and GPU driver (12.2.2) where I feel VEGAS Pro (b321) works more stably and reliably. I did not have a chance to compare the sizes of the compressed files via different codecs.

Reyfox wrote on 5/29/2018, 4:31 AM

@Shinra Bansho, you don't have to compare the size of many different codecs, just two. One from using only Intel and one from using AMD, both at the same resolution. The AMD VCE rendered the same UHD 4K file smaller and the equivalent Intel HEVC 25p which exports to a bitrate of 40Mbps. The AMD VCE 25p exported out to bitrate of 26Mbps. So there seems to be more compression going on with the AMD VCE than Intel HEVC.

As for stability, I will be starting another 4K project in a few days and see. But just fumbling around in this current build with OS update, no problems..... yet......

bob-h wrote on 5/29/2018, 4:47 AM

@Shinra Bansho, you don't have to compare the size of many different codecs, just two. One from using only Intel and one from using AMD, both at the same resolution. The AMD VCE rendered the same UHD 4K file smaller and the equivalent Intel HEVC 25p which exports to a bitrate of 40Mbps. The AMD VCE 25p exported out to bitrate of 26Mbps. So there seems to be more compression going on with the AMD VCE than Intel HEVC.

Is anyone able to comment on a comparision of intel QSV for HEVC & NVENC for HEVC, How do those 2 compare compression, quality and speed wise?

Thankyou

Shinra Bansho wrote on 5/29/2018, 5:04 AM

@Reyfox, I will test that next time I feel a need to upgrade my copy of VEGAS Pro 15 to b361.

bob-h wrote on 5/29/2018, 6:03 AM

Guys i'm witnessing something that doesn't seem to make sense. Nvidia NVEC HEVC is much faster than Nvidia NVEC AVC. It's almost twice as fast. I havent' checked for quality yet, but surely the creation of h.265 files should take longer than h.264??

Mindmatter wrote on 5/29/2018, 7:49 AM

As soon as I uncheck "display frames in video preview during playback", my second preview monitor shows a freeze frame.

Nick Hope wrote on 5/29/2018, 8:29 AM

It looks like VEGAS Pro 15 (b361) does not like to have both VCE and QSV enabled simultaneously, at least, on my PC. I disabled iGPU (HD530) on the Intel i7 6700K in BIOS, and VEGAS Pro 15 (b361) finally managed to get through the VCE render...

@Shinra Bansho I understand this type of instability has been quite common recently, and that the new preference "Enable QSV Encoding and Decoding (where available)" was added in build 361 so that you don't have to disable QSV in the BIOS or Device Manager:

Shinra Bansho wrote on 5/29/2018, 9:03 AM

@Nick Hope, Thank you for the note. I will try that option next time I am on b361; Am currently back on b321 as this version is more stable on my PC.

So, this kind of instability is common? I wonder why VEGAS team does not disclose a piece of info as to on what systems (hardware and software) VEGAS Pro is guaranteed to achieve the intended features, whether VCE or otherwise, as advertized. Personally I am a bit tired of testing to find out what works and what works not. I tend to think VEGAS team should provide users with one or two model system configurations, both hardware (including but not limited to PC, motherboard, CPU, GPU, storage etc etc), just like Black Magic does for Resolve, and additionally the relevant software driver versions. It should be beneficial to both of users and the developer in order to avoid any unnecessary frustration/tension. Do you get to hear those from the developers?

Nick Hope wrote on 5/29/2018, 9:58 AM
So, this kind of instability is common?...

I maybe shouldn't have said "common". I know it has been seen on multiple dual GPU machines (Intel integrated graphics + either NVIDIA or AMD GPU).

...Do you get to hear those from the developers?

No. I think they always strive to support everything and keep Vegas "hardware neutral". I'm a little concerned that model system configurations would go out of date quickly. Users may have to update something or other to support another program, and then the system would be "out of spec" for Vegas. Plus, Windows 10 now has a life of its own with regard to drivers.

Cliff Etzel wrote on 5/29/2018, 12:06 PM
So, this kind of instability is common?...

I maybe shouldn't have said "common". I know it has been seen on multiple dual GPU machines (Intel integrated graphics + either NVIDIA or AMD GPU).

...Do you get to hear those from the developers?

No. I think they always strive to support everything and keep Vegas "hardware neutral". I'm a little concerned that model system configurations would go out of date quickly. Users may have to update something or other to support another program, and then the system would be "out of spec" for Vegas. Plus, Windows 10 now has a life of its own with regard to drivers.

I think that's one of the biggest reasons why AVID or Blackmagic has specific hardware specs - and AVID has been known in the past to state specific OS versions for Windows and MAC. The former is slow to use and render from - but is known for sock solid stability and Resolve has pretty high hardware requirements. Those who are held hostage by Adobe Premiere CC are constantly complaining about how the updates to Premiere will break the application - especially those using it on MAC hardware. Again I think if MAGIX would release a given set of components (Motherboard, CPU, RAM and especially GPU) for us DIY builders, it would go a long way in establishing a base stability for Vegas Pro. If Vegas does become unstable and it's installed on a known set of "Approved Hardware", it's more than likely not related to that and reverts back to the OS version or GPU drivers if one's computer has recently updated the OS or graphics drivers...

IAM4UK wrote on 5/29/2018, 12:12 PM

Just tested Build 361, and the main thing I'd hoped for seems (fingers crossed!) to work!
I rendered a ~50 second long 1080p24 AVC MP4 file two different ways: With Mainconcept, and with AMD VCE.
Results:
Mainconcept: 66 seconds, filesize 136Mb
AMD VCE: 34 seconds, filesize 75Mb

Both files look very good to me during playback. Since I make "48 Hour Film Project" short movies once per year, I will be thankful to have the ability to render in this output format at faster-than-realtime. (Although I will almost certainly trade some of that speed off for some image processing, color correction, etc.)

System: Intel i7-6850 at stock 3.6GHz, 6 cores, 12 threads; AMD Radeon 390 GPU; 64 GB of system RAM; Samsung M2NVMe 960 EVO 1TB render drive

Cliff Etzel wrote on 5/29/2018, 12:24 PM
So, this kind of instability is common?...

I maybe shouldn't have said "common". I know it has been seen on multiple dual GPU machines (Intel integrated graphics + either NVIDIA or AMD GPU).

...Do you get to hear those from the developers?

No. I think they always strive to support everything and keep Vegas "hardware neutral". I'm a little concerned that model system configurations would go out of date quickly. Users may have to update something or other to support another program, and then the system would be "out of spec" for Vegas. Plus, Windows 10 now has a life of its own with regard to drivers.

I ran into the same issue with enabling both QSV and my nVidia card - totally unusable and would rather use the discreet GPU and keep things simple and stable. So far that has worked well for me and why I'm REALLY impressed with this updated version - it literally has become rock solid stable on my computer whereas previous versions (and last version of Vegas 14) would randomly crash on close or timeline performance was seriously sub par.

This is the version of Vegas I've been pining for so long... Can't thank the developers enough for getting it stable (at least for me so far)

bob-h wrote on 5/29/2018, 2:29 PM
 

This is the version of Vegas I've been pining for so long... Can't thank the developers enough for getting it stable (at least for me so far)

This is what the release version should have been, only it's 6 months late, & we've all been unpaid beta testers up until now. Still need to confirm the bug where vegas hogs the cpu while it's doing absolutely nothing is gone. But things are looking up!

fr0sty wrote on 5/29/2018, 3:13 PM

I give them the benefit of the doubt... they inherited a huge mess, and they've done a good job of cleaning it up while enduring our fury. If they were a huge outfit like Adobe, I'd be upset, but they're a small team attempting to revive one of our favorite apps. Looks like they finally have...

Despite the annoyances, I've been running my business for 2 years exclusively on Magix's versions of Vegas... that has to count for something. I've made a lot of money off their product.

Cliff Etzel wrote on 5/29/2018, 3:15 PM
 

This is the version of Vegas I've been pining for so long... Can't thank the developers enough for getting it stable (at least for me so far)

This is what the release version should have been, only it's 6 months late, & we've all been unpaid beta testers up until now. Still need to confirm the bug where vegas hogs the cpu while it's doing absolutely nothing is gone. But things are looking up!

Well, I understand your frustration with what appears to be 6 months of non-paid beta testing and is why I held off for so long, but I was basically forced to make the switch after too many issues with my aging copy of Premiere Pro CS6 - random error messages, project files becoming corrupted and backups not opening either. Resolve isn't perfect - especially on less than ideal hardware specs for the software.

The CPU hog while doing nothing is something I haven't experienced so far. You should see what happens when editing in Premiere Pro - I have 16GB of RAM and I've experienced on more than one occasion Premiere using all but the last 3-4GB while just sitting there - all the while never utilizing more than a few % of my GPU or CPU. There's a reason custom builders recommend installing a minimum of 32GB of RAM for a Premiere editing computer. There is no perfect NLE solution (although I think Vegas is getting closer), but it seems the developers at MAGIX are trying - they aren't nearly as large as the other big names so I'm sure they are doing the best they can with the number of code monkey's they have at their disposal - and the v361 build seems to show they were working hard on squashing as many bugs as possible based upon the list of items addressed in the release notes.

gary-rebholz wrote on 5/29/2018, 3:23 PM

This is what the release version should have been, only it's 6 months late, & we've all been unpaid beta testers up until now.

I understand that you feel that way, and I don't even blame you. It's been frustrating for all of us as we dialed in on these vexing problems.

Just by way of explaining (hopefully not to be taken as making excuses), there is no way we could wait until now to release VP 15. We are not subsidized by a hardware side that enables us to give software away for free. The engine changes that caused this pain were massive. It's easy to read the comments here and come to the conclusion that those changes caused nothing but trouble. But in reality, thousands of users saw instant benefit by the extra format support and performance those changes brought--native Prores, HEVC, hardware acceleration, and so on. Most of the problems discussed here were in comparison to the whole, a tiny, but vocal, subset.

I truly understand that it doesn't feel like that to those of you who were affected, and again, I sincerely apologize. I also want to offer our sincere gratitude to those of you who helped us through to finding solutions to some very obscure issues. I am not happy that it took us this long to solve this for you, but rest assured it hasn't been because the team here is not working incredibly hard. And we continue to work hard so that we can continue to improve. We are moving steadily ahead, potentially with more VP 15 improvements, and certainly major new feature work for VP16 that addresses some long-desired features.

Thank you for keeping the faith. We are coming to the end of the ownership-transition work that we had to do in order to make VP our own, and moving into an exciting time of cool development work. We on the VEGAS team are more energized than ever. We hope that you are too.

ion-marin wrote on 5/29/2018, 3:31 PM

I am still not able to edit 4k smoothly using the TRIMMER because even if i build proxyes they don't load in trimmer (only in timeline). How hard can it be to fix this?

This is year 2018 and it's about time to address this issue. Some of us still use the trimmer window and it would be nice to scrubb smoothly using build proxies.

Cliff Etzel wrote on 5/29/2018, 3:43 PM

@gary-rebholz - Thank you for chiming in on this thread - yes, it has been frustrating and while there are advantages to being a small company with the ability to adapt to market forces, your detailed description of the pains is one of the challenges of being a small company (just like being a one man production company like many here on the forums).

As many have read about my ongoing frustrations with Vegas (including a temporary ban from the forums), I felt like I was in a no win situation... and I trialed Vegas 15 over and over (by way of restoring Windows before I installed the trial of Vegas 15 each time an updated build was released. My trial just expired for the last two builds and I upgraded to a full Vegas 15 edit license as of today after what I exeperienced were basically all the challenges I faced with the previous builds. Pass along my personal thanks to all the coders who I'm sure burned the midnight oil in getting this version out to those who are die hard Vegas users (myself being one again after having left Vegas back at version 11).

ermep01 wrote on 5/29/2018, 4:33 PM

Maybe I missed something, but in Preferences-Video-GPU acceleration I can only choose "Off".

I have a Nvidia Quadro M4000 (8Gb) installed. (For further specs see my signature.)

Last changed by ermep01 on 5/29/2018, 4:42 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

HP Z640 2 x Xeon E5-2620v4, Nvidia Quadro M4000 (8GB), 64GB DDR4, HP Z Turbo Drive G2 - 512GB (boot), 850EVO 2TB, 850EVO 256GB, WD30EFRX, LG-BD Burner, Vegas Pro 15 (361), Synology DS1812+ (28 TB), Panasonic HDC-HS700, DJI Mavic Pro (4k), Osmo Mobile, Windows 10 Pro 64 (1803)

Cliff Etzel wrote on 5/29/2018, 6:28 PM

Maybe I missed something, but in Preferences-Video-GPU acceleration I can only choose "Off".

I have a Nvidia Quadro M4000 (8Gb) installed. (For further specs see my signature.)

Could be the drivers... I've run into this before when installing certain drivers for my Radeon 6970 - I had to revert to an older driver before Vegas could see it.

RogerS wrote on 5/29/2018, 7:36 PM

I have been able to use Vegas 15 largely without issue on two computers, including my newish Dell XPS 15 i7 with GeForce 1050 and integrated graphics. In the last couple of days I had catastrophic crashes- not only would the program crash but it would take the OS down with it, with an error message that "Windows is Shutting Down" and then a restart. It would do this intermittently while editing and always on render using NVENC. I am using 361 at the moment.

I think I may have solved the problem- if I load Vegas by right-clicking on the program icon and click "run with graphics processor" and choose Nvidia, it seems to work without error. In the Nvidia settings I had chosen Vegas to work with the "high performance graphics processor" but perhaps it is not honoring that request?

Anyway, in case this is helpful to anyone else I wanted to post it.

By the way, thanks to the Magix team for bringing Vegas into the modern age. It's come a long way from where it was a few years back and is still a lot more intuitive and pleasant to use than say, Premiere.