VEGAS Pro 21 Build 108 General Discussion

Comments

fr0sty wrote on 8/21/2023, 4:45 PM

Yes, download Vegas pro 21 suite, then register with your 365 serial number. Your 365 subscription entitles you to every version of Vegas Pro Suite.

Last changed by fr0sty on 8/21/2023, 4:45 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Debbie-Whitmer wrote on 8/21/2023, 7:47 PM

Hello everyone,

The VEGAS Team is excited to announce the release of VEGAS Pro 21, build 108. Please use this thread to post general comments on this update. For details on VEGAS Pro 21, please read this post in the News forum.

If you are having any issues using the update or have specific questions, please create a new thread.

Thank you,

The VEGAS Creative Software Team

Hello!  I have two (2) questions.  I currently use and purchased Vegas Pro 20 as a standalone program with a one-time payment to own the software outright. 

(1) Is the new Vegas Pro 21 also a standalone program with a one-time payment to own the software outright or does it now require a monthly subscription and I have to keep paying continually for it? 

(2) They are calling Vegas Pro 21 “Vegas Pro 21 Suite” and “Vegas Pro Edit” and “Vegas Pro Post”.  I’m kind of confused as to why this was not just called Vegas Pro 21 but I am not sure which one of these to get that is just an upgrade to what I already have which is Vegas Pro 20.  And when the Vegas Pro 21 ad came out when I opened up my Vegas Pro 20 program, they were offering a lower price of $199.00.  Can someone answer both my questions please?  Thank you.  I look forward to your reply.

RogerS wrote on 8/21/2023, 8:12 PM

Debbie, you already posted this question- see replies on page 6.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

ALO wrote on 8/22/2023, 10:54 AM

VP21 -- what is up with the lagginess? Just trying to add an fx hangs up the program for a long time.

In my case this appears to be directly related to the use of the Flicker Control fx when set to the "timelapse" present and when "calculate" has been performed. Completely bogs VP down afterward. Note that Flicker Control (as in VP20) still affects per-channel brightness, meaning it introduces a color shift (bad), and in VP21, clicking the "?" for help directs you to the new online system, where Flicker Control help can no longer be found (also bad).

I'm also seeing lag issues with some VSTs but will need to do more testing before I post anything.

andyrpsmith wrote on 8/22/2023, 10:57 AM

@ALO Not seeing that myself. In any case you will need to add more info on your media and settings for any one to help you.

(Intel 3rd gen i5@4.1GHz, 32GB RAM, SSD, 1080Ti GPU, Windows 10) Not now used with Vegas.

13th gen i913900K - water cooled, 96GB RAM, 4TB M2 drive, 4TB games SSD, 2TB video SSD, GPU RTX 4080 Super, Windows 11 pro

Erkki wrote on 8/22/2023, 12:25 PM

HEVC 4:2:0 with 10-bit works in VEGAS with Intel and NVIDIA. You have to uncheck legacy HEVC.

Just tested it with 2 different HEVC files (Sony and GoPro) using my UHD 770 iGPU.

Thanks for the tip. I tried it but for some reason result is still same. Need double check my setup.

Former user wrote on 8/22/2023, 6:55 PM

HEVC 4:2:0 with 10-bit works in VEGAS with Intel and NVIDIA. You have to uncheck legacy HEVC.

Just tested it with 2 different HEVC files (Sony and GoPro) using my UHD 770 iGPU.

Thanks for the tip. I tried it but for some reason result is still same. Need double check my setup.

That is not correct information about Nvidia GPU decoding on Vegas as quoted, do not see original message for added context, no experience with IGPU decoding.

With Nvidia GPU decode WITH VEGAS you can get these results depending on the 10bit HEVC 420 codec

GPU decode but only powered by single threaded CPU (most common)

GPU decode powered by multi threaded CPU (not common - an example is new Iphone files)

No GPU decode (an example is older iphone files, but others as well)

If you have Intel IGPU try getting that to work in Vegas for GPU decode.

 

RogerS wrote on 8/22/2023, 7:33 PM

Thanks for the details, Todd.

Testing an Iphone 12 Max HEVC 4:2:0 video and Sony A7SIII 4:2:0 video here with NVDEC (GTX 1050) there's no GPU decoding activity.

Maybe start a new thread as this is an interesting topic, and share MediaInfo for the specific details of the files you are trying to play.

Intel QSV seems to work across more varieties of HEVC.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Erkki wrote on 8/22/2023, 10:18 PM

Checked again my setup. Recorded sample file with Sony Fx30 / HS 4K 150Mbit 10-bit 4:2:0. Played it with Windows movie player. Task manager showed HW decoder activity. Imported same file to Vegas project, checked that file IO/legacy HEVC decoder option was off. Added clip to timeline. Played it and checked if HW decoder was used during playback. Result was same than earlier test - did not work. Another earlier test with HS 4K with 8-bit 4:2:0 performed ok. HW used was Nvidia GTX2080 super.

As summary, my computer performance works nicely for 1080P work even no HW acceleration. 4K with 10 bits 4:2:0 would enable switching using 4k resolution. Current version of Vegas makes this 4k work slow (without proxy). Usually I just do cuts, adding, reordering, trimming clips and finally marginal color correction. No effects nor 3rd party plugins. When doing this kind of work, fluent workflow without lag is essential. Creating proxy will increase working time (long wait before starting) that is not optimal if you want publish stuff pretty soon after shooting.

RogerS wrote on 8/23/2023, 12:30 AM

What's your CPU model?

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

RogerS wrote on 8/23/2023, 1:05 AM

I did a few tests with NVDEC on my 2080 Super and it is inconsistent. GoPro 11, IPhone with DolbyVision, Mavic Mini III all decoded fine with 10-bit HEVC 4:2:0. However Sony and Panasonic camera files had no decoding activity. A 120p GoPro 10-bit file worked but performance was poor on a 24p timeline (attempting real-time playback, not slow motion).

If your CPU lacks an iGPU for decoding and you want to stay with these file types in VEGAS, without proxy files or transcoding, adding an Intel ARC GPU (3XX) for decoding could work if your motherboard, case and power supply are up for a second GPU.

As users we have no way of knowing when or if this situation with VEGAS will change.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Erkki wrote on 8/23/2023, 12:17 PM

What's your CPU model?

Hi.

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10700K CPU @ 3.80GHz   3.79 GHz

 

Shaun_K wrote on 8/23/2023, 1:16 PM

@Shaun_K: Could you provide us some more details on the media? All we know is that is is packaged as an .MOV. A MediaInfo readout of this would be helpful for us to diagnose your problem.

(link to original request: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-21-build-108-general-discussion--142065/?page=4#ca888826)


@VEGASDerek Here again is the info as requested, in case you missed it before...If there is another place I should be looking for support, please let me know. This issue is a show-stopper for our filming and editing process.

General
Complete name                            : P1001780.MOV
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : QuickTime
Codec ID                                 : qt   0000.02 (qt  )
File size                                : 69.8 MiB
Duration                                 : 8 s 640 ms
Overall bit rate                         : 67.7 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Writing application                      : Lavf59.0.101

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@High
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 8 s 640 ms
Bit rate                                 : 67.6 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.326
Stream size                              : 69.7 MiB (100%)
Color range                              : Full
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 8 s 640 ms
Source duration                          : 8 s 661 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 70.1 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Channel layout                           : C
ChannelLayout_Original                   : M
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 73.9 KiB (0%)
Source stream size                       : 74.1 KiB (0%)
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1
mdhd_Duration                            : 8640

Other
ID                                       : 3
Type                                     : Time code
Format                                   : QuickTime TC
Duration                                 : 8 s 640 ms
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Time code of first frame                 : 13:44:35:15
Time code of last frame                  : 13:44:44:05
Time code, stripped                      : Yes
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No

RogerS wrote on 8/23/2023, 8:09 PM

What's your CPU model?

Hi.

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10700K CPU @ 3.80GHz   3.79 GHz

 

Intel K processors come with integrated graphics and QSV decoding. Intel® UHD Graphics 630. Why are you putting yourself through this with NVDEC? Enable it and try HEVC footage again.​ ​​​​​​@Erkki

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Erkki wrote on 8/23/2023, 10:22 PM

Intel K processors come with integrated graphics and QSV decoding. Intel® UHD Graphics 630. Why are you putting yourself through this with NVDEC? Enable it and try HEVC footage again.​ ​​​​​​@Erkki

Hi.

Based on your advice, I enabled iGPU from UEFI and restarted computer. Monitor cable is connected to NVidia card. Now decoding is done by iGPU. However, screen is lagging like before when doing playback at normal speed.. iGPU load was ~50-60%. 8-bit clip works ok (no lag) like previous tests with NVidia. Switched project mode to 8-bit. No effect.

What seems to be working better is scrolling timeline. Now changing cursor location is fast. Preview view follows behind (lag) but does not slow down mouse operations with timeline.

 

RogerS wrote on 8/23/2023, 11:16 PM

If you want me to test a particular file I'd be happy to- have similar a7sIII files but they may not be exactly the same.

For performance I'd stick with 8-bit full mode for playback. Make sure project resolution matches the main media you are using. 24, 25 and 30p should play in real time. 50/60p may not and are mainly intended for slow motion. If best/full is too much try preview/full?

You can switch to 32-bit full (view transform off) before rendering to take advantage of 10-bit log precision.

You should see a drop in CPU activity when the iGPU is doing decoding which may account for less lag.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Erkki wrote on 8/24/2023, 10:45 AM

If you want me to test a particular file I'd be happy to- have similar a7sIII files but they may not be exactly the same.

 

Hi.

Added some samples to https://1drv.ms/f/s!At5Won46EZjzjfc5FAKjjFnXkW0FdA?e=a7nDdw. Link will expire 31th Aug 2023. Recorded with Fx30. MediaInfo tool analysis files added too.

 

>You can switch to 32-bit full (view transform off) before rendering to take advantage of 10-bit log precision.

What do you mean by this? Does view transform selection affect rendered output?

RogerS wrote on 8/24/2023, 11:01 AM

Thanks for the files, will download them; may take quite a while. So it's 10-bit 4:2:0 HEVC at 50fps.

Yes, if view transform isn't turned off ACES color management will stay on and it won't match 8-bit full (which doesn't use ACES transforms). Sometimes it's similar, sometimes radically different, depending on the source material's color space. ACES view transforms let you target SDR, HDR, etc.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

RogerS wrote on 8/24/2023, 11:38 AM

I've got to get going but a quick test on my laptop (with 7th gen Intel HD 630 iGPU for decoding) yields dismal performance with legacy HEVC unchecked and playable with it checked with 50fps footage dropped on a 25p 8-bit timeline at preview/auto quality. mxhevcplug is using the Intel iGPU decoder which I didn't expect.

I'll test on the desktop later which may be closer to your system's specs.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Hamilton53 wrote on 8/24/2023, 6:04 PM

Was Vegas v21 written on an updated platform? It seems quite stable. Additionally, significant color corrections don't seem to slow down the render times as they did in earlier versions.

RogerS wrote on 8/24/2023, 9:59 PM

@Erkki With my 13th generation i5 and UHD 770 and legacy decoding off there is playback at 25fps at best/full with GPU decoding. though it drops when skipping around the timeline or clips are faded into each other. I'd probably edit it at preview/auto for better responsiveness. With legacy HEVC on it can be at 25fps but seems to take longer to recover after edit points. So likely usable.
I'd test if there are other FX30 file formats that work acceptably with your system and VEGAS today (10-bit AVC?) or if you really want to go this route a bottom-end ARC GPU is probably cheaper than a new MB/CPU.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Erkki wrote on 8/24/2023, 10:24 PM

I'd test if there are other FX30 file formats that work acceptably with your system and VEGAS today (10-bit AVC?) or if you really want to go this route a bottom-end ARC GPU is probably cheaper than a new MB/CPU.

Thank you for this kindness.

I think that is this some kind of bug and probably will be fixed on some day in future. Key thing for me is that responsiveness of UI become much better even preview was not 100% smooth. Prerender worked ok. Preview was smooth as expected. And 1080P is good that is my primary output when publishing something for mobile phone screens.

And the best, no application crashes so far!

 

Wolfgang S. wrote on 8/25/2023, 3:39 AM

Was Vegas v21 written on an updated platform? It seems quite stable. Additionally, significant color corrections don't seem to slow down the render times as they did in earlier versions.

Yes, I also see both an performance improvement in the CGP, in the 32bit floating point ACES HDR settings, and an improved stability. What is great. But I think there is still more to come in the future.

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * GTX 3080 Ti * Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE, 32 GB Ram. Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB) with internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor. Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG, Atomos Sumo

Wolfgang S. wrote on 8/25/2023, 3:57 AM

Erkki wrote on 8/24/2023, 5:45 PM

If you want me to test a particular file I'd be happy to- have similar a7sIII files but they may not be exactly the same.

Hi.

Added some samples to https://1drv.ms/f/s!At5Won46EZjzjfc5FAKjjFnXkW0FdA?e=a7nDdw. Link will expire 31th Aug 2023. Recorded with Fx30. MediaInfo tool analysis files added too

 

I've got to get going but a quick test on my laptop (with 7th gen Intel HD 630 iGPU for decoding) yields dismal performance with legacy HEVC unchecked and playable with it checked with 50fps footage dropped on a 25p 8-bit timeline at preview/auto quality. mxhevcplug is using the Intel iGPU decoder which I didn't expect.

I'll test on the desktop later which may be closer to your system's specs.

Same here. On my laptop with an i-GPU Iris Xe Graphics (used in dthe File I/O settings for "hardware decoder to use") and project settings of UHD 50p 8bit full range I see here with Preview/Half the 50 fps. With Best/full it is even about 40 fps. For more details on the hardware see my signiture.

Please be aware that - with a right click on the preview windows - you could also enable "adjust size and quality for optimal playback". Here Vegas Pro 21 b108 chooses preview (half) for your footage, to be able to play it with 50 fps in 50 fps project settings.

If you reduced the UHD 50p project settings to UHD 25p project settings, I see here also the 25p with the preview quality preview (full).

Last changed by Wolfgang S. on 8/25/2023, 4:10 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * GTX 3080 Ti * Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED (i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE, 32 GB Ram. Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB) with internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor. Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG, Atomos Sumo