The question I would ask is if I were to purchase Vegas Effects would it have Mocha in Vegas Effects like After Effects does.

Sadly, no. Mocha Vegas is not available in Vegas Effects. At least, not here.

@RogerS  Just tried a fresh V21 project and newly created proxies for a couple of clips with legacy off. One a 24fps 4:2:2 clip, the other a 60fps 4:2:0 clip (both Sony A7siii). Stranger and stranger: the proxy disappears for the 60fps clip when switching legacy back on, but not for the 24fps. Do you have a way to recreate that? (If time - it's not an urgent bug as I guess most people aren't switching legacy on and off regularly).

This is the media info for the 24fps clip (the info for the 60fps is as above)

Codec ID                                 : XAVC (XAVC/mp42/iso2)
File size                                : 352 MiB
Duration                                 : 29 s 30 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 102 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 23.976 FPS
Encoded date                             : 2023-08-02 10:24:39 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2023-08-02 10:24:39 UTC

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High 4:2:2@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 2 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 29 s 29 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 96.9 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 100.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.487
Stream size                              : 335 MiB (95%)
Encoded date                             : 2023-08-02 10:24:39 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2023-08-02 10:24:39 UTC
Color range                              : Full
Metas                                    : 3
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

@Petersson Thank you for your feedback. We will try to get those issues fixed and shipped with a next update.

@vegasdimitar

Thank you for taking my problems / issues / bugs (whatever you like to call them) serious, I really appreciate!!!

It's interesting that communication from plugin to host was mostly absent before V20 / build 4.x.x.

The plugins worked smooth until V20 / build 370, so I guess the communication is implemented after that?

And it's kind of funny that the plugins did work "better" (or at least smoother) without communication than with it 😉
___________________________

Indeed, this is now the situation (I already described it in the bug-report, but now know what is happening)

1. Communication plugin » host : smooth
2. Communication host » plugin : delayed

I hope bullet-point 2 can also be fixed or tuned-up, so plugins are working great.
___________________________

BTW. I focus on audio-plugins, but maybe video-plugins suffer from the same issues? Not sure, because I don't use video in Vegas (yeah, I know...).

___________________________
IMPORTANT UPDATE

I discovered that the "lag" from host » plugin is gone when the plugin is out of sight.

See my updated post : https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/bug-vst-becomes-slow-if-attached-to-envelope-vegas-20-401-411--141369/

So "not showing" the plugin resolves all the issues; the plugin can still be active, but "when you don't see it, it doesn't lag the enveloppes at all".

For me this is the evidence that the issue is not the plugin, but the way Vegas handles it; it works supersmooth once the plugin is not visible.

So it has something to do with the redraw, since all functions are still the same (only not visible).

After initial testing some notes about performance

4k

Recorded sample video clip with Sony AVC HS 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 format. Added to timeline. Performance was poor. Then created proxy and situation improved on usable level. Downside is long proxy creation time.

Nvidia Graphics cards has HEVC decoder for 4k 10 bit 4:2:0 data (Nvidia NVDEC - Wikipedia). Vegas does not use that? 8-bit seems to work instead (Sony AVC 4K 8-bit 4:2:0).  Setting/clearing value enable legacy HEVC decoding on file I/O seems not have an impact. This should be improved to use at least 10 bits. Scrubbing back and forth Sony AVC 4K 8-bit 4:2:0 clip (no proxy) worked ok.

When creating proxy, it uses only partially CPU resources. Compared to Kdenlive proxy generator it feels slow.

1080P

Opened some old projects. Seems to be ok.

What was nice, changing project mode between 8-bit --- 32-bit SDR, view transform REC709 --- HDR10 32-bit, View transform REC709 … preview window output looked exactly same. Rendered small samples (1080P SDR 8-bit project, 1080P SDR 32-bit project and 1080P HDR 32-bit project) and checked them calibrated HDR television. Output looked great!

HW Used: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10700K CPU @ 3.80GHz, 3792 MHz, 8 cores 16 logical cores, 48GB RAM,  Nvidia 2080 GTX Super and SSD for data and programs.

@Erkki 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 are not the same.
NVDEC cannot decode HEVC 10-bit 4:2:2 at all and that includes in VEGAS. QSV can but 11th generation or newer (you have 10th) iGPUs or Intel ARC are needed. All NVIDIA and Intel GPUs can decode 10-bit 4:2:0 in VEGAS and you can choose between the decoders in preferences, file io. I'd use Intel myself.

The proxies are XDCAM format so they play well even on weak systems but don't use GPU for encoding so it's slow (truthfully they don't really fully use modern CPU power either).

@Erkki 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 are not the same.

Yes. 4:2:0 with 10-bit would be welcome. 4:2:0 with 8-bit seems to work.

HEVC 4:2:0 with 10-bit works in VEGAS with Intel and NVIDIA. You have to uncheck legacy HEVC.

Just tested it with 2 different HEVC files (Sony and GoPro) using my UHD 770 iGPU.

Just tried a fresh V21 project and newly created proxies for a couple of clips with legacy off. One a 24fps 4:2:2 clip, the other a 60fps 4:2:0 clip (both Sony A7siii). Stranger and stranger: the proxy disappears for the 60fps clip when switching legacy back on, but not for the 24fps. Do you have a way to recreate that? (If time - it's not an urgent bug as I guess most people aren't switching legacy on and off regularly).

This is the media info for the 24fps clip (the info for the 60fps is as above)

Codec ID                                 : XAVC (XAVC/mp42/iso2)
File size                                : 352 MiB
Duration                                 : 29 s 30 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 102 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 23.976 FPS
Encoded date                             : 2023-08-02 10:24:39 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2023-08-02 10:24:39 UTC

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High 4:2:2@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 2 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 29 s 29 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 96.9 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 100.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.487
Stream size                              : 335 MiB (95%)
Encoded date                             : 2023-08-02 10:24:39 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2023-08-02 10:24:39 UTC
Color range                              : Full
Metas                                    : 3
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

@gabgilson I'm not having success replicating this either. With a 60fps Canon HEVC 4:2:2 file I created a proxy file in VP 21 with legacy HEVC decoding off. It works. I switched to legacy HEVC, restarted VEGAS and there's no option to create proxy file (greyed out) and the framerate at preview/full is as good as before.

Tried the same with Sony a7IIIs HEVC 4:2:0 60fps file. Actually, this showed the issue you indicated. There is still a proxy file in the folder with the right name but in legacy HEVC mode it's not showing up for some reason. Hitting create proxy overwrites it (and does function). Returning to non-legacy HEVC and the proxy is no longer used. Strange!!!

I was mightily displeased to get ads shoved at me a bit after this installation and then Windows 11, not sure which triggered Magix ads suddenly appearing/the Update Notifier's sudden advertisement pitches. I found and disabled the (unbranded, making it harder to find) "Update Notifier," eventually, to, I hope, stop those. I want to add, while I go back and forth to Germany and usually it isn't hard to infer the meaning, the English language version really should have all its text in English (especially as one cannot copy/paste the text out to translate). (Yes, my ads were turned off in Windows generally before and after, and so far Magix is the only ad that popped up on my machine unexpectedly.)

Nice to see the new version. Sad to see the endless marketing hype, really sick of that.

yes i'm getting this problem to. also it is not letting me activate acid music. do i have to pay extra to activate even though i'm using post because it downloaded with the package

I have post 365 and nothing is activating except the vegas 21 software. My activation for sounforge does not work. The activation for acid does not work. Primate studio activation does not work. I pay for post and figured since these products always worked with other versions of vegas they would work with this one, but its trouble after trouble and it all has to do with my activations. I can not find a way to contact anyone for help. it only sends me here. and this place feels like i'm just shitting in the wind trying to get answers. It's frustrating when you cant find a way to actually talk to a human that works here

To contact support, don't click on the community forum. A support ticket is an option

My activation for sound forge does not work. The activation for acid does not work

Sound Forge and Acid would have unique activation codes (aka, serials), so if you are using the Vegas serial to activate those apps, it will not work.
The activation serials are in the email that was sent to you when Vegas was purchased. If you no longer have the email, contact Magix customer service: sales@magix.net - or - infoservice@magix.net with your purchase info.
After the applications are activated/registered, the serials will be listed in your Magix Service Center account under 'My Products'.

not letting me activate acid music. do i have to pay extra to activate

I am not sure about that. Some of items that are included when SF or Acid are purchased singularly, may not be included in the Vegas package. Contact customer service for a definitive answer.

btw, welcome to the Vegas users community .

HEVC 4:2:0 with 10-bit works in VEGAS with Intel and NVIDIA. You have to uncheck legacy HEVC.

Just tested it with 2 different HEVC files (Sony and GoPro) using my UHD 770 iGPU.

Getting vexing results on my laptop. I had vp21 set in Windows/System/Display/Graphics to power saving gpu (Intel Iris) and unchecking legacy-hevc in Vegas keeps the Intel Iris from decoding hevc 4:2:0. Render time for a test clip went from 1 minute to 5 minutes. If I change the Windows setting to performance gpu (Nvidia 3060), hevc 4:2:0 decodes on Intel but hevc 4:2:2 stops decoding. I don't really care for 4:2:2 so I'm just going to leave Windows set that way.

Also, objective analysis still shows a dramatic drop in quality when hevc-lossless is decoded with legacy-hevc unchecked. With a default MainConcept hevc 10-bit render, Vmaf plummets from 88.5949 to 50.3028 while Psnr drops from 44.4800 to 34.3894.

Video preview still lagging... not happy with vp 21

Video preview still lagging... not happy with vp 21

With what kind of video specifically? 21 seems the same as 20 here.

Hello!  Two (2) questions.  I currently use and purchased Vegas Pro 20 as a standalone program with a one-time payment to own the software outright. 

(1) Is the new Vegas Pro 21 also a standalone program with a one-time payment to own the software outright or does it now require a monthly subscription and I have to keep paying continually for it? 

(2) They are calling Vegas Pro 21 “Vegas Pro 21 Suite” and “Vegas Pro 21 Edit” and “Vegas Pro 21 Post”.  I’m kind of confused as to why this was not just called Vegas Pro 21 and I am not sure which one of these to purchase that is just an upgrade to what I already have? Which one?   And when the Vegas Pro ad came out when I opened up my Vegas Pro 20 program, they were offering a lower price of $199.00.  Can someone answer both my questions please?  Thank you.  I look forward to your reply.

Re Q1 - there are four purchase options: Full new perpetual licence; Upgrade perpetual licence; Subscription paid annually; or Subscription paid monthly. The options are given at the purchase point on Vegas Pro's webpage.

Re Q2 - The comparison page on Vegas Pro's product website shows what comes with each version:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.com/us/product-comparison/#productMenu

The editing software itself is "VEGAS Pro." It comes in packages that are defined by the other software that is included and access to online features.

Edit is the basic package, Suite the medium and Post the premium one. You can upgrade (perpetual license) from your existing version to any of these. Sometimes there are special offers that popup in the news feed or come in an email that are better than what the general public gets.

Yes there are both subscription and perpetual options. With subscription you get access to some online-only features (stock footage, auto transcription) if those are of use to you. Look at the comparison page for details:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.com/us/product-comparison/#productMenu

The renewal options are now even more complicated because wheres for the last few versions of VP the edit package has been the right one for me, via an upgrade, this time with VP21 I have upgraded to the Suite in order to include Mocha Vegas in my package.
So next time, with VP22 I presume I shall have to again purchase the Suite upgrade in order to continue with Mocha and again include Acid and Music Maker which I dont want. I accept that Mocha Vegas is excellent value compared to cost of he full Mocha Pro, and with good integration.

Thought just occured though - is Mocha Vegas here to stay or is just a one time thing with VP21?

You could always keep using Mocha with VP 21 if it is version-locked (not sure that it is) and do other edits with 22.

.... is Mocha Vegas here to stay or is just a one time thing with VP21?

Considering that BorisFX has developed a series of excellent Mocha Vegas tutorials and has even opened up a section of their user forum especially for Mocha Vegas, the collaboration between Vegas and BorisFX looks to be set for the long-term rather than a one-off VFX offer.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/boris-fx-has-created-super-comprehensive-content-for-mocha-vegas--142102/

Further, BorisFX's Mocha Product Manager (replyingtoday to a question on the Mocha Vegas forum) said that Mocha Vegas/Vegas Pro integration feature is aimed to be included in Mocha Pro at some time in the indefinite future. That augurs very well for an ongoing relationship between Vegas and BorisFX.