Computer configuration to ensure proper operation of Vegas 20 for 4K

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 11/23/2022, 5:05 AM

I've been having problems with vegas 18 - vegas 20 for a long time. The program crashes every few minutes while editing. Kernelbase.dll error while rendering. The correspondence with the manufacturer's support is scandalous, I pay for the next upgrade, and I have no support. I think you have similar experiences. But let's leave it. Does anyone of you have a proven computer configuration for 4K that does not cause freezes, errors, propgram not responding, etc? any guaranteed vegas kit that works without problems?

Comments

RogerS wrote on 11/23/2022, 5:20 AM

No, there's no such configuration I am aware of guaranteed to have no issues.

In general using an Intel GPU for decoding seems to help, as does limiting the media you use to constant framerate and short GOP.

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 11/23/2022, 5:25 AM

I mean the configuration confirmed at work: motherboard, graphics card, processor - I currently have an Intel i7 - 9700 and an ASrock 390 Pro motherboard. I may have a conflict with my graphics card. I will be grateful for hints, your experience with setting up a computer in Vegas.

 

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 11/23/2022, 5:30 AM

 

Roger, please explain these technical issues to me more closely, and I quote: limiting the media you use to constant framerate and short GOP.

 

RogerS wrote on 11/23/2022, 5:41 AM

You mention GPU as a possible problem, but what is your GPU? Your signature is empty. Mine has my systems including a new one I just built with Vegas in mind.

Constant framerate is for example 25 frames per second. Variable framerate may average 25 frames per second but have dips below that or above that. Phones and screen capture software often do this.

To save on data storage and transfer compression can be done over a number of frames. Vegas tends to have trouble when this gets long, say 10s or so and now delivers a warning that media isn't optimized for editing. For smoother editing try keeping it to 1 or 2 seconds (so for 25p, 25 or 50 frames).
This is mainly relevant to capture software or if you re-encode your files from smart phones using software like Shutter Encoder for use in Vegas as you can set this directly. Most non-phone cameras I've used are quite reasonable about this so it's not an issue. Vegas may actually have issues with cameras that go to the other extreme with ALL-I formats where all info is recorded for every frame if the framerate and data rates are high.

The decoders in Vegas seem to have limits to what they can handle and that's especially true when GPU decoders (NVDEC, UVD, etc.) are in use. Give Vegas media it likes and you'll have a better experience.

 

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 11/23/2022, 5:54 AM

I tried AMD 6750, Nvidia 1660, Nvidia 1080 - drivers in Studio version, as well as work without GPU on integrated graphics with the processor. The program crashes on Nvidia. You can't even send a bug report to Vegas because you have to restart your computer. With AMD, it does not hang, but the preview is a few frames per second, and a large delay in the program's response. I use materials recorded on Sony A7S3 4k/50p 150MB /sec. Disks on Synology File Server. Preview set to Half. Hard drives connected directly to the computer also do not bring improvement. RAM 64Gb. I also set the priority in Windows for Vegas to High. I don't have 25p content from my smartphone. All my productions are from professional cameras and mirrorless cameras.

RogerS wrote on 11/23/2022, 6:48 AM

Half of the a7sIII formats are edit unfriendly as well (designed for max image quality or reducing data rates through heavy compression).
Can you share your specific format? https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

I've tested them all I think at this point. Many need proxy files in Vegas.

RogerS wrote on 11/23/2022, 6:58 AM

Take a look at this list for what formats can be GPU decoded. https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/What-H-264-and-H-265-Hardware-Decoding-is-Supported-in-Premiere-Pro-2120/

9th gen Intel can't decode as much internally with its iGPU as 11th gen+ so if you were building new I'd look at the latest Intel CPUs with iGPU.

Crashes could also be related to Vegas getting confused with old drivers for old cards still being on the system. I'd erase them all with DDU Uninstaller and reinstall and then reset Vegas.

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 11/23/2022, 7:22 AM

I'd love to use a proxy. But I have 3 Sony cameras, I record 20 hours of material for one event, imagine what the proxy production time is. Besides, I WORK on two workstations, and the proxies don't move between workstations, they have to be rebuilt each time. This is a nightmare bug of Vegas software that can't assign proxy files to locations. do you have contact information for IT people at magix? do something for them to fix it. Why does the program work fine for a few minutes and after five it crashes? This is not discrimination against Sony materials, but a bug in the program. some kind of conflict that is too big for the small brains of magix engineers. And it would be enough for them to respond to service requests.

RogerS wrote on 11/23/2022, 7:29 AM

I'm pretty sure your cameras can produce their own proxies as well, though there isn't a seamless way to use them in Vegas as far as I'd know. Hopefully there will be in the future. You'd need to match file names to the main files and then swap them in Vegas before the final render. There have been threads on that here. HOS may have a workflow for that too though I haven't used it.

For Vegas-created proxies, if the media is shared between the workstations the proxies will be too as they're saved in the same place.

For crashes try what I suggested. Vegas doesn't generally crash after 5 minutes or no-one would use it.

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 11/23/2022, 7:50 AM

Hello, I'm currently using Total Uninstaller. But I'm still looking for an answer as to why the program crashes in a comparable way on two of my editing stations, at home and at work. The nightmare is that every few minutes I have to restart the program from the application manager. Leaving a 90 minute movie to render overnight, I wake up in the morning and the program is suspended and stopped 25% of the time. And so every day. if i am the exception then where is the error? Proxy is a half-measure, the program should run in real time with native resolution. I would understand proxy at 6k 8K. because it's 500MB/s. But 4K is the standard now. I asked how to make a computer, what graphics card, processor for the Vegas service but they dipped their mouth in a bucket of water and did not blink.

RogerS wrote on 11/23/2022, 8:18 AM

Try to make sure the Intel iGPU is doing decoding in preferences/file io. Can't really say more on crashes- are there crash details you can share?

Beyond that 4K isn't just 4K. What's the bit depth? What's the color depth? What's the amount of compression? 10-bit 4:2:2 AVC doesn't run on anything in real time at native resolution. 10 bit 4:2:2 HEVC might on other software but may need a proxy in Vegas. 8-bit 4k AVC should run fine in Vegas, it's all I use from my Sonys. 4K 10 bit 4:2:0 AVC should work okay, too.

The reality is that Vegas has limits to what it can handle, perhaps because it's from an older generation of software and modified to work with today's media.

If you research and test potential workflows and none of them work for you today, I'd find software that does (though for some formats your camera can shoot they probably won't run in real time with native resolution. They were not intended for real-time playback with current hardware.)

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 11/23/2022, 8:29 AM

I know that 4:2:2 heats hardware and software to the temperature of lava. I use max 4:2:0 but it's to the detriment of the client, most people don't see it and don't know what it is. But a good film saturated with colors, with depth of exposition, this is my brand and I will not give it up because some asshole program turned out to be partisan. let them not advertise that it is compatible, that it is great, and swallows everything. There is NO mention that it has limitations. It's either to make him look young and fit, or give back the money for which they cut us with their crap. So far, no one has complained that he has a computer that works well in Vegas. Maybe it's a global problem and should be reported to the appropriate consumer protection authorities in the EU?

RogerS wrote on 11/23/2022, 8:39 AM

Okay now you're just going crazy. Of course people have computers that work well in Vegas. I just built one.
This thread started with you asking for advice for hardware. What happened? Take a break and come back tomorrow.

All software has limitations. There's no way a program like Resolve would perform well on a system that weak even if it's better at high-bit depth files than Vegas.
Certain types of files don't work with any NVIDIA or AMD GPUs no matter how much the GPU costs or which software you choose.

Reyfox wrote on 11/23/2022, 8:54 AM

My computer specs are listed in my signature. The AMD drivers I am using at the moment is 22.5.2 for the RX 6700XT graphics card.

I edit a lot of 4:2:2 10bit 25/24P 4K 150Mb/s. While I had issues with memory management with VP19, using the same project in VP20, there is slightly more memory used, but so far, the editing has be very stable for me. I am using Panasonic to record the videos.

The project I am currently working on has 28GB of files in the Project Media. RAM is at 13.5GB. Playing back clips on the timeline with nothing done, I can get playback at 25fps using Best full, even after a mild color grade. Again, I am using Panasonic footage.

Oh, I am in the EU...

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 11/23/2022, 1:30 PM

I know that 4:2:2 heats hardware and software to the temperature of lava. I use max 4:2:0 but it's to the detriment of the client, most people don't see it and don't know what it is. But a good film saturated with colors, with depth of exposition, this is my brand and I will not give it up...

@Piotr-Diszer that's a common misconception. Until recently, the only camera sensors I know of that capture anything but 4:2:0 color are 3-ccd which capture 4:4:4. Sony just came out with a quad-bayer, single sensor that captures 4:2:2 at the expense of resolution. Personally, I think that's a bad trade-off since the drop in resolution is readily visible while the extra chroma sub-sampling, before edit rather than after, is not. Fwiw, the only gpu hardware that can decode 4:2:2, only if its hevc, are 11th gen and later Intel igpus as well as the Intel Arc gpus. Your cpu, which I assume has a uhd630 igpu, can only decode 422 hevc by cpu-only which will be pretty slow and will burden the cpu for all further operations since the extrapolated data per frame is greater. If your cpu has an igpu, it will give best 4k performance with 4:2:0 10-bit hevc. If it does not have an igpu, you'll get best performance with 8-bit avc in an mp4 container.

Btw, if you've been trying out different gpus, strongly suggest you use DDU to strip out all traces of old display drivers when swapping boards or reverting to older driver versions. Total Uninstaller is effective uninstalling apps but not so much with display drivers.

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 11/25/2022, 1:46 AM

Thank you for your suggestion. My i9-9700 processor has graphics disabled because I have a graphics card installed. I am looking for your experience with setting up a computer that does not crash every few minutes, especially when moving the shot on the timeline. Share your configurations. Unfortunately, I limit color sampling already at the recording stage. And so, for one wedding, 0.5TB of data is created, which I am obliged to keep for the client for a year. If I sampled 4:4:4 as you write I would go with bags for memory cards and disks. For the client, the speed of seeing his wedding is sometimes important, which translates badly into late nights for editing. The problem is that the faulty Vegas, although it is fast, freezes and leads to frustration for wasted progress in the project

RogerS wrote on 11/25/2022, 1:57 AM

Try enabling your iGPU for increased stability. Your GPUs don't t work well in Vegas for decoding (preferences/ file io) I also have 2 computers with Intel iGPUs and dedicated NVIDIA GPUs (1050, 2080 Super). I use the Intel for decoding and NVIDIA for timeline processing (preferences/video)

Nobody is recommending 4:4:4, read the comment again. Try 10-bit 4:2:0 instead.

For configurations see Howard's computers in his signature. Mine are in mine.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 11/25/2022, 2:18 AM

Does anyone of you have a proven computer configuration for 4K that does not cause freezes, errors, propgram not responding, etc? any guaranteed vegas kit that works without problems?

Well, at least for my this machine works great with Vegas Pro 19 and 20 (using Windows 10):

  • AMD Threadripper 3960X - 24x3800 MHz
  • Board MSI TRX40 Pro Wifi with PCIe 4.0
  • 32 GB ram, DDR4-RAM 3600
  • System partition: 1000 GB SSD 870 EVO Samsung
  • Internal partitions: 2TB Video 980 Pro HDD als fast harddisc, 4 TB HDD WD Red for other datas.
  • Grafikkarte Nivdeo RTX 3080 TI with 12 GB Ram
  • Blackmagic Deckling 12G Extreme 4K, for the preview
  • QNAP NAS with 10 GB connection - I edit my BRAW, v-log or s-log footage from the NAS directly, but you need a fast connection to do so.

I see very few crashes by all the Vegas versions that I use. But that may also depend on all the drivers installed.

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 11/25/2022, 2:32 AM

Hello, that's what I meant, thanks for the first suggestion. Who will contribute to technological progress? He will show off his reliable computer for Vegas 4k? invite :)

RogerS wrote on 11/25/2022, 2:43 AM

Check all of our signatures.

But seriously, enable the iGPU and you may well find your existing system works acceptably.

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 11/25/2022, 4:27 AM

 

It's just one guy has a working setup? Can you brainstorm instead of burying your head in the sand?

Reyfox wrote on 11/25/2022, 4:31 AM

did you read my post above?

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 11/25/2022, 4:35 AM

Reyfox: I read your post. But how do you preview 25 FPS? I can't force it for anything, only the resolution is to set 4K, HD, UHD. I also use panasonic but always record 50P / Sony 50 / 100P

Reyfox wrote on 11/25/2022, 6:20 AM

I drag and drop to the timeline. That's it. The footage I am using is from my Panasonic G9.

Here is a POST where another user with HEVC file 4K files created in a Panasonic camera having problems playing it back. The user was kind enough to provide a sample for download. Everyone (including me) had no problems playing it back at Best/Full at the framerate it was recorded in.

I think the difference is in the cameras used. I don't have any Sony footage to try, so can not comment on how it would perform on my computer.

Care to share a sample of your Sony footage? I understand your reasoning for the higher frame rates for the fast movements in dancing and wanting to slow them down. I've been to a few Polish weddings...