Request Event FX which can access any other layer

xcxz-a wrote on 9/20/2020, 6:52 AM

VEGAS Pro's OFX has a big limitation which other OFX hosts don't suffer.

That is the Event FX of VEGAS Pro can't access secondary layer, which brings that third-party plugins can't function normally as in other OFX hosts. For instance, BCC in Resolve.

This is very unfair for Vegas users who purchased BCC, sapphire etc.

 

The Vegas limitation can be proved in : https://forum.borisfx.com/t/continuum-page-turn-ofx-alternate-back-sony-vegas/8962/2?u=summaryactivitynot

So it is necessary to Request Event FX which can access any other layer.

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Another example : BCC Particle Array 3D

In Davinci Resolve, apply BCC Particle Array 3D to noise layer, set noise layer as BCC's texture layer (source B). Then set another spectrum layer (source B) as BCC's color layer :

 

In Vegas Pro, apply BCC Particle Array 3D to noise layer, set noise layer as BCC Particle Array 3D's texture (source). Then I want to set spectrum layer as BCC's color layer, but there is no (source B). It means Vegas can't make spectrum layer (in another track) as BCC's source B :

 

Comments

Dexcon wrote on 9/20/2020, 7:46 AM

Issues like this have been discussed a number of times on BorisFX's forum. It may be worth your while lodging a support request to VegasCreativeSoftware to highlight the issue from your perspective.

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xcxz-a wrote on 9/20/2020, 6:08 PM

Issues like this have been discussed a number of times on BorisFX's forum. It may be worth your while lodging a support request to VegasCreativeSoftware to highlight the issue from your perspective.

@Dexcon It is a very serious problem. The event fx can't access other layers, which means Vegas can't use many plugins normally. This is illogical in a professional NLE. I hope more and more Vegas users would realize it.

Dexcon wrote on 9/20/2020, 8:35 PM

@xcxz-a  ... Just in case you haven't seen it, the same issue was raised but with BCC's Title Studio on BorisFX's forum back in July:

https://forum.borisfx.com/t/vegas-17-and-bcc-title-studio-composite-over-background/8437/4

BorisFX is clearly well aware of the issue as the Product Manager replied on 3 July:

So what I’m hearing from you is that you would like to have the same level of functionality with regard to bringing in alternate host video tracks in Title Studio in Vegas as we do in Avid. In Avid we can pull up video tracks from beneath the title studio filter track in the host timeline to use as a template against which we can position the titles that we’re generating. In Vegas because we can’t pull up a video clip from tracks below the filter this is a problem for you. If the Vegas OFX API will allow us to do that then I see no reason why we would not implement this feature. I’ll add it to the feature wish list and discuss it with engineering - thanks for highlighting this deficiency.

Meanwhile, there are a couple of things that you can do as a workaround.

Apply the filter directly to the background source in the timeline, then once you have the title set up, save the project, delete the filter, apply a fresh instance of title studio to the empty event and load up the saved preset. Then you can use the host-side filter transforms to fine tune the position of the title over the video. This was already been mentioned in the comments above from Jezric.

Or …

Create a second instance of the background video on a new event track above itself. Then apply the title studio filter to that event (instead of an empty event) and you’ll (a) be able to see the video while working with the title in the Title Studio UI and (b) it will be a discrete title on its own event track and independent of the background video, just like you needed.

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xcxz-a wrote on 9/20/2020, 9:28 PM

@Dexcon Anyway, I hope this limitation can be fixed as soon as possible. This limination makes vegas a toy, comparing with other ofx hosts. A professional NLE's FX should be able to access other layers, otherwise it just become a toy filter not a FX.

lan-mLMC wrote on 9/20/2020, 9:33 PM

What you request is something like Event level blending mode by @Mohammed_Anis @Marco. https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/requesting-event-level-blend-modes--123528/

But it is related to Vegas core code. I think it is not easy to fix it.

It is indeed a big limination of VEGAS Pro since long ago.

 

If the FX which can access other layers is really important for you, I suggest you to switch to other NLE, like AVID, Resolve, Premiere, etc.

xcxz-a wrote on 9/20/2020, 9:59 PM

What you request is something like Event level blending mode by @Mohammed_Anis @Marco. https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/requesting-event-level-blend-modes--123528/

But it is related to Vegas core code. I think it is not easy to fix it.

It is indeed a big limination of VEGAS Pro since long ago.

 

If the FX which can access other layers is really important for you, I suggest you to switch to other NLE, like AVID, Resolve, Premiere, etc.

Anyway, Limination should be fixed.

xcxz-a wrote on 9/22/2020, 1:10 AM

No one care about $399+ software's big limination?

No one need normal feature plugins in VEGAS Pro?

RogerS wrote on 9/22/2020, 1:28 AM

Why are you complaining to us? We're just users. Did you do what Dexcon suggested and write to Magix, please? You can also post in the feature wishlist thread for VP 19, too.

VEGASPascal wrote on 9/22/2020, 5:13 AM

No one care about $399+ software's big limination?

No one need normal feature plugins in VEGAS Pro?

VEGAS supports like all other OFX host the OpenFX structure.

Filter: Input frame -> Effect-> Output

Transition: Input frame source 1, Input frame source 2 -> Effect -> Output

Compositor: Input frame source 1, Input frame source 2 -> Merge-Effect (Add, Multiply etc.) -> Output

A similar "Page Roll" effect in VEGAS is a transition with input A and input B.

 

xcxz-a wrote on 9/22/2020, 6:01 AM

No one care about $399+ software's big limination?

No one need normal feature plugins in VEGAS Pro?

VEGAS supports like all other OFX host the OpenFX structure.

Filter: Input frame -> Effect-> Output

Transition: Input frame source 1, Input frame source 2 -> Effect -> Output

Compositor: Input frame source 1, Input frame source 2 -> Merge-Effect (Add, Multiply etc.) -> Output

A similar "Page Roll" effect in VEGAS is a transition with input A and input B.

 

@VEGASPascal I know that. it is not only the page turn's problem.

There is no need to exist for Filter. You should promote event fx from Filter to Compositor. This is very important. Because Compositor can absolutely replace Filter. And promoting event fx can make bcc page turn(better than vegas page turn), title studio, etc work normally.

xcxz-a wrote on 9/22/2020, 6:05 AM

And vegas current compositors have many liminations. It will occupy 3d track motion and blend mode. It can't be add as a plugins chain. It can't only work in especial time region of a track.

VEGASPascal wrote on 9/22/2020, 6:44 AM

No one care about $399+ software's big limination?

No one need normal feature plugins in VEGAS Pro?

VEGAS supports like all other OFX host the OpenFX structure.

Filter: Input frame -> Effect-> Output

Transition: Input frame source 1, Input frame source 2 -> Effect -> Output

Compositor: Input frame source 1, Input frame source 2 -> Merge-Effect (Add, Multiply etc.) -> Output

A similar "Page Roll" effect in VEGAS is a transition with input A and input B.

 

@VEGASPascal I know that. it is not only the page turn's problem.

There is no need to exist for Filter. You should promote event fx from Filter to Compositor. This is very important. Because Compositor can absolutely replace Filter. And promoting event fx can make bcc page turn(better than vegas page turn), title studio, etc work normally.

OpenFX is a industry standard which VEGAS supports and not create. Third party plugins only have to say what type of plugin is it - Compositor, Filter, Transition or Media Generator (like our plugins do). Why is BBC Page Roll not a transition FX (if it requires 2 input events) like all other third party plugins? I never used Title Studio but why is it not a OpenFX Media Generator like New Blue Titler Pro?

On the other hand... In VEGAS you will also find plugins as Filter with different inputs... like the VEGAS Video Stabilization and the fixed reference frame method (input: current frame and reference frame of the event... output: stabilizied output of the current frame). I do not see any limitation here.

xcxz-a wrote on 9/22/2020, 12:59 PM

@VEGASPascal

OpenFX is a industry standard which VEGAS supports and not create. Third party plugins only have to say what type of plugin is it - Compositor, Filter, Transition or Media Generator (like our plugins do). 

Not ask you to create a new standard. Just ask you to make event fx able to access other layers. This is nothing about create new standard. OpenFX stadard never stipulates that event fx mustn't access other layers.

xcxz-a wrote on 9/22/2020, 1:18 PM

@VEGASPascal In Resolve, event level fx can easily access other layers. There's no reason Vegas Pro can't.

xcxz-a wrote on 9/23/2020, 10:59 PM

I am not familiar with Resolve, but it seems Resolve can transfer multi-inputs for OpenFX from your picture. Does it?

It seems to be very right for compositing.


@lan-mLMC Yes, Resolve's event level OFX have many inputs than Vegas 1 input OFX. I wonder why Vegas can't do that? It it really hard? A free Resolve can do it easily, why $399+ Vegas Pro can't do it? It is a really confusing question.

walter-i. wrote on 9/24/2020, 3:52 AM

A free Resolve can do it easily, why $399+ Vegas Pro can't do it? It is a really confusing question.

This question has such a long beard that I can no longer hear it - and has been discussed a hundred times and also explained factually.
Just use the search function.

A joke doesn't get any better if you tell it more often ........

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xcxz-a wrote on 9/24/2020, 6:10 AM

has been discussed a hundred times

It means people can't face the question and solve it.

michael-harrison wrote on 9/24/2020, 7:15 PM

@xcxz-a This is a user forum. You're not going to get the answer you want from other users. Magix hasn't published a roadmap for Vegas and isn't likely to, so you aren't going to get that answer from them either.

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walter-i. wrote on 9/25/2020, 5:23 AM

has been discussed a hundred times

It means people can't face the question and solve it.


Or, he doesn't use the search function.
See example:https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/problem-in-project-properties-floating-windows--124106/

On the subject: "A free Resolve can do it easily, why $ 399 + Vegas Pro can't do it?"
It is now common knowledge that there is no such thing as "free" in our capitalist world. Those who do not disclose their costs seriously, simply use other (sometimes disguised) channels to get their money.

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xcxz-a wrote on 9/25/2020, 5:35 AM

It is now common knowledge that there is no such thing as "free" in our capitalist world.

I said free, not "free", don't change the subject, worthless.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 9/27/2020, 10:17 AM

Generally, if i want an fx to impact all the clips on a track, I apply it at the track level, not the clip level. If I want it to affect all tracks, I apply it as a video output fx above the preview window. Not all fx seem to be designed for these options.

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