VP17 Update 5 & VEGAS Image/Effects Update 3 - General Discussion

Comments

NickHope wrote on 5/28/2020, 8:03 AM

@michael-harrison The problem occurs where you close your Video Event FX window before closing VEGAS.

michael-harrison wrote on 5/28/2020, 8:16 AM

@NickHope Well, crud. Sorry for the spam. I guess it's good I always use a saved layout.

System 1:

Processor        Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8700 CPU @ 3.20GHz, 3192 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s)

BaseBoard Product        ROG STRIX Z390-E GAMING

Installed Physical Memory (RAM)        32.0 GB

Adapter Description        NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660

Driver Version        Studio <the latest stable>

Resolution        1920 x 1080 x 60 hertz

Video Memory 6G GDDR5

 

System 2:

Lenovo Yoga 720

Core i7-7700 2.8Ghz quad core, 8 logical

16G ram

Intel HD 630 gpu

Nvidia GTX 1050 gpu

Ivey-League-Films wrote on 5/28/2020, 9:39 AM

@VEGASDerek, when you refer to fixing the sizing problem, are you talking about the 4096 x 2160 rendering option?

NickHope wrote on 5/28/2020, 9:43 AM

@michael-harrison No worries. Exactly the same thing caught me out when I was first testing that issue.

VEGASDerek wrote on 5/28/2020, 9:52 AM

@VEGASDerek, when you refer to fixing the sizing problem, are you talking about the 4096 x 2160 rendering option?

No, I am referring to the FX and Pan/Crop window sizing persistence problem.

However, the sizing problem you are referring to was also recently fixed, but not in time for the update.

Cielspacing wrote on 5/28/2020, 1:25 PM

A general comment on this update; Thank you!!!
I have not even updated to VEGAS 17, but to witness all that developers have tackled at once; CPU's demands, improvement of HEVC handling, fixing crashes in AMD decoder while expanding its configuration choices, fixing m4v and m4a support, improving MAGIX rendering, plus fine tuning automation, White balancing and other workflow enhancements.

All that means that developers are tackling relevant issues that regularly need upgrading... Yes, CPUs, GPUs, encoders/Codecs and formats have been disruptively evolving out there in the last years, so this update proves VEGAS development team has been responsive and is delivering. Plus some of them are now vocal in this forum!

Also this being a 5th update shows a rather novel care from MAGIX to their loyal customers and feedback and if such continues, it will ease my concerns holding me from upgrading to a newer version when business goes back to normal.
Well done!

Glenn-C wrote on 5/28/2020, 1:39 PM

Is there a reason why the Pan/Crop window is severely laggy when doing any kind of masking? Such a time-waster....

Also, VP17 crashes a lot with my NVIDIA card enabled for timeline playback...

  • Win10 (latest)
  • 24GB RAM
  • Intel i7 9750
  • Nvidia Geforce GTX1660 Ti
  • Lenovo Y545 (near new)
Howard-Vigorita wrote on 5/28/2020, 2:06 PM

@Howard-Vigorita Do you mean build 451? The latest build is 452.


Oops... Thanks, Nick. I corrected my post

Cameras: Z-Cam E2 classic, Canon XF305, JVC GV-LS2, Canon 6D w/L-glass line.
Laptop: Dell XPS15-9570; i7-8750h 32gb (integrated Intel UHD-630 & Nvidia GTX-1050Ti)
Road: Intel NUC i7 8809g 32gb (integrated AMD VegaM 4gb graphics and Intel HD630)
Workstation: i9 9900k 32 gb (Sapphire AMD Radeon VII 16gb graphics and integrated Intel UHD630)
Workstation2: e5 1650v4 128 gb (Sapphire Nitro+ RX5700xt Navi 8gb graphics)
Workstation3: i7-980X 24gb (Sapphire Nitro+ Vega64 8gb graphics)
currently Vegas 17.452 (testing Vegas 18.284)

RogerS wrote on 5/28/2020, 7:26 PM

Is there a reason why the Pan/Crop window is severely laggy when doing any kind of masking? Such a time-waster....

Also, VP17 crashes a lot with my NVIDIA card enabled for timeline playback...

  • Win10 (latest)
  • 24GB RAM
  • Intel i7 9750
  • Nvidia Geforce GTX1660 Ti
  • Lenovo Y545 (near new)

I had to set Dynamic ram to 0 to get Vegas 17 to work with NVIDIA decoding. Otherwise it was crashing unless I selected Intel decoder or turned off preview acceleration (or use integrated Intel GPU for GPU preview acceleration.)

Stratman wrote on 5/28/2020, 8:10 PM

@VEGASDerek @NickHope Here's a video of the window position and size being restored as expected.


Good pick up!

fr0sty wrote on 5/28/2020, 8:25 PM

All that means that developers are tackling relevant issues that regularly need upgrading... Yes, CPUs, GPUs, encoders/Codecs and formats have been disruptively evolving out there in the last years, so this update proves VEGAS development team has been responsive and is delivering. Plus some of them are now vocal in this forum!

+1. Communication with the community is key.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Radeon VII

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

fr0sty wrote on 5/28/2020, 9:05 PM

Vegas Image still cannot open RAW images from my Panasonic S1. The worst part is, it still shows the image properly decoded in the preview thumbnail on the right side of the screen, but the image itself is displayed as pink static. The Panasonic camera profiles are also way out of date... for instance, it only has up to the DMC-GH4 line, and now we've got the DMC-GH5 and DMC-GH5s out as well (with the DMC-GH6 not far behind), the Panasonic S1, S1H, or S1R are not in the list at all.

Last changed by fr0sty on 5/28/2020, 9:10 PM, changed a total of 4 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Radeon VII

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 5/28/2020, 10:15 PM

Been playing with the update most of the day today and the most remarkable feature for me is playing h.265 video. I'm able to play a single track 4k 29.97 frame rate 60 mbps clip with a camera lut loaded at best-full on a Radeon 7 system. On a 5700xt I can do the same at best-half. That's up from good-full and good-quarter on the previous build.

Cameras: Z-Cam E2 classic, Canon XF305, JVC GV-LS2, Canon 6D w/L-glass line.
Laptop: Dell XPS15-9570; i7-8750h 32gb (integrated Intel UHD-630 & Nvidia GTX-1050Ti)
Road: Intel NUC i7 8809g 32gb (integrated AMD VegaM 4gb graphics and Intel HD630)
Workstation: i9 9900k 32 gb (Sapphire AMD Radeon VII 16gb graphics and integrated Intel UHD630)
Workstation2: e5 1650v4 128 gb (Sapphire Nitro+ RX5700xt Navi 8gb graphics)
Workstation3: i7-980X 24gb (Sapphire Nitro+ Vega64 8gb graphics)
currently Vegas 17.452 (testing Vegas 18.284)

lenard-p wrote on 5/28/2020, 10:56 PM

How do you go with 60fps?

Adi-W wrote on 5/28/2020, 11:55 PM

@Glenn-C I am still with VP16 but same problem here working with masking in the Pan/Crop window. Indeed, such a pain and time-waster and my guess is that the masking is not GPU "accelerated". And I am not really optimistic that it will ever change.

Is there a reason why the Pan/Crop window is severely laggy when doing any kind of masking? Such a time-waster....

JN- wrote on 5/29/2020, 3:25 AM

The Intermediate lossless codec is still DOA. I posted previously on this here.

@VEGASHeman “Both "Lossless" and "Lossless - High Performance" presets are available, though some presets may not work on older GPUs (we have had good luck with "Lossless - High Performance" for both AVC and HEVC on the Pascal based cards). Once you are done rendering, you can verify the "Format Profile" using MediaInfo - it should show up as a "High 4:4:4" profile for AVC Lossless (HEVC Lossless profiles do not indicate this, unfortunately). You can play these files back in VEGAS, but you should set the Hardware Decoder to NVDEC (via Preferences -> FileIO) as we utilize the NVIDIA hardware for both encoding and decoding these files; using the default Intel QSV or the software decoder may show incorrect results.

I use Pascal and RTX cards, so thats not the issue. I get either zero byte and if not zero byte then corruption.

 

I know how to avoid rendering a zero byte file, (zero byte files occur when rendering to a high data rate) simply don’t set RC Mode = Vbr. See table below. Applies to other non lossless Nvenc codecs also.

 

One other small discovery I recently made, when rendering out to UHD (Pertains to a GTX render output only, not RTX) with a high data rate of say 135/100, not lossless, corruption occurs when you try to achieve an output file size of 100 Mbps typically using 135/106. No corruption occurs if you use 135/105 or less, but then the output uhd file falls short of 100 Mbps. The solution is to use the combination in the above table highlighted in light green, item 11. Be aware that that produces verrry slow seek times.

Unfortunately this doesn’t fix the lossless codec.

Last changed by JN- on 5/29/2020, 4:39 AM, changed a total of 6 times.

---------------------------------------------

Benchmarking thread

Codec Render Quality tables

---------------------------------------------

PC ... Corsair case, own build ...

CPU .. i9 9900K, iGpu UHD 630

Memory .. 32GB DDR4

Graphics card .. MSI RTX 2080 ti

Graphics driver .. latest studio

PSU .. Corsair 850i

Mboard .. Asus Z390 Code

 

Laptop ... (Acer Predator G9-793-77AC)

CPU .. i7-6700HQ Skylake-H

Memory ..32 GB DDR4, was previously 16 GB

Graphics card .. Nvidia GTX 1070

Graphics driver .. latest studio

djrikki2 wrote on 5/29/2020, 4:54 AM

Can we have both this version and the previous on the same machine? Just scared of installing a new one in case it falls over more than the last one that Im used to now

michael-harrison wrote on 5/29/2020, 5:03 AM

@djrikki2

You can have different major versions on the same machine but not different updates to the same version. Not without VMs or going through major hoops to install as different users.

System 1:

Processor        Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8700 CPU @ 3.20GHz, 3192 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s)

BaseBoard Product        ROG STRIX Z390-E GAMING

Installed Physical Memory (RAM)        32.0 GB

Adapter Description        NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660

Driver Version        Studio <the latest stable>

Resolution        1920 x 1080 x 60 hertz

Video Memory 6G GDDR5

 

System 2:

Lenovo Yoga 720

Core i7-7700 2.8Ghz quad core, 8 logical

16G ram

Intel HD 630 gpu

Nvidia GTX 1050 gpu

set wrote on 5/29/2020, 5:09 AM

If you are unsure, you may want to do an OS image backup first, so in case something goes wrong, you can restore to that previous state again.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 5/29/2020, 2:24 PM

@lenard-p

How do you go with 60fps?

Just tried it. On the Radeon 7 system had to reduce the quality to Best-Quarter. The 5700xt machine could not play the clip+lut without a drop from the 59.94 frame rate at any quality setting. Here's the media info on the test clip I used:

General
Complete name                            : D:\Yard 3\media\Yard 3 A001C0009_20200529135519_0001.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (iso2/hvc1/mp41)
File size                                : 3.04 GiB
Duration                                 : 4 min 16 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 102 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-05-29 17:55:19
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-05-29 17:55:19
com.zcam.camera.prepend                  : v0
CameraMaker                              : Z CAM
CameraModel                              : E2
com.zcam.camera.sn                       : 441A0070293
com.zcam.camera.fw                       : 0.95
com.zcam.camera.movieType                : MOVIE
com.zcam.camera.lut                      : Z-Log2
com.zcam.camera.iso                      : 500
com.zcam.camera.shutterSpeed             : 1/3200
com.zcam.camera.aperture                 : F1.8
com.zcam.camera.lensType                 : .64x EF16-35/2.8L USM
com.zcam.camera.lensFocalLength          : 22mm
com.zcam.camera.focusDistance            : 37460mm
com.zcam.camera.ev                       : 0.0
com.zcam.camera.aeLock                   : 1
com.zcam.camera.whiteBalanceMode         : Auto
com.zcam.camera.awbLock                  : 1
com.zcam.camera.whiteBalanceKelvin       : 5200K
com.zcam.camera.whiteBalanceTint         : 0
com.zcam.camera.sharpness                : Medium
com.zcam.camera.noiseReduction           : Weak
com.zcam.camera.projectFps               : 59.94
com.apple.proapps.shootingRate           : 59.94
com.zcam.camera.captureVfr               : Off
com.apple.proapps.cameraName             : A
com.apple.proapps.reel                   : 001
com.zcam.camera.battery                  : 8.3V
com.zcam.camera.temperature              : 45.2°C
com.zcam.camera.storage                  : Samsung Portable SSD T5
com.zcam.camera.splitIndex               : 0
com.apple.proapps.clipID                 : A001C0009_20200529135519_0001
com.zcam.camera.hash                     : 3c16
Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@Main
HDR format                               : SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 4 min 16 s
Bit rate                                 : 98.6 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.198
Stream size                              : 2.94 GiB (97%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-05-29 17:55:19
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-05-29 17:55:19
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Mastering display color primaries        : R: x=0.060000 y=0.330000, G: x=0.300000 y=0.150000, B: x=0.640000 y=0.600000, White point: x=0.312700 y=0.329000
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0000 cd/m2, max: 0 cd/m2
Codec configuration box                  : hvcCAudio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 4 min 16 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 128 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 256 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 3.84 MiB (0%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-05-29 17:55:19
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-05-29 17:55:19
Other
ID                                       : 3
Type                                     : Time code
Format                                   : QuickTime TC
Duration                                 : 4 min 16 s
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame                 : 13:55:19:00
Time code, striped                       : Yes
Title                                    : 001
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-05-29 17:55:19
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-05-29 17:55:19

 

Last changed by Howard-Vigorita on 5/29/2020, 2:26 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Cameras: Z-Cam E2 classic, Canon XF305, JVC GV-LS2, Canon 6D w/L-glass line.
Laptop: Dell XPS15-9570; i7-8750h 32gb (integrated Intel UHD-630 & Nvidia GTX-1050Ti)
Road: Intel NUC i7 8809g 32gb (integrated AMD VegaM 4gb graphics and Intel HD630)
Workstation: i9 9900k 32 gb (Sapphire AMD Radeon VII 16gb graphics and integrated Intel UHD630)
Workstation2: e5 1650v4 128 gb (Sapphire Nitro+ RX5700xt Navi 8gb graphics)
Workstation3: i7-980X 24gb (Sapphire Nitro+ Vega64 8gb graphics)
currently Vegas 17.452 (testing Vegas 18.284)

lenard-p wrote on 5/29/2020, 7:24 PM

 

How do you go with 60fps?

Just tried it. On the Radeon 7 system had to reduce the quality to Best-Quarter. The 5700xt machine could not play the clip+lut without a drop from the 59.94 frame rate at any quality setting.

Your 5700xt is the 6core 3.6ghz cpu. Do you get the 60fps at any setting when not using any vfx at all?

Your amd GPU's use gpu decoding now dont' they, and it's turned on? (not turned off due to some other problem)

Just trying to grasp what sort of increase in CPU cores and frequency is required to successfully run VP17 with HEVC 60fps 4k

 

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 5/30/2020, 1:52 AM
Your 5700xt is the 6core 3.6ghz cpu. Do you get the 60fps at any setting when not using any vfx at all?

Your amd GPU's use gpu decoding now dont' they, and it's turned on? (not turned off due to some other problem)

Just trying to grasp what sort of increase in CPU cores and frequency is required to successfully run VP17 with HEVC 60fps 4k

Yes, the 5700xt is in the 6-core xeon system. But I suspect hevc playback performance is more a function of the gpu than cpu cores. Got a used Vega 64 board on its way here. Hoping it gets the xeon allot closer to the 9900k/Radeon VII in both hevc playback and rendering performance. I'll post the numbers in my online chart.

The 60fps video will play on the Navi board, the frame rate just bounces around at any quality setting. Of course, if you turn proxies on that won't happen. Just rather not do that because they take so long to make. Probably unavoidable since I shoot mostly multicam so my fallback is looking for the fastest rendering gpu. Which is why I benchmark and tune my systems to within an inch of my life.

Cameras: Z-Cam E2 classic, Canon XF305, JVC GV-LS2, Canon 6D w/L-glass line.
Laptop: Dell XPS15-9570; i7-8750h 32gb (integrated Intel UHD-630 & Nvidia GTX-1050Ti)
Road: Intel NUC i7 8809g 32gb (integrated AMD VegaM 4gb graphics and Intel HD630)
Workstation: i9 9900k 32 gb (Sapphire AMD Radeon VII 16gb graphics and integrated Intel UHD630)
Workstation2: e5 1650v4 128 gb (Sapphire Nitro+ RX5700xt Navi 8gb graphics)
Workstation3: i7-980X 24gb (Sapphire Nitro+ Vega64 8gb graphics)
currently Vegas 17.452 (testing Vegas 18.284)

yi-h wrote on 5/31/2020, 1:26 PM


windows10 64bit
CPU Ryzen9 3900X
GPU RX5700

Vegas Pro17  PiP has a bug The second video goes black
Image bug
When a transparent image layer is overlaid with the background, part of the frame of the layer is displayed

Lines increase due to moving objects and changing magnification

These lines are displayed even if output


Radeon RX5700 not supported?

set wrote on 5/31/2020, 7:27 PM


windows10 64bit
CPU Ryzen9 3900X
GPU RX5700

Vegas Pro17  PiP has a bug The second video goes black
Image bug
When a transparent image layer is overlaid with the background, part of the frame of the layer is displayed

Radeon RX5700 not supported?

I tried checking with my images, no problem with me... have you double checked your images in the image editor?

Few times I also had this and find out the edges is not yet totally cleaned up.