Automatically set audio envelop points (audio ducking)

Peter_P wrote on 8/19/2023, 9:42 AM

I used to double-click on an event to generate a loop region and get 4 key points in the audio volume envelope track below close to the edges of the event. I can not remember how this is done. Can anyone please help me?

Comments

rraud wrote on 8/19/2023, 10:27 AM

Hi @Peter_P,

- Highlight a region or selection where you wish to add the envelope
- Dragging the envelope line up or down should add the four interpolation points

If you just want to attenuate (lower) an audio event, dragging the top edge of the event downward will adjust the event's gain (aka, trim).

lan-mLMC wrote on 8/19/2023, 10:34 AM

Vegasaur?

Several options are available for creating envelope points:

Four Points: Provides an easy way to add a group of four points at once. It is one of the most requested features when working with envelopes. This option will add four points to the selected envelopes based on the current selection area.

Interval: Adds a point at regular intervals.

Evenly Distributed: Creates the specified number of points, adding them at even intervals across the timeline.

From Markers / From Media Markers: Creates envelope points based on the marker positions and labels. To use this feature, place markers where you wish to add a point. In addition, a marker's label can be used as a value for the point.

Under Cursor: Creates a point at the cursor position.

https://vegasaur.com/envelope-points

Peter_P wrote on 8/19/2023, 11:29 AM

- Highlight a region or selection where you wish to add the envelope
- Dragging the envelope line up or down should add the four interpolation points

@rraud

Thanks very much!
I knew it was simple. But I had forgotten that the envelope points only appear when you move the envelope area.

wjauch wrote on 8/20/2023, 9:28 AM

Hi @Peter_P,

- Highlight a region or selection where you wish to add the envelope
- Dragging the envelope line up or down should add the four interpolation points

If you just want to attenuate (lower) an audio event, dragging the top edge of the event downward will adjust the event's gain (aka, trim).

Thank you. As someone who uses audio envelopes a lot, this (highlighting and dragging) is something I never knew about, but will be using a lot from now on.

Peter_P wrote on 8/20/2023, 10:16 AM

Yes, it is a very handy tool that I used very often but unfortunately not documented in the help file where it should be under '(audio) ducking'.

P.S. I have added (audio ducking) to the subject.

rraud wrote on 8/20/2023, 12:46 PM

FWIW, 'ducking' is typically when using a side-chaining with a compressor. Unfortunately, Vegas never supported native side-chaining (despite requests). Otherwise there only two or two of three compressor plug-ins available that can be triggered by a secondary track or bus. I tried the FabFilter and dBAudio side-chain compressors, but neither worked very well in my opinion, even with a 'dummy' track for a look-ahead trigger track Volume envelope automation is the best bet but can be time consuming. I sometimes additionally automate a multiband compressor to attenuate frequencies that interfere with the dialog but that takes even more time.
I think there are auto-ducking scripts available from the 'usual suspects' that I have not tried.
 

Peter_P wrote on 8/21/2023, 1:17 AM

One additional hint. The length of the fade can be set in Preferences / Editing. I have set it to 1 second Centered.

mark-y wrote on 8/21/2023, 11:02 AM

Old-school board jockeying with automation is still possible in Vegas, as in this ancient post. It's kind of a lost art.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/best-way-to-keep-volume-level-constant-normalise--88807/#ca531514

bitman wrote on 8/22/2023, 2:49 AM

@rraud I do not know what I am doing wrong, but it does not work for me, not in Vegas 20 nor in Vegas 21. I did not know it was possible to generate 4 points as it possibly never worked on my system. I checked the preference setting, I can add an envelope for volume, but the 4 points are never generated when highlighting and dragging the envelope. I can only add individual points. What am I doing wrong or missing in a setting?

For audio ducking I used vegasaur, it can automatically add them all over the timeline, but it would be nice if I can do it the Vegas way as you mention it myself, as vegasaur sometimes messes up automatic audioducking.

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (21 - build 315), VP 365 20, VP 19 post (latest build -651), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 16 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2024, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Pro 17, Spectral Layers Pro 10, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

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Peter_P wrote on 8/22/2023, 3:16 AM

... as vegasaur sometimes messes up automatic audioducking.

That's the reason whay I do it manually to keep full control.

@bitman

Can you please post the your Edit setting?

bitman wrote on 8/22/2023, 3:32 AM

@Peter_P here is my edit setting...

Last changed by bitman on 8/22/2023, 3:33 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (21 - build 315), VP 365 20, VP 19 post (latest build -651), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 16 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2024, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Pro 17, Spectral Layers Pro 10, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 23H2 (November 2023)
  • CPU: i9-13900K (upgraded my former CPU i9-12900K), Air Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc.: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

Peter_P wrote on 8/22/2023, 4:01 AM

Did you try to enable 'Automatically overlap ...' as shown here?

bitman wrote on 8/22/2023, 4:11 AM

@Peter_P @rraud I found out what the issue is, I was using the envelope edit tool (sounded the right tool to use when working with envelopes😏) - however the 4 points do not appear when you drag the envelope when using the envelope tool.

It works when using the normal tool. Not sure if it that is a bug or it is working as intended.

I added the volume envelope with right clicking when the envelope tool is active, then highlight a section and then drag the envelope. This results in total drag of the envelope over the whole track rather than adding 4 points within the highlighted selection.

 

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (21 - build 315), VP 365 20, VP 19 post (latest build -651), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 16 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2024, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Pro 17, Spectral Layers Pro 10, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 23H2 (November 2023)
  • CPU: i9-13900K (upgraded my former CPU i9-12900K), Air Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc.: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

rraud wrote on 8/22/2023, 10:04 AM

however the 4 points do not appear when you drag the envelope when using the envelope tool.

I am not sure what you mean and cannot duplicate the behavior. An envelope points string remain visible when dragging (at least in VP-21, bld 108).

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 8/22/2023, 10:48 AM

I found out what the issue is, I was using the envelope edit tool (sounded the right tool to use when working with envelopes😏) - however the 4 points do not appear when you drag the envelope when using the envelope tool.

It works when using the normal tool. Not sure if it that is a bug or it is working as intended.

@bitman That stymied me too till I realized that when I mark a region containing points with the Envelope Edit tool, it instead lights up all the points in the region so I can move them together. Which is a useful functionality. Personally, I think multi-point selection functionality would be more flexible if moved to the Selection Edit tool using box-select. One of my other daws does it like that. That would allow the Vegas 4-point insert function to be moved to the Envelope Edit tool which seems more logical.

bitman wrote on 8/22/2023, 1:14 PM

however the 4 points do not appear when you drag the envelope when using the envelope tool.

I am not sure what you mean and cannot duplicate the behavior. An envelope points string remain visible when dragging (at least in VP-21, bld 108).

@rraud

Your method for a quick audioduck (generating 4 points by dragging the volume envelope in a highlighted area) does not work if the envelope tool pointer is enabled. It works fine if the normal tool pointer is enabled.

@VEGASDerek

Not sure it is a bug tough, maybe this behavior is intended by design...

Last changed by bitman on 8/22/2023, 1:24 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (21 - build 315), VP 365 20, VP 19 post (latest build -651), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 16 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2024, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Pro 17, Spectral Layers Pro 10, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

  • OS: Windows 11 Pro 64, version 23H2 (November 2023)
  • CPU: i9-13900K (upgraded my former CPU i9-12900K), Air Cooler: Noctua NH-D15s
  • RAM: DDR5 Corsair 64GB (5600-40 Vengeance)
  • Graphics card: ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 TUF OC GAMING (24GB) 
  • Monitor: LG 38 inch ultra-wide (21x9) - Resolution: 3840x1600
  • C-drive: Corsair MP600 PRO XT NVMe SSD 4TB (PCIe Gen. 4)
  • Video drives: Samsung NVMe SSD 2TB (980 pro and 970 EVO plus) each 2TB
  • Mass Data storage & Backup: WD gold 6TB + WD Yellow 4TB
  • MOBO: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER
  • PSU: Corsair HX1500i, Case: Fractal Design Define 7 (PCGH edition)
  • Misc.: Logitech G915, Evoluent Vertical Mouse, shuttlePROv2

 

 

rraud wrote on 8/22/2023, 2:18 PM

(generating 4 points by dragging the volume envelope in a highlighted area) does not work if the 'envelope edit tool' is enabled

Normal behavior. The same with Vegas 9 and 16.