Comments

What he said.

While you are waiting for a reply, see if trimming in the VideoRedo trial version retains the v-log metadata.

@rkm82 This isn't a direct definitive answer, rather a results. I fed a ProRes 422 10 bit (1080-59.940) clip from an Atomos Ninja Flame using a GH4 with Panasonic's VlogL into Vegas Pro 16. After making a couple cuts, rendered it out with Magix Intermediate HQ. Then brought that clip into Vegas and made a side by side check to see the difference in the color scopes. There was a very, very slight change in the luminance, that I would have expected.

Here are the Mediainfo specs, original source first then the Vegas Magix Intermediate render.....

Disclaimer: I haven't actually tested this. In theory, if you don't do anything to the footage, it should just pass-through on render. Assuming 10 bit Vlog L profile footage from a Gh5 you would need to output an uncompressed (or nearly) 10 bit file from a Vegas 32 bit project with exactly the same specs as your footage.

Maybe try cineform filmscan2 10 bit 422 as well.

Depends... I know Magix Intermediate Codec didn't retain Rec2020 color space when rendered out of Vegas as of the previous version to the current one, I have not tested if that has been fixed since. So, there could be some color space conversion going on when dealing with VLOG if it is using Vgamut, and you could be losing/changing color in the process.

I think you'd need to select the proper V-Log color space in the render settings – and same for the clip properties (assumed you work in ACES project property).

A sample v-log file, uploaded by the OP, could save us a lot of speculation. The importance of retaining metadata is a key player here, methinks.

I have such footage available. But (imho) Vegas Pro never reads nor writes such metadata. It's a matter of manually selecting the correct properties for input and output.

I think you'd need to select the proper V-Log color space in the render settings – and same for the clip properties (assumed you work in ACES project property).

I did this with Rec2020 and it still converts back to Rec709. I've brought it to the attention of the developers. Again, not sure if it still does, this was a while back.

Ill be happy to test in VRD if someone has time to upload short original sample.

I'll try to get one up tomorrow. Not near the GH5 at the moment.

Thanks for the replies guys - sorry for the late reply.

Here's my homework ;-)

Sample file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3ntw6b7oqr65u9/vlog_test.MP4?dl=1 (180mb)
 

*******************

Media-Info:

General
Complete name                            : E:\Downloads\vlog_test.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (mp42/avc1)
File size                                : 173 MiB
Duration                                 : 9 s 9 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 161 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-03-12 15:00:57
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-03-12 15:00:57
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Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High 4:2:2@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, RefFrames               : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=15
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 9 s 9 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 150 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 180 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Standard                                 : Component
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.603
Stream size                              : 161 MiB (93%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-03-12 15:00:57
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-03-12 15:00:57
Color range                              : Full
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Big / Signed
Codec ID                                 : twos
Duration                                 : 9 s 9 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 1.65 MiB (1%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-03-12 15:00:57
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-03-12 15:00:57

Other
ID                                       : 3
Type                                     : Time code
Format                                   : QuickTime TC
Duration                                 : 9 s 9 ms
Time code of first frame                 : 13:12:49;15
Time code, striped                       : Yes
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-03-12 15:00:57
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-03-12 15:00:57
Bit rate mode                            : CBR

**********************************

Vegas Properties:

General
  Name: vlog_test.MP4
  Folder: E:\Downloads
  Type: AVC
  Size: 177.03 MB (181’278’747 bytes)
  Created: Dienstag, 12. März 2019, 15:03:14
  Modified: Dienstag, 12. März 2019, 15:00:56
  Accessed: Dienstag, 12. März 2019, 15:03:16
  Attributes: Archive

Streams
  Video: 00:00:09.009, 29.970 fps progressive, 3840x2160x32, AVC
  Audio: 00:00:09.009, 48’000 Hz; Stereo, PCM

Summary
  [TCFM]: 6

ACID information
  ACID chunk: no
  Stretch chunk: no
  Stretch list: no
  Stretch info2: no
  Beat markers: no
  Detected beats: no

Other metadata
  Regions/markers: no
  Command markers: no

Media manager
  Media tags: no

Plug-In
  Name: so4compoundplug.dll
  Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 16.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\so4compoundplug
  Format: AVC
  Version: Version 1.0 (Build 8532)
  Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

Also, my question would be - what are the settings to retain full color range (there are so many choices in terms of ACES color space, view transform etc.)?

Thanks for your help guys, much appreciated!

anyone?

The closest match to Vgamut would be the ST2084 (1000 nits) preset, it is also what you want to use if you record in the GH5's HLG mode, and also what you want to use if you want your output format to be HDR. Also set pixel format to 32 bit (full range). This kicks Vegas into HDR mode. This is the best way to retain the most of the color gamut and bit depth, though unfortunately this only works when rendering to the HEVC HDR10 preset. I've tried to render Rec2020 Magix Intermediate files without success, as I mentioned in my previous post... the renders default to Rec709. I have not tested with other formats.

Also, for best results when working with VLOG, edit on a HDR capable secondary monitor using windows 10 in HDR mode (must have a GPU with HDMI 2.0 output on it). This will let you see the high bit depth color you are editing with (must use fullscreen preview). If you go into the preferences menu, and look under display adapter settings, there is a "enable HDR output"checkbox at the bottom. Check it. Also, make sure you are also recording in 10 bit mode with the GH5, either in Vlog or HLG modes.

From there, If you want to target 8bit rec709 screens, change your pixel format back to 8 bit and make adjustments to the color as needed.

A couple other things to consider... If you are using a GH5, it doesn't have the dynamic range to fully realize VLOG's capabilities. True Vgamut like you get from the EVA1 is going to give you dynamic range/color beyond even Rec2020.

Here are the color spaces compared.

Hi fr0sty, first of all, thank you very much for your answers :-) Much appreciated.

Unfortunately, they make very little sense to me, as I'm not familiar with the terminology. The reason I've asked the question initially because I want to "extract" shorter snippets from larger takes I shot, to send to an editor (who knows color grading and probably what you're talking about, haha...), but I don't want to "cripple" the material by the "rendering" of that snippet.

I take it from your answer, though, that the  HEVC HDR10 preset would be best to render.

Now, where do I find that? I have Magix HEVC/AAC MP4, but in that there's no HEVC HDR10 settings, and even when I customize one of the modes, I can't seem to set "HDR10" anywhere?

Thanks.. :-)

If you want to cut snippets out of your file, the best way would be a non-destructive edit. Try doing what this tutorial suggests.

I thought you were wanting to know how to encode different formats in VLOG... unfortunately that isn't possible, and last time I checked there were some bugs preventing it from doing the closest thing to it (converting to a similar color space) properly. HEVC HDR10 is as close as it gets in a way I know works, but HEVC isn't the best format to send to an editor.

I think there are some Vegas tools that can do non-destructive trims as well, but someone else will have to point you in that direction.

you, sir, ROCK!! This is a GODSEND. THANK YOU SO MUCH! :-)