Converting 60p to 29.97i

colin-anderson wrote on 3/17/2018, 7:57 AM

Hi, I have a 60fps progressive animation that I need to add to an otherwise 29.97fps interlaced timeline and render it the same. I'm trying to convert the progressive to interlaced before importing it to Vegas. I've tried with TMPG. I've tried with Vegas. So far, it seems all I'm able to accomplish is 60p down to 30p. I would like to maintaine the smooth motion of the 60fps. I was under the impression that if I started with 60fps, I could do that. Am I wasting my time here or is there a way to do this.

Thank you for the help.

Comments

Musicvid wrote on 3/17/2018, 8:21 AM

What you are describing seems to be the reverse of "bobbing," a technique used to smooth native interlaced footage by field based interpolation.

While what you say can be done, unless you actually need to deliver interlaced, I see no advantage as you would be losing 50% of the information in each progressive frame to turn them into fake "fields."

If your goal is optical disc, just render using the interlaced template in Vegas with Resampling turned OFF.

If you are mixing 60p and 29.97i on the same timeline and don't need interlaced for optical disc, a novel approach would to Bob the latter up to 59.976p in Handbrake, then bring it all into a true 60p Vegas Project, again probably with Resampling OFF.

The result should be better than compromising your beautiful 60p animation.

OldSmoke wrote on 3/17/2018, 8:26 AM

You don’t need to convert the 60p, just drop in your 60i project, disable resemble and render it out as 60i. Vegas will perfectly interlace it.

I have done it many times as I shoot exclusivly in 60p and need to deliver 60i for DVD.

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colin-anderson wrote on 3/17/2018, 9:46 AM

What you are describing seems to be the reverse of "bobbing," a technique used to smooth native interlaced footage by field based interpolation.

While what you say can be done, unless you actually need to deliver interlaced, I see no advantage as you would be losing 50% of the information in each progressive frame to turn them into fake "fields."

If your goal is optical disc, just render using the interlaced template in Vegas with Resampling turned OFF.

If you are mixing 60p and 29.97i on the same timeline and don't need interlaced for optical disc, a novel approach would to Bob the latter up to 59.976p in Handbrake, then bring it all into a true 60p Vegas Project, again probably with Resampling OFF.

The result should be better than compromising your beautiful 60p animation.


The rest of my footage is native 1920X1080@60i 29.97fps (from camcorder). The final destination is blu ray. Converting it to 30p removes the smooth motion in panning shots.

 

You don’t need to convert the 60p, just drop in your 60i project, disable resemble and render it out as 60i. Vegas will perfectly interlace it.

I have done it many times as I shoot exclusivly in 60p and need to deliver 60i for DVD.


I tried that but I somehow lose the smooth motion. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

colin-anderson wrote on 3/17/2018, 11:15 AM

Ok. I'm trying another approach. I can publish my animation sequence (from Flash) in progressive jpeg still images or in an avi movie. The dimensions are 6203x1841 but in Flash, I use a camera script sized 1920x1080 which moved around the stage. When publishing in swf that works but when exporting in avi or jpeg, the script is not applied, hence the 6203x1841 dimension. I thought that perhaps there was a way to use pan/crop in Vegas to recreated the camera movement, and then render the final in whatever format I need it in to have it interlaced and smooth at 29.97fps. Obviously I cannot pan/crop every single frame so I tried rendering the image sequence into an uncompressed avi of the maximum size Vegas will allow. Stil, when importing it into Vegas and zooming into it, the original resolution of the still images is lost. Any suggestions?

Thanks for the help.

OldSmoke wrote on 3/17/2018, 1:09 PM

I tried that but I somehow lose the smooth motion. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Do you loose smooth playback or smooth motion in the final 60i render?

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
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colin-anderson wrote on 3/17/2018, 3:49 PM

I tried that but I somehow lose the smooth motion. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Do you loose smooth playback or smooth motion in the final 60i render?

I loose smooth motion.

Musicvid wrote on 3/17/2018, 6:08 PM

Colin,

I suggested you BOB your 60i interlaced footage to 60p in Handbrake, set your Project and Render at 60p in Vegas. Really, that's all it should take.

You will not be able to render 60p as 30p and retain motion smoothness.

colin-anderson wrote on 3/17/2018, 6:50 PM

Colin,

I suggested you BOB your 60i interlaced footage to 60p in Handbrake, set your Project and Render at 60p in Vegas. Really, that's all it should take.

You will not be able to render 60p as 30p and retain motion smoothness.


Hi Musicvid, 99% of the footage of this project is 1920x1080@60i 29.97fps and there's quite a bit of it. The final destination is blu ray disk. The progressive animation is sort of the black sheep in all this. I was hoping there would be another way to just convert the 60p animation into smooth 29.97fps interlaced. I thought that because I was starting with 60 full frames per second, interlacing it and retain smoothness would be simple sincle all the frame information is there, as opposed to try and convert 30p into 60i.

Musicvid wrote on 3/17/2018, 7:22 PM

The final destination is blu ray disk. 

Thanks for sharing, finally, but what Old Smoke and I said is the best you will get on BluRay disc. No disagreement anywhere.

If your goal is optical disc, just render using the interlaced template in Vegas with Resampling turned OFF.

By "template," I mean a BluRay 1080i DVDA template in Vegas, with no alteration.

 

Musicvid wrote on 3/17/2018, 7:40 PM

Interlacing it and retain smoothness would be simple sincle all the frame information is there, as opposed to try and convert 30p into 60i.

-- "29.97i" and "60i" are exactly the same thing. The former more commonly describes SD, and the latter more commonly describes HD. Both are typically. 29.970 frames, contained in two interlaced fields at 59.976 per second. (CG animation often works at true 60.00 progressive frames per second.)

-- "All the frame information" is cut in half when you halve the frame rate (30p) or convert to 60i (29.97i). It's an unavoidable imposition of arithmetic.

 

 

OldSmoke wrote on 3/17/2018, 8:13 PM

When rendering to 60i, all Vegas does with your 60p footage is using the odd lines from the first frame and the even lines from the next frame, or the other way around. That would be exactly what a camera does that records 60i.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

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GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

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Musicvid wrote on 3/17/2018, 9:43 PM

You know, phrases like " fluid motion" and "transparent audio" are beginning to get to me.

They are simply a moving target in terms of human cognition, which is not easily modeled.

3POINT wrote on 3/18/2018, 1:37 AM

Hi, I have a 60fps progressive animation that I need to add to an otherwise 29.97fps interlaced timeline and render it the same.

When the animation is exactly 60p and not 59,940p, than just import your animation at projects framerate (29,970i). (right-click animation in project media folder and choose "Add at Project Frame Rate"). No need to disable resampling and Vegas will make smooth interlaced from progressive as Oldsmoke explained.

Last changed by 3POINT on 3/18/2018, 1:40 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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colin-anderson wrote on 3/18/2018, 11:37 AM

Hi 3Point, thank you for the tip. Adding at Project Frame Rate doubles the length of the footage in the timeline, Resampling is disabled. If I render this, will it not make it playback at half the speed and twice as long? What should I do next?

OldSmoke wrote on 3/18/2018, 11:45 AM

Hi 3Point, thank you for the tip. Adding at Project Frame Rate doubles the length of the footage in the timeline, Resampling is disabled. If I render this, will it not make it playback at half the speed and twice as long? What should I do next?

Are you sure your project is set to 60i?

Can you make a screen shot of your project settings and post it?

Last changed by OldSmoke on 3/18/2018, 11:45 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

colin-anderson wrote on 3/18/2018, 1:49 PM

Here are the project properties