DV25 video properties wrongly reported as progressive by Vegas and Med

Former user wrote on 6/24/2018, 10:29 AM

DV25 video properties wrongly reported as progressive by Vegas and Mediainfo ...

Has anyone else noticed this?  I checked out several DV25 files and those that were incorrectly reported by Vegas matched those by Mediainfo also. That is both VP and Mediainfo reported the same DV25 files as progressive instead of interlaced.

All files were captured the same way using the Vegas capture module .. from VHS player to DV cam. as pass through then firewire output to Vegas capture software.

I found no pattern with respect to file size, I thought initially that the larger files were reported as progressive only, but not so.

Meant to say that I checked using the last build of VP13 and VP15.

Just found one file, there may be more, that Mediainfo reports as Interlaced, which would be correct, but VP15 reports as Progressive.

Comments

Musicvid wrote on 6/24/2018, 5:54 PM

We're you sure to Match Media Properties in your project? It's a specific procedure.

Please post both sets of properties for your source video, so the moderators can see which decoder Vegas used.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

Former user wrote on 6/24/2018, 6:33 PM

My project properties are set to Progressive, should be Interlaced, as DV25 is only interlaced, LFF.

AVIPLUG.DLL is used.  I accidently came across this issue while chasing down a slightly different one, though I think this misreading by VP of the DV25 file may be the cause of my related issue. 

I set the project properties after these screen captures to interlaced, saved, reloaded and VP still reports file as progressive, not interlaced. 

"Match Media Properties in your project? It's a specific procedure"

Matching my project properties to source DV25 file gives the screen shot

Musicvid wrote on 6/24/2018, 7:59 PM

Looks like a bug candidate. Nick will know if it's already in the backlog.

In the meantime, change your Source Properties to Interlaced LFF.

Changing project properties alone won't do the trick, but do select a Deinterlace Method.

Former user wrote on 6/25/2018, 3:10 AM

Ok thanks. The related issue (stepping/combing of interlaced material when panning and scaling applied) isn’t solved in this case by applying a deinterlace method in project properties. Maybe been blocked because Vegas sees it as progressive not interlaced?

I don’t want to muddy the waters here with the related issue, I have a bit more testing to do on it today.

I will come back to it.

Musicvid wrote on 6/25/2018, 7:29 AM

Next step will be to upload a source sample to a fileshare (not YouTube). I'd like to see it too.

Vegas will not see your source as progressive if you change your Media Properties (your second image from the left) to Interlaced, Lower Field First.

It's a Bandaid until the bug is addressed, and you will have to do it with every similar media file for the time being.

Then you will Match Media Settings, set your project to Best, Interpolate. Preview combing is normal, depending on settings.

This exact procedure (skip nothing) is absolutely necessary if you will be scaling, pan/crop, zoom, or modifying output resolution in any way whatsoever. If you get swiggles, your render property is not Best.

If this does not work, your file is wonky, and we'll need to see that source example before going forward.

Or you can do what I do, and decomb in Handbrake first, giving back progressive mp4.

Former user wrote on 6/25/2018, 10:08 AM

"Vegas will not see your source as progressive if you change your Media Properties "  Truly excellent, also works in the 2 tabbed properties if file is selected in Project Media, thank you. Tested aok, combing removed, superb bandaid. So my related issue is sorted.

I have 2 DV25 files, this project wasn't one of them, that give Progressive 'P' in Vegas and Interlaced 'I' by Mediainfo.

Approximately half of all DV25 source files, about 14-15 projects, are reporting as 'P' instead of 'I' within VP and also 'P' in Mediainfo.

So rather than upload this particular file, its one of the 'P' 'P' files, (to protect the innocent :D) I'll recapture a very small portion of one of the 2 files just mentioned above, 'P' in Vegas and 'I' in Mediainfo. This file portion doesn't have a combing example, its V8 copied to my oldest vhs tape, but at this stage I guess you simply need to see its insides.  Hopefully recapturing the same old vhs tape and using the same method will give the same 'P' results, may take a while to get done.

Thanks again for a really good fix.  

 

Former user wrote on 6/25/2018, 11:09 AM

Ok, I captured a small piece of the tape, its now reading correctly as interlaced LFF.  I tried later to capture with VP14, no luck, then VP15 again and no longer working, see error message.

I  later tried VP 14, VP13 and Vegas Platinum 13. I reinstalled VP15 and still get the error message, also tried a different tape, Camera video capture is now crocked.  I checked the firewire card driver, hasn't changed.  This capture software was always hit or miss, at this stage can't see Magix bothering.   

 

So the Mediainfo properties that I've supplied above and other screenshots will have to do.  I did all of the capturing last year so, maybe VP or Win 10 has changed things in the intervening time?

VP15 capture only gave this error after trying with VP14.  I tried VP14 because I may have captured with VP14.  I did most of the work from mid last year.

Musicvid wrote on 6/25/2018, 11:49 PM

If you still have one of the tapes, try capturing with Scenealyzer and see if there is a difference.

Seriously, no file header should say DV and progressive for tape format. It just doesn't sound right.

Former user wrote on 6/26/2018, 6:05 AM

I have all of the tapes, they are vhs, svhs tapes with home movies, PAL region. In the day I thought it was a smart move to copy my v8 tapes to vhs and overwrite some of the v8's👎 Of approximately 17 vhs svhs tapes so far captured and tested with Vegas and Mediainfo, Vegas shows 6 as 'P' and Mediainfo shows 7 as 'P'. On 2 tapes they differ where Vegas shows 'P' and Mediainfo shows 'I'. The piece I captured yesterday was an 'I' as it should be, but last years fully captured tape shows as 'P', for the same tape, but not now captured from the start. A lot of these tapes have corruption at the start and last year I always captured from the very start. Maybe the initial capture softwares reading was faulty, though still saved as DV25?

Thanks for the Sceneanalyzer tip, the problem is that yesterday, before the Vegas capture module got crocked, when I captured from within the tape it was fine, i.e. 'I', so using Sceneanalyzer won’t change things much, but i’ll certainly give it a go, seen as how I have no other capture software. Your band aid certainly will do me as, no way am I recapturing for reediting, testing ok.

I have looked for a pattern, file size, vhs vs svhs tapes but found none.

This is the first time that i’ve found running a previous version of VP i.e. 14, had a detrimental effect on the current in use Version 15. So there must be some interconntivity between versions for the capture module.

As an aside ..

The svhs tapes may or may not have svhs material on them, I don’t know. The vhs player is one of those psuedo shvs ones, so when the svhs tapes were played for capture and then only black and white image appears you press a button to output colour, composite. I handed in a few of these svhs tapes to a company to capture, the guy said it was svhs content looking at his machine, but some of the older machines only read the casette holes to decide on content, the later ones read the tape content to decide. Unfortunately I didn’t have the wit back in the day to acquire a svhs deck, when my svhs camera went bye bye. Ebay is an option but no way of knowing if what you’re paying for is even working ok.

Former user wrote on 6/26/2018, 6:23 AM

The fact that Vegas and Mediainfo differ on reading the metadata for 2 files may point to wrongly written/corrupted metadata. The file contents are all interlaced though.

Musicvid wrote on 6/26/2018, 7:15 AM

 

An do try the "decomb first in Handbrake" trick for one of your captures, it seems to tame the jaggies a bit better for me.

Sorry for the bold words above. Blame it on antihistamines.

And I am smiling that we were able to find a workaround ;?)

Former user wrote on 6/26/2018, 8:32 AM

Yes really good workaround, I thought id have to maybe remove all of the slight crops in pan crop.

Recapturing isn’t an attractive option, the tapes are early eighties on to early nineties, some have already declined badly to an earlier, capture, a few years ago. I'm quite amazed that they’ve lasted intact so long.

I only accidentally noticed this 'P' issue when I decided to Archive the projects to Cineform recently.

Question: Given I now have your workaround, and we know that the source material is LFF, given that EVERY, event in all projects has a scaling in Pan Crop, and so Vegas has to deinterlace just about everything as it scales ... Is there any point in archiving Cineform avi's to LFF, instead wouldn’t archiving Cineform files to progressive be just as good?

Musicvid wrote on 6/26/2018, 2:59 PM

Actually, Vegas has to Deinterlace before it scales, so I skip that and Deinterlace first in other programs which are mostly incompatible with Cineform intermediates. Just an alternate workflow.

For archiving the output in Cineform, I wouldn't reinterlace it.

Sorry I don't have a good answer for that.

Musicvid wrote on 6/26/2018, 3:09 PM

Feel free to frame my earlier rant as a solution, if not a forever solution.

I'll make another post about how Vegas and MediaInfo poll different things to best-guess your file's properties.

Former user wrote on 6/26/2018, 3:42 PM

Ok, I used the SClive program to capture a small section of one of the 'I' - 'P' tapes. This tape like a good few others has breakup etc at the start and I suspected that the problem may lie there.

I captured several samples, most were 'I' but a few 'P'.  I narrowed it down and saw that the 'Blue' screen section at the very start of the clip before any image is laid down causes the DV25 to get flagged as a Progressive clip.  Once I avoided recording this 'Blue' screen section I always got an Interlaced clip.

Mediainfo above of the same tape.  The tape had a small piece of an old B&W movie at the start, proceeded by the 'Blue' section then it was a home movie tape.

Meant to say that both VP and Mediainfo agree as to Interlaced or Progressive for both clips.

Musicvid wrote on 7/4/2018, 6:53 AM

Yes, Vegas captureonly reads the first bit of a file to snag some of it's properties. If Scenealyzer is working or the previous bandaid works connsistently, I wouldn't recapture any more to preserve what's left of your stretched tape.

The better rescue option for damaged tape is called the advc 300 if it's worth the cost.

https://www.amazon.com/Canopus-ADVC300-Advanced-Digital-Converter/product-reviews/B0006UMGHE

Former user wrote on 7/4/2018, 12:43 PM

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