Editing dialog and additional sounds in Vegas.

Former user wrote on 10/16/2021, 7:09 PM

This is for Vegas 19, I have a dialog track, with music tracks beneath. When I trim/cut the dialog, the music tracks beneath are also cut, which makes no sense. There appears to be no way to avoid this. Also, if I trim/edit a dialog bit, I want to be able to 'join' sections. For instance, some people hesitate as they speak and I trim out those hesitations, but I do not want hundreds of little audio fragments to move around. I want this 'joined' as one chunk, or chunks that I wish to organize, like chunk of topic 'a', chunk of topic 'b' and so on.

Comments

Dexcon wrote on 10/16/2021, 8:07 PM

When I trim/cut the dialog, the music tracks beneath are also cut

Two things that can cause this are: 1/ if all the tracks are highlighted when the split is performed; or 2/ the lower tracks are grouped with the VO track. With the latter, all events in a group are split even though the split is made to one of those tracks only.

Re the VO track, Solo that track and then render it or a loop selection to a .wav file and then import the render which will be just one 'chunk'.

 

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & 22, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 19.0.3, BCC 2025, Mocha Pro 2025.0, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX11 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

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Former user wrote on 10/16/2021, 9:11 PM

@Dexcon Thank you for the response. As I only edited the dialog section, there was no need to touch the other audio tracks below. I did try to solo the track, but the other audio below is still affected. The only way to be sure is if I move the other audio completely out of the way. That is a little frustrating. I would also like to 'join' audio bits into chunks without rendering. Perhaps this is something that Vegas devs can look into, the ability to isolate audio tracks and join dialog chunks together, wthout having to render, like on other DAWs. I also use Sound Forge Proand when editing, it is like the program is taking a massive bowel movement to save, like it is re-rendering, whereas other programs save the audio more rapidly. I like to hit save often and it is not viable in SFP.

rraud wrote on 10/17/2021, 11:12 AM

I would also like to 'join' audio bits into chunks without rendering

Without rendering? .. the only things I can think of are, Create a "Group" of the events, or 'Save as' (a loop region) of the solo'd events and then 'Nest' the comped <.veg> file in-place (or over) the existing events.
btw, if you render the events together as new audio event in the PCM format, there would not be any quality loss. I believe HOS (Happy Otter Scripts) has a script to do this. Vegasaur (or other folks) may have scripts as well.

Former user wrote on 10/17/2021, 9:06 PM

So in programs like Reaper, Harrison Mixbus/Ardour, Adobe Audition and Audacity, you can make a whole whack of changes to an audio file and save to your hearts' content and then render/export when you are ready. Are you saying you cannot do that in SFP?

Musicvid wrote on 10/17/2021, 9:59 PM

Are you saying you cannot do that in SFP?

No, no one said that. It is abundantly simple.

Ungroup the audio from the other events. Deselect all but the audio event you wish to work with. That's all it takes.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/got-questions-consult-the-tutorials-first-please--120282/

 

Alex-Pitel wrote on 10/18/2021, 8:32 AM

Just make it lock. Right click on the event > switches > Lock.

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rraud wrote on 10/18/2021, 9:21 AM

Are you saying you cannot do that in SFP?

Yes, but is a different procedure.. and this is the Vegas audio forum, so it is assumed to be a VP query

 

Former user wrote on 10/19/2021, 2:09 AM

@Musicvid You mean abundantly frustrating.I am not grouping them. The tracks below keeping getting caught. I am not selecting them in ANY WAY. They are several tracks below. It keeps getting caught. It is so that I cannot edit. I worked with many DAWS/NLE's and normally, when you select a track, THAT is the one you work with unless you specify otherwise. You don't have to lock/unlock/split atoms. But on Vegas, it HAS to screw up the ones below.

walter-i. wrote on 10/19/2021, 3:10 AM

I am not grouping them. The tracks below keeping getting caught. I am not selecting them in ANY WAY. They are several tracks below. It keeps getting caught. It is so that I cannot edit.

I just tried - as you described in Vegas Edit 19 - nothing shifts at all - the audio track can be cut individually, as often as you want, without affecting the music tracks.
Somewhere in your project there is a worm.  

Start a new project as a test and see if it is there, or do a reset - point 14 in this tutorial.
https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/de/forum/vegas-pro-faqs-and-troubleshooting-guides--104787/

RogerS wrote on 10/19/2021, 3:25 AM

So in programs like Reaper, Harrison Mixbus/Ardour, Adobe Audition and Audacity, you can make a whole whack of changes to an audio file and save to your hearts' content and then render/export when you are ready. Are you saying you cannot do that in SFP?

SoundForge can certainly do that (audio clean-up, too). Video editing is non-destructive until the render so it's a different way of working.

Former user wrote on 10/19/2021, 3:53 AM

@walter-i. Yeah, thanks. Bad couple of days editing a project that is moving slowly. A prior project was a bit easier because I was editing my own voice over. But I am editing an interviewee who frequently shifts topics and then revisits with a crap ton of audio below so when something gets caught I go into a rage. A lot of tight editing and racking my brains trying to figure out how to best group and arrange the fragments, plus plucking out the hesitations.

@RogerS Yeah, yeah, SFP, @rraud reminded me of the .frg files. I think SFP defaults into wav when you hit save when that should really be the last thing when the project is ready.

walter-i. wrote on 10/19/2021, 4:29 AM

@walter-i. Yeah, thanks. Bad couple of days editing a project that is moving slowly. A prior project was a bit easier because I was editing my own voice over. But I am editing an interviewee who frequently shifts topics and then revisits with a crap ton of audio below so when something gets caught I go into a rage. A lot of tight editing and racking my brains trying to figure out how to best group and arrange the fragments, plus plucking out the hesitations.

@Former user
But your description says nothing at all about whether you have tried either of my suggestions............
Troubleshooting is a constant narrowing down of the various possibilities - complaining helps exactly nothing.

Former user wrote on 10/19/2021, 4:58 AM

Yep, i'm stuck in a bad situation unless i redo the project in something else, like you suggest.

Dexcon wrote on 10/19/2021, 5:15 AM

... unless i redo the project in something else ...

Just a suggestion ... before starting again, try opening a ne project in Vegas Pro 19 (hopefully it is build 381) and copy/paste the entire timeline from your existing project into the new 'blank' project (Ctrl+A the exisitng timeline, then Ctrl+C - then Ctrl-V in to the new project). This only copies the media, not the .veg file data. You'll need to reset any Track or Project level FX (not sure about Event level FX though).

Another possibility is to do a full reset of Vegas Pro 19 back to its default settings - https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-can-i-reset-vegas-pro-to-default-settings--104646/ - to see if that clears Vegas Pro 19 of its problematic splitting action. If only one audio track is selected and the other tracks aren't grouped to it, suffice to say that splitting the lower tracks should not be happening. That is more than annoying.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & 22, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 19.0.3, BCC 2025, Mocha Pro 2025.0, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX11 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11:

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

 

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walter-i. wrote on 10/19/2021, 5:21 AM

All you need to do is create a small test project, as in this example, cut the sound track in a few places, and you'll know whether Vegas is malfunctioning (and you should reset it) or whether you have applied a grouping somewhere, as @Musicvid pointed out.

Edit: @Dexcon was faster ......After that, you can implement dexcon's suggestions.

Dexcon wrote on 10/19/2021, 5:35 AM

All you need to do is create a small test project

Yes, an excellent suggestion.

 ... or whether you have applied a grouping somewhere ...

I believe that grouping is not the issue here because the OP said earlier that to avoid the split rippling down the lower tracks, he's moved the music media on the lower tracks out of the way. If they were grouped with the VO track, then the VO media would have also moved along with the music media events. And he's also said that the problem exists even if only the media event on the VO track is the only media event/track highlighted.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & 22, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 19.0.3, BCC 2025, Mocha Pro 2025.0, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX11 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11:

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

 

LAPTOP:

Dell Inspiron 5310 EVO 13.3"

i5-11320H CPU

C Drive: 1TB Corsair Gen4 NVMe M.2 2230 SSD (upgraded from the original 500 GB SSD)

Monitor is 2560 x 1600 @ 60 Hz

misohoza wrote on 10/19/2021, 7:28 AM

@Former user

Do you have a time selection active when splitting the event or just split at cursor?

rraud wrote on 10/19/2021, 9:10 AM

Select the event(s) you wish to split, if they are not selected all the events will be split at the cursor point.

you have applied a grouping somewhere

The "Ignore event grouping" command is a fast/easy way to temporarily suspend grouping of events.

gary-rebholz wrote on 10/19/2021, 9:11 AM

@Former user, Just so that we're all clear on the spliting rules, and this assumes nothing is grouped and all events mentioned below are touched by the timeline cursor:

  • If one or more events is selected, those will all be split, but any non-selected event is left unsplit
  • If all events are selected, they will all be split
  • If no events are selected, all events that touch the timeline cursor will be split

If there is also a time selection:

  • only selected events touched by one or both edges of the time selection will be split
  • any selected event touched by both edges of the time selection will be split twice (at each time selection edge)

If all else fails, as a workaround so you can get your project done:

  1. Use the Selection Edit tool in horizontal mode to select every event on every track other than the one you want to split
  2. With the Normal Edit tool, right-click any of the selected events and choose Switches | Lock from the context menu

With all of the other events locked, you can split the one you want freely without affecting the others. Note that this is not necessary in the normal course, but since you have something unidentified going on, this might be a work around that saves you.

Former user wrote on 10/20/2021, 10:01 PM

@rraud @gary-rebholz Thank you for the detailed answers. Generally I work on audio in other programs and then import into VP and it is just a matter of arranging things. Now I am using VP in a more ambitious way for audio that involves complex edits and sound design and also doing ideations (experimenting, trying different things) and 'deep edits', so it may just be a matter of getting used to this program to this depth. The interview segments are on track one, where there is a lot of splitting and rearranging (I click on the item and split/arrange/etc) and below are the various sounds and several music tracks and while working just on track one, the tracks below would repeatedly get caught in the split, so it is a great option to lock them so they remain untouched and/or the 'ignore event grouping' also look like what I need. Thank you very much.

gary-rebholz wrote on 10/21/2021, 8:24 AM

@Former user, you're welcome--I hope that helps you. Good luck with your new adventure!