GTX 1070 and 1080 Users -- Worth Reading

Musicvid wrote on 4/28/2020, 12:30 PM

The following post appeared on Handbrake yesterday. In light of many recent complaints focused on Vegas' performance with these cards, you may want to consider this:

To get usable hevc encoding with Nvidia card you need the Turing NVEnc, this means it has to be a 1650 Super or better (1660/20xx). The non-Super 1650 don't have this, nor do any of the older Nvidia cards like your 1080 and there's currently no AMD cards with what I would consider an usable hevc encoder.

And as others have noted, even the Turing NVEnc is in the "speed, not quality per bit" group but there's a number of cases where it makes good sense like streaming.

Comments

JN- wrote on 4/28/2020, 3:07 PM

@Musicvid "To get usable hevc encoding with Nvidia card you need the Turing NVEnc"

Not what I've found, in the HORQ testing I used a GTX 1070 and an RTX 2080. The reason I posted values for both GTX and RTX for Nvenc h264 (currently doing both for Hevc) is to show the small quality improvement that the RTX generation brings.

Maybe that refers to a very specific render setting issue?

Last changed by JN- on 4/28/2020, 3:08 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

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VFR2CFR, Variable frame rate to Constant frame rate link to zip here.

Copies Video Converts Audio to AAC, link to zip here.

Convert 2 Lossless, link to ZIP here.

Convert Odd 2 Even (frame size), link to ZIP here

Benchmarking Continued thread + link to zip here

Codec Render Quality tables zip

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Musicvid wrote on 4/28/2020, 3:19 PM

I don't know. I don't own either, so it was an informational post.

But a link to your informational post would certainly seem helpful to assist folks to make up their own minds, wouldn't it? [wink /]

;?)

JN- wrote on 4/28/2020, 3:42 PM

@Musicvid Yes indeed, I was just waiting for the HORQ test to finish so that I could update here accordingly, with the new hevc data. Your post here reminded me that I hadn't done the Nvenc hevc test for both RTX and GTX, although I did previously already do both for Nvenc h264.

Link to previous tables here. Scroll near to the bottom of the page for them.

Link to dropbox zip with screenshots and spreadsheets here.

 

FHD below.

 

Last changed by JN- on 4/28/2020, 3:54 PM, changed a total of 5 times.

---------------------------------------------

VFR2CFR, Variable frame rate to Constant frame rate link to zip here.

Copies Video Converts Audio to AAC, link to zip here.

Convert 2 Lossless, link to ZIP here.

Convert Odd 2 Even (frame size), link to ZIP here

Benchmarking Continued thread + link to zip here

Codec Render Quality tables zip

---------------------------------------------

PC ... Corsair case, own build ...

CPU .. i9 9900K, iGpu UHD 630

Memory .. 32GB DDR4

Graphics card .. MSI RTX 2080 ti

Graphics driver .. latest studio

PSU .. Corsair 850i

Mboard .. Asus Z390 Code

 

Laptop… XMG

i9-11900k, iGpu n/a

Memory 64GB DDR4

Graphics card … Laptop RTX 3080

Musicvid wrote on 4/28/2020, 3:56 PM

Thanks for your thoroughness, as always.

I regretably didn't mention that the Vegas posts I have been responding to are all related to GPU/CPU usage ratio, a presumed collateral effect of the card's basic functionality; in fact, those posters never mentioned quality metrics (to which they seem oblivious), in deference to their beloved speed comparisons.

Any chance that trivial usage information surfaced in your tests, as well?

JN- wrote on 4/28/2020, 5:58 PM

@Musicvid Delighted, as I said, your prompted me to fix a hole in the data.

I intentionally never attempt to derive anything re: gpu usage because I suspect that its a little bit like studying the basic dimensions of an aeroplane and from that inferring something about its characteristics, capabilities.

Cpu usage, yes, it can tell you when its maxed out at say 100%, as expected while doing a cpu only render.

The problem is that with say Nvenc, HW encoding, there are so many things at play. If there are few FX that use the gpu, then the asic with the cpu will do most of the heavy lifting, and then people wonder why their gpu appears lifeless. I leave that to those more knowledgeable.

---------------------------------------------

VFR2CFR, Variable frame rate to Constant frame rate link to zip here.

Copies Video Converts Audio to AAC, link to zip here.

Convert 2 Lossless, link to ZIP here.

Convert Odd 2 Even (frame size), link to ZIP here

Benchmarking Continued thread + link to zip here

Codec Render Quality tables zip

---------------------------------------------

PC ... Corsair case, own build ...

CPU .. i9 9900K, iGpu UHD 630

Memory .. 32GB DDR4

Graphics card .. MSI RTX 2080 ti

Graphics driver .. latest studio

PSU .. Corsair 850i

Mboard .. Asus Z390 Code

 

Laptop… XMG

i9-11900k, iGpu n/a

Memory 64GB DDR4

Graphics card … Laptop RTX 3080

fifonik wrote on 4/28/2020, 6:00 PM

I've found this HW GPU review for streamers recently:

One more time: it is for streamers. Small bitrate required for streaming and encoding must be faster then realtime.

I was a bit surprised that based on the review, HW encoder in some Nvidia GPU (Turing?) overperformed in quality x264 Slow.

Unfortunately, single number (netflix metric) was used for comparison. I'd prefer to see graph instead.

Last changed by fifonik on 4/28/2020, 6:03 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

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Musicvid wrote on 4/28/2020, 6:07 PM

I agree with all of the above caveats. I also am pretty convinced that these cards will not render as efficiently as their more modern counterparts, and try to get their owners to focus on that rather than Vegas as some sort of victimizing force.

Former user wrote on 4/29/2020, 12:01 AM

The following post appeared on Handbrake yesterday. In light of many recent complaints focused on Vegas' performance with these cards, you may want to consider this:

To get usable hevc encoding with Nvidia card you need the Turing NVEnc, this means it has to be a 1650 Super or better (1660/20xx). The non-Super 1650 don't have this, nor do any of the older Nvidia cards like your 1080 and there's currently no AMD cards with what I would consider an usable hevc encoder.
 

I googled that quote. https://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=40055

The Poster is complaining about Handbrake Nvenc HVEC creating much larger files than handbrake x265 with hugely compressible video such as video with many still pictures . That seems to be a handbrake fault as I use FFMPEG Nvenc HEVC at constant quality 24 to backup h264 1080p files and works great. average bitrate can go as low as 2MB/s for video with a lot of low motion and static scenes, up to 7MB/s with constant high movement. It works exactly as I would hope, and this is with a previous generation 10 series Nvidia card.

Only the current Turing Nvenc supports HEVC B Frames, It is said by Nvidia that Turning HEVC has up to 25% more efficiency in file size over previous HEVC so 25% smaller files?

The problem the poster was talking about was the file size being over 400% larger when using Pacal HEVC Nvenc compared to x265. That would seem to be a handbrake fault, and not a fault of NVENC or FFMPEG

bitman wrote on 4/29/2020, 3:04 AM

Something not mentioned is that the turing NVENC (like in a in a RTX 2080 ti) is only one unit, and in single stream encoding it is faster and producing better quality than a 1080ti which has 2 x NVENVC units of a previous generation. That said, even though the new turing NVENC can encode 2 streams simultaneously on the one unit, it is apparantly slower than the 2 NVENC unit's of the 1080ti when dealing with 2 streams to encode which kind of make sense, if you take the analogy of multi-core CPU processing.

Last changed by bitman on 4/29/2020, 3:05 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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