MH7, you don't need a tool you need to test it yourself and understand the range of levels for the profile/settings you use with your camera.

Okay, I see. Well, to be honest I do not at present use any profiles on my Sony camera. I actually have the picture profiles turned off because I just usually like to be able to film and not bother with any HDR or any other picture profiles. So, what my camera shoots by default, I do not know.

In VEGAS Pro, considering I’m using no picture profile at all, it looked like in VEGAS Pro 18, at least on the video scopes, that it films in 0-255 by default. Just from my observation. So, when I set the project properties in VEGAS Pro 18 to 8-bit full range it looks over exposed but, at the same time, washed out. And in the video scopes it kind of looks like there’s some crushing of colour going on (that’s the best way that I can describe it) with the 8-bit full range but on not 8-bit Legacy. I hope all that info helps.

A single Sony camera of mine can shoot 0-255, 16-255 and 16-235 depending on the settings you choose.

Oh, I may have asked this before, but what Sony camera do you have?

Here's a database with min/max levels and an explanation of how to figure it out yourself. https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/survey-what-min-max-levels-does-your-cam-shoot--84677/?page=1

Thank you!

I'd encourage you to avoid profiles where there's a mismatch between the metadata and what you actually shot (i.e. 16-255 but flagged as video range which is 16-235 so you'll lose highlights above 235) or you get to fix this manually on every single clip.

Thanks for that advice.

Picture Profile off (Creative Standard or Neutral) is a valid choice. I forget what range that is as I never use it. If it supports picture profiles you can get extra dynamic range that helps if you do post color correction which is why I shoot Cine gamma.

I have an RX100 IV, a6500 and a6600 and sometimes get clips to work with from other Sony cameras.

To judge it in the scopes you have to use histogram or change to 8-bit video (legacy) in VP 18+. Otherwise it expands the levels for you. Shoot it with the lens cap off and then a light source and let it blow out.

I'd rather not guess what you might be seeing on your screen so just do this test and see for yourself what this camera with this setting shoots. Add MediaInfo which states the color range. Then we can tell you what 8-bit full is doing to it and if intervention is required.

Picture Profile off (Creative Standard or Neutral) is a valid choice. I forget what range that is as I never use it. If it supports picture profiles you can get extra dynamic range that helps if you do post color correction which is why I shoot Cine gamma.

My apologies. I don’t think I clarified all too well. My Sony FDR-AX700 supports picture profiles (here’s a >> link << to the online help guide for my camera that explains them, amongst some other things). However, I currently have it set to off or at least STANDARD as I usually prefer to not have to fix any contrast in VEGAS Pro 18.

I have an RX100 IV, a6500 and a6600 and sometimes get clips to work with from other Sony cameras.

Ah okay. My family has a RX100 VII (7). It has some similar settings to my FDR-RX700 video camera. Quite good.

To judge it in the scopes you have to use histogram or change to 8-bit video (legacy) in VP 18+. Otherwise it expands the levels for you. Shoot it with the lens cap off and then a light source and let it blow out.

Okay. Thanks for that info.

I'd rather not guess what you might be seeing on your screen so just do this test and see for yourself what this camera with this setting shoots. Add MediaInfo which states the color range. Then we can tell you what 8-bit full is doing to it and if intervention is required.

Okay. I may just do that. It would be good to know what my video camera is doing.

I know it supports picture profiles. On my cameras picture profile off = creative style standard. Yours may not have that as it's a camcorder.

Anyway based on your link the picture profiles are identical with recent alpha hybrid cameras. I shoot Cine2 gamma/still color mode and use the Leeming LUT correction LUT.

In general Vegas gets the levels transform right so you don't have to do anything if you're in 8-bit full mode. Only if there's a mismatch between what's actually in the file and the metadata do you have to do anything special.

Lights up, cue @john_dennis stage left.

@MH7 it is important to understand that there is nothing uncommon about the XAVC-S format, these questions are about the camera's shooting levels. They are 16-255 in full daylight; 709 spec is 16-235.

 I don't know of a tool to use to give details on any of my XAVC-S videos recorded with my Sony FDR-AX700 video camera

For looking at Levels, the easiest tool is the Histogram in an 8 bit Legacy Project (important). This will expose your camera's shooting levels.

BTW, here is the free LUT I baked using John Dennis' data and camera samples.

drive.google.com/open?id=10phnBR0LkFiGZcuTJedZi8PJ8W391LIH&authuser=musicvid@gmail.com&usp=drive_fs

I know it supports picture profiles. On my cameras picture profile off = creative style standard. Yours may not have that as it's a camcorder.

Ah okay. I thought you misunderstood what I was saying. No worries. I understand.

Anyway based on your link the picture profiles are identical with recent alpha hybrid cameras. I shoot Cine2 gamma/still color mode and use the Leeming LUT correction LUT.

Ah okay. I will have a look at that link. I have tried filming in some of the other profiles, specifically HLG and it yielded interesting results (I didn’t like it).

Going off topic a bit, something I have been impressed by with this camera, the Sony FDR-AX700, is the great clean (very little noise and no artefacts) low light videos that it has recorded with picture profiles turned off. I came from a Sony DCR-DVD810E SD camera, then directly from my Canon Legria (PAL Version) HF G10 HD FullHD 1080i and so this Sony FDR-AX700 has been a pleasure to use.

How about you with your cameras, do you have any camera purchase history that you came from?

In general Vegas gets the levels transform right so you don't have to do anything if you're in 8-bit full mode. Only if there's a mismatch between what's actually in the file and the metadata do you have to do anything special.

Alright, well that’s good to know. Thank you!

@MH7 it is important to understand that there is nothing uncommon about the XAVC-S format, these questions are about the camera's shooting levels. They are 16-255 in full daylight; 709 spec is 16-235.

Good point. Well, whilst I have not tested my FDR-AX700 camera yet, I did see another user in the list that @RogerS posted who had the previous model, Sony FDR-AX100, and its shooting level was 16-255. So, unless Sony has changed anything re this in the AX700, I would hazard a guess that my AX700 shoots 16-255.

 I don't know of a tool to use to give details on any of my XAVC-S videos recorded with my Sony FDR-AX700 video camera

For looking at Levels, the easiest tool is the Histogram in an 8 bit Legacy Project (important). This will expose your camera's shooting levels.

Okay. Gotcha.

BTW, here is the free LUT I baked using John Dennis' data and camera samples.

drive.google.com/open?id=10phnBR0LkFiGZcuTJedZi8PJ8W391LIH&authuser=musicvid@gmail.com&usp=drive_fs

Thank you!. I will certainly try that out. 👍

For 8-bit, Cine gamma is about as flat as I am comfortable going. I'm not really in the crowd that wants dynamic range at the expense of tonal precision as I prefer my skies and skin tones without noticeable banding. You just can't have it all. For that reason HLG is a little too much for my tastes- it allocates so much of the available data to the highlights. Log isn't acceptable to me. 10-bit is a different story but my cameras are 8-bit only.

For noise I find the a6600/a6500 very good in low light as they must have some kind of in-camera noise reduction. They also downsample from 6K to 4K which also helps average out noise. I came from the Canon DSLR revolution cameras (owned a 600D as it's small but also used 5DMKII, 7D and others for video) and they were way noisier at high ISOs.

Picture profiles with less dynamic range (such as standard) just hide noise by crushing the blacks for you. I prefer to do that if needed in post myself as it's easy to do with a curve.

For 8-bit, Cine gamma is about as flat as I am comfortable going.

I think that I have either tried Cine also or saw a video on YouTube demoing it. I may fiddle with it to see if I like it.

I'm not really in the crowd that wants dynamic range at the expense of tonal precision as I prefer my skies and skin tones without noticeable banding.

Fair enough. I don’t like banding either.

You just can't have it all.

Unfortunately, that’s true.

For that reason HLG is a little too much for my tastes- it allocates so much of the available data to the highlights. Log isn't acceptable to me.

It seems like you’ve definitely done your research and definitely know what you want…which is good.

10-bit is a different story but my cameras are 8-bit only.

On that note, and it may be a silly question, but how do you know if your video is 8-bit or 10-bit?

For noise I find the a6600/a6500 very good in low light as they must have some kind of in-camera noise reduction.

Nice. I guess for the price (guessing they’re quite expensive) that you’d expect decent quality noise control.

They also downsample from 6K to 4K which also helps average out noise.

So, do they film in 6K res quality and output to 4K? If so, that would result in pretty nice image quality, I’d think.

I came from the Canon DSLR revolution cameras (owned a 600D as it's small but also used 5DMKII, 7D and others for video) and they were way noisier at high ISOs.

Ah okay. I currently own a Canon EOS 700D and I believe it films in 1080p @ 25-30fps and is pretty decent quality, from what I remember. I generally try to film at lower ISOs so I don’t think I had much noise in the vid.

Picture profiles with less dynamic range (such as standard) just hide noise by crushing the blacks for you. I prefer to do that if needed in post myself as it's easy to do with a curve.

Well, on that note, I have taken a test video I did, filmed with picture profiles off, took it into VEGAS Pro, decreased the shadows, and was surprised at how low the noise level actually was. You could still see a decent amount of detail in the darker areas. That’s what I was also referring to.