Open a new project. Set the project to "32 bit full range", import your media. Right click on the media in the project media window, select properties. In the media properties, set the color space to HLG. Put the file on the VEGAS timeline and color correct it until it appears pleasing to the eye, render it out. If you want rec709 output specifically, there's an option for that in the color space options in project settings.

The goal with 32 bit ACES is to tell it the input color space of your media by right clicking on it and setting that in the properties menu of the media, then setting your desired output color space in the project settings. The ACES view transform acts like a LUT, it does the conversion for you and makes the video look like it should, so you have a good starting point to grade from.

There's a performance hit for editing in 32 bit mode, though, so best to edit in 8 bit, then switch to 32 when coloring.

Hi thanks for the responses, so to confirm

I set the Pixel format in the project properties to 8-bit (full range)

in the media properties, do i change the color space to rec709?

in this example, it's picked up the color space that it was captured in

The color space doesn't do anything until you are in 32 bit full mode.

In the media properties, you want HLG. This tells VEGAS what color space your media is in. From there, we need to tell the project properties what color space you want to send out, so you set those in project settings, which determines what you see in your preview window, and also in render settings when you go to render the file (customize the render template to access this).

With VEGAS, there's many ways to go about many things... so one other option is to use Musicvid's handy conversion LUTs he's giving away for free. Try the Rec2020 one in 8 bit mode, see how that looks.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/color-profile-luts-for-vegas-new--128046/

In the media properties, you want HLG. This tells VEGAS what color space your media is in. From there, we need to tell the project properties what color space you want to send out, so you set those in project settings, which determines what you see in your preview window, and also in render settings when you go to render the file (customize the render template to access this).

ah. so i think this is what i'm looking for. the project properties are what my output to be (in this case rec709) while the media properties tell vegas what the source colorspace (in this case hlg3) is. so am i correct in assuming that vegas will do the colorspace conversion automatically?

as for luts, i'm using the leeming lut on the clips, so that means it should map the hlg colors to rec 709 colors, while still in the hlg colorspace.

if i understand this correctly, this is what will happen

clip (hlg3 colorspace) -> leeming lut (conforms hlg colors to rec 709 while still in hlg3 colorspace) -> render to rec709 (project is 8-bit full)

Vincent, the colorspace conversion only does anything in ACES (32-bit full) mode.

It would have been helpful if you started saying your goals and workflow. For Leeming LUT you can't use any of this. Stay in 8-bit full (or 32-bit video if you have >8-bit files), apply the LUT and render to Rec709. That's it.

Unlike FinalCut or other software you don't need any fancy workarounds and it's quite accurate (I helped Paul test the beta Sony Pro II LUT).

Vincent, the colorspace conversion only does anything in ACES (32-bit full) mode.

It would have been helpful if you started saying your goals and workflow. For Leeming LUT you can't use any of this. Stay in 8-bit full (or 32-bit video if you have >8-bit files), apply the LUT and render to Rec709. That's it.

Unlike FinalCut or other software you don't need any fancy workarounds and it's quite accurate (I helped Paul test the beta Sony Pro II LUT).

The goal/workflow is that I would like to capture in HLG3 (4K or 1080p / 24p) on the camera and then output to Rec709 (4k/1080p / 24p) for youtube. I guess from watching all the various youtube tutorials, I've gotten myself more and more confused.

So, given that this is my goal, what would be the "correct" workflow in Vegas Pro?

Again, apologies for the newbie type questions

The correct workflow is what I stated in the previous post. Just add a LUT Fx to the media or event and then you can make further changes after the LUT as desired (color curves to increase brightness, etc.) If you need to tweak white balance do it before the LUT. Render normally and it will be Rec 709.

You didn't name a camera but I'm guessing it's not the sIII or you'd be on S-log III, so it's an 8-bit camera. Just stick to project settings of 8-bit full range in Vegas.

Once you said Leeming LUT I understood your goals and intentions as there's only one way to use it.

The correct workflow is what I stated in the previous post. Just add a LUT Fx to the media or event and then you can make further changes after the LUT as desired (color curves to increase brightness, etc.) If you need to tweak white balance do it before the LUT. Render normally and it will be Rec 709.

You didn't name a camera but I'm guessing it's not the sIII or you'd be on S-log III, so it's an 8-bit camera. Just stick to project settings of 8-bit full range in Vegas.

Once you said Leeming LUT I understood your goals and intentions as there's only one way to use it.

I'm on a Sony a6400 that only does 8-bit. So do I actually need to use the Leeming LUT on the input then?

So to confirm, the workflow that I should follow is

Project Settings : 8-bit full range

Media Colorspace : Leave the original color space (ie BT2020)

Media LUT : Do I need to apply the Leeming LUT as the input LUT or just a look LUT?

8 bit completely defeats the purpose of HLG, so do not shoot in that mode if your camera is going to gimp it down to 8 bit.

8 bit completely defeats the purpose of HLG, so do not shoot in that mode if your camera is going to gimp it down to 8 bit.

from all i've read regarding the sony a6400, the hlg colorspace is preferable for shooting due to its ease with color grading, compared to its other log formats. dunno, it might be a weird sony quirk.

8 bit completely defeats the purpose of HLG, so do not shoot in that mode if your camera is going to gimp it down to 8 bit.

from all i've read regarding the sony a6400, the hlg colorspace is preferable for shooting due to its ease with color grading, compared to its other log formats. dunno, it might be a weird sony quirk.

AFAIK, HLG (or HDR for that mater) is not meant for grading at all. It's a delivery format, not acquisition format.

HLG actually grades the poorest out of all HDR formats, and if you're not getting the extra precision of 10 bit, which is the entire point behind HDR, you're defeating the purpose. You're forcing a wider gamut into a smaller bit depth than it was designed for...best to stick to Rec709 in-camera until you get gear that can do real HDR.

 

AFAIK, HLG (or HDR for that mater) is not meant for grading at all. It's a delivery format, not acquisition format.

The best route for HDR grading is to start with a LOG format, like S-Log, C-Log, V-Log, etc... recording in 10 bit, and then grade that to HDR Rec2020 from there, or to Rec709. VEGAS' ACES handles that for you automatically if you configure it right.

HLG actually grades the poorest out of all HDR formats, and if you're not getting the extra precision of 10 bit, which is the entire point behind HDR, you're defeating the purpose. You're forcing a wider gamut into a smaller bit depth than it was designed for...best to stick to Rec709 in-camera until you get gear that can do real HDR.

 

AFAIK, HLG (or HDR for that mater) is not meant for grading at all. It's a delivery format, not acquisition format.

The best route for HDR grading is to start with a LOG format, like S-Log, C-Log, V-Log, etc... recording in 10 bit, and then grade that to HDR Rec2020 from there, or to Rec709. VEGAS' ACES handles that for you automatically if you configure it right.

i think the issue is that the sony a6400 is only 8-bit and so the log formats are problematic when it comes to exposure and grading. this is probably why everything that i've seen regarding this camera (and the older sonys i guess) say to record in hlg since it's easier to grade and expose. i guess i'll experiment with the various profiles and see what happens

The correct workflow is what I stated in the previous post. Just add a LUT Fx to the media or event and then you can make further changes after the LUT as desired (color curves to increase brightness, etc.) If you need to tweak white balance do it before the LUT. Render normally and it will be Rec 709.

You didn't name a camera but I'm guessing it's not the sIII or you'd be on S-log III, so it's an 8-bit camera. Just stick to project settings of 8-bit full range in Vegas.

Once you said Leeming LUT I understood your goals and intentions as there's only one way to use it.

I'm on a Sony a6400 that only does 8-bit. So do I actually need to use the Leeming LUT on the input then?

So to confirm, the workflow that I should follow is

Project Settings : 8-bit full range

Media Colorspace : Leave the original color space (ie BT2020)

Media LUT : Do I need to apply the Leeming LUT as the input LUT or just a look LUT?

 

There is no active color space in 8 bit full, so whatever.

You are using the color grading panel to apply LUTs? Input is better as you don't want to put a LUT before it. If you want addl LUTS after it you can use the LUT Fx.

Sony's implementation of HLG is fine as a starting point for SDR grading if you want a lot of your image data devoted to highlights and don't mind some risk of banding. Personally I use Cine 2, but it will work.

The YouTube crowd got really excited about HLG 3 a year or two ago for some reason and lots of people jumped on the bandwagon. Before that it was Cine 4.

HLG wasn't available on older Sonys, it started with the a6400 generation, so this is a new trend. I have the a6500 which lacks it amd a6600 which has it. For 8 bit, Paul Leeming recommends Cine 2 or standard picture profile. Be wary of YouTube advice.

@vincent-k Heres some easy reading 😂 ... https://www.redsharknews.com/technology-computing/item/2276-inside-the-academy-color-encoding-system-part-one

And some hdr background...

This 1st. item is a really excellent article. Some of the standout comments...

“It was never meant to be used for capture, it was specifically designed for delivery.

”What about grading them? My advice – don’t try to grade HLG footage..”

“HLG is certainly very useful if you plan to directly feed HDR to a TV that supports HLG. But if you plan on creating HDR content that will be viewed on both HLG TV’s and the more common PQ/ST2084 TV’s then HLG is NOT what you want. You would be far – far better off shooting with S-Log and then grading your footage to these two very different HDR standards. If you try to convert HLG to PQ it is not going to look nearly as good as if you start with S-Log.”

“Sure you can shoot with HLG for non HDR applications. You will get some slightly flat looking footage with rolled off highlights. If that’s the image you want then I’m not going to stop you shooting that way. If that’s what you want I suggest you consider the Cinegamma as these capture a similar DR also have a nice highlight roll off (when exposed correctly) and do use the full recording range.

Whatever you do make sure you understand what HLG was designed for. Make sure you understand the post production limitations and above all else understand that it absolutely is not a substitute for S-log.”

https://www.xdcam-user.com/2017/07/what-is-hlg-and-what-is-it-supposed-to-be-used-for/

https://www.cnet.com/news/dolby-vision-hdr10-advanced-hdr-and-hlg-hdr-formats-explained/

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/tips-and-solutions/understanding-hlg-and-instant-hdr-workflows

HLG actually grades the poorest out of all HDR formats, and if you're not getting the extra precision of 10 bit, which is the entire point behind HDR, you're defeating the purpose. You're forcing a wider gamut into a smaller bit depth than it was designed for...best to stick to Rec709 in-camera until you get gear that can do real HDR.

 

AFAIK, HLG (or HDR for that mater) is not meant for grading at all. It's a delivery format, not acquisition format.

The best route for HDR grading is to start with a LOG format, like S-Log, C-Log, V-Log, etc... recording in 10 bit, and then grade that to HDR Rec2020 from there, or to Rec709. VEGAS' ACES handles that for you automatically if you configure it right.

Yup!

That's why I like my raw material to be either RED RAW, ARRI RAW, Canon Cinema RAW, SONY X-OCN or alike, and if not, then properly transcoded to TIFF, DPX, EXR or ProRes 444. The rest is just...boy's toys. :)

We're not talking about HDR or ACES, which aren't compatible with the Leeming LUT technical correction LUT, which is only for SDR at this time. It removes manufacturer looks enabling easy matching between cameras.

I don't think we need to shame users of entry-level cameras, which are good enough for many types of filmmaking (good luck balancing an ARRI or Red on a gimbal- you'll need totally different equipment to stabilize and probably a crew to make the most of it). If you can't make something decent using 8-bit 4K footage, what hope do you have of doing it with a much more complicated camera? We all start somewhere.

How come they always "start somewhere" by using Vegas Pro? They could "start somewhere" by using Windows Movie Maker too.