How to retain VHS smoothness in progressive video

thedanktrain475 wrote on 12/20/2022, 10:30 AM

I'm trying to combine multiple clips from my old Mini DV camcorder into one video. I used the "Capture Video" tool in Vegas Pro 18 to import the footage from the camcorder, and the imported clips look pretty decent. There are no interlacing artifacts and the playback has that smooth VHS look. Here is one of the raw clips: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wCO1EJNOtmZGRfDSFh-H2J6hzS4uppR1/view?usp=share_link

When I render the video to 60i, it still retains that smoothness. But when I upload it to Youtube, It converts the video to 30p and it looks way less smooth than the original. But even when I render to 60p, the output still looks like 30fps.

How do I render these videos in progressive format while keeping the buttery smooth look?

 

Comments

fr0sty wrote on 12/20/2022, 10:36 AM

In project settings:

Adaptive De-interlace on

Progressive scan 60p

Optical flow resample mode

See if that helps when rendering to 60p.

If not, maybe setting the project to 30p, but then rendering in 60p, might engage the optical flow to smooth out the motion. I'm not sure if it will enable when going from 60i to 60p.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Musicvid wrote on 12/20/2022, 11:06 AM

Unfortunately, Smart Adaptive Deinterlace does not BOB the video to 60p by itself. The error in Vegas Help has been reported and was not corrected.

I don't usually bother with 60p, but that's a personal preference. Optical Flow resampling works pretty well. I usually upload Progressive 30p at 1:1 PAR to Youtube.

Upscaling is a separate discussion, but I've had good luck at 720p. [EDIT /] I see you've posted a link; I'll have a look at it. [/]

Musicvid wrote on 12/20/2022, 11:50 AM

Your source is NTSC DV Widescreen. Here are the settings I use.

Going forward, a big factor in smooth motion is the use of a tripod and in-camera stabilization.

juafromspace wrote on 12/20/2022, 2:44 PM

When working with older interlaced footage form VHS oder MiniDV, I deinterlace first with frame doubling (i.e. convert 25i (50 fields/sec) to 50p), and then edit the deinterlaced material. With a good deinterlacer, you get a nice sharp picture and the wonderful smooth motion of the source material.

My favourite deinterlacer is QTGMC which can be used via AviSynth. It's free, but requires some work to set up by hand. An easier (but not free) way to use it is also available via HappyOtterScripts (I don't have experience with it though).

Another good deinterlacer is built into "TMPGEnc Video Mastering Works", but that's another piece of commercial software. But in case you happen to already own that, in my opinion it produces results which are almost as good as QTGMC (that's all IMHO of course...).

In my testing of the Vegas built-in deinterlacing, it has unfortunately not produced good results for me.

Musicvid wrote on 12/20/2022, 4:49 PM

Every bit of evidence I have is that Vegas' Smart Deinterlace is measurably better that any of the software deinterlacers you mention. Lacking some quantitative testing to the contrary, I'll stick by my impressions, thanks.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/some-tests-of-smart-adaptive-deinterlacer--132790/

As for frame doubling (BOB), it is useful with high quality motion originals, but not necessarily DV source, because it adds softness and measurable shadow noise to the output.

Former user wrote on 12/20/2022, 6:27 PM

I tried with Topaz deinterlacer, it does the conversion to 60 fps you want but it is not so good, QTGMC is what you want as suggested by @juafromspace. StaxRip of which QTGMC is an option doesn't like your file, Maybe I need to reinstall, but this is the Topaz 60fields to 60fps conversion.

If anyone wants to do a 60fps from Vegas or QTGMC I"d like to see it. Reminder you must upload to YT or elsewhere, this forum will re-encoded to 30p

GJeffrey wrote on 12/21/2022, 6:45 AM

Attempt with HOS which is using QTGMC under the hood.

That looks better than Topaz on my screen

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Anyx6_WOWn2eg45NgCpyvuRSSDM-Rg?e=dwOajZ

 

Musicvid wrote on 12/21/2022, 7:36 AM

Been here before. Topaz takes fully 5X longer than Vegas on my i5 8750 -- it gives a slight improvement over Vegas with detail in motion where Vegas has a slight edge with static detail and shadow cleanliness. I was not permitted to post my tests here, as they used less than thirty seconds of copyrighted material.

Here are some recent results that puts Vegas' Smart Deinterlace well ahead of the pack:

  • Vegas Smart Adaptive Deinterlace (understandably slow with my Intel graphics)

  • VideoRedo Smart Deinterlace (which I believe is software only)

  • Handbrake Decomb, (one of the best in previous tests)

  • And for the sake of completeness, the venerable EEDI2, which is equally slow, but not better than Vegas Smart Adaptive.

  • Note: you have to set project properties to Progressive for Vegas' Smart Deinterlace to be active).

And for the sake of nostalgia, here are some older tests of software deinterlacers including QTGMC..

 

thedanktrain475 wrote on 12/23/2022, 9:40 AM

In project settings:

Adaptive De-interlace on

Progressive scan 60p

Optical flow resample mode

See if that helps when rendering to 60p.

If not, maybe setting the project to 30p, but then rendering in 60p, might engage the optical flow to smooth out the motion. I'm not sure if it will enable when going from 60i to 60p.

I don't see any option in the program that says optical flow resample, just Force resample ,smart resample, and disable resample. Is this only in Vegas 19 or 20? I'm on 18.

Musicvid wrote on 12/23/2022, 10:30 AM

I don't see any option in the program that says optical flow resample, just Force resample ,smart resample, and disable resample. Is this only in Vegas 19 or 20? I'm on 18.

Yes. Smart Resample is the predecessor to Optical Flow in 19 and 20. Worked pretty well iirc.

That said, it would be really helpful to us if you would give the essential system and settings information in your first topic post -- my bad for not asking for it.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/important-information-required-to-help-you--110457/