Optimal rendering formats

rambo wrote on 12/18/2019, 9:55 PM

I am making home videos for Bluray discs. Normally I would render a Sony AVC file in Vegas Pro 15.0 and it would be in "optimal" format for DVD Architect (build 67) to make a Bluray disc without recompressing.  I just purchased an NVIDIA RTX 2060 to speed up rendering but I find that the only way to take advantage of that is to use the MAGIX AVC/AAC for Nvidia NVENC but the only option is to make an mp4 file which requires recompression in DVD Architect so the time I save rendering in Vegas Pro is offset by the longer Bluray disc creation in DVD Architect.  Is there a better method?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Roger

Comments

Musicvid wrote on 12/18/2019, 10:03 PM

Does your Nvidia have an MPEG-2 or AVCHD rendering option?

Those ore the only two possible for unrecompressed Bluray, and even then...

wwaag wrote on 12/19/2019, 12:51 AM

Is there a better method?

Since you are doing "home videos for Bluray discs", I'd consider trying different authoring software. In particular, I'd suggest trying TMPGEnc's Authoring Works 6. https://tmpgenc.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/taw6.html I believe they still have a 30 day trial. Since I don't do much authoring stuff anymore, I still use their older version 4 when needed. Although I have the latest versions of DVD Architect, I must admit they sit unused--partially because of their need to re-render for situations such as yours, but also because of its intractable (IMHO) user interface. Just a suggestion.

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

Musicvid wrote on 12/19/2019, 3:19 AM

I don't recall seeing a hardware encoding scheme that claimed to output compliant AVCHD or HDV. Those are what the BluRay spec is written for.

Your saving grace might be in the mpeg-2 software encoder DVDA templates, though. It is plenty fast, as our Vegas proxies are built with it using a parallel format (XDCAM). If you want fast renders with BD compliance, that's probably going to be the best you get.

TMPEG is fine authoring software, and some choose it over Architect. But as far as turning hardware output into BD-ready assets, it still must transcode.

rambo wrote on 12/19/2019, 11:39 AM

Thanks Musicvid and wwaag for your quick and helpful responses.

I'm not sure where i would look to see if Nvidia has an MPEG-2 or AVCHD rendering option but that certainly makes sense and i will explore that.

I did experiment with mpeg-2 rendering and you are correct it was a little faster than Sony avc (but not as fast as the mp4 w/Nvidia)

The TMPEG looks pretty interesting judging by their website but i understand it would still need to recompress mp4 files.

Many Bluray players can read other format types as "data" rather than an authored Bluray disc. I may try just copying an mp4 to Bluray disc and see if a Bluray player can play it. If not, and i need to stay with mpeg-2 or avc i may just return the Nvidia card and just use the Intel 630 graphics built into my processor as i had been

Thanks again,

Roger

j-v wrote on 12/19/2019, 12:17 PM

I'm not sure where i would look to see if Nvidia has an MPEG-2 or AVCHD rendering option but that certainly makes sense and i will explore that.

You will not find an option.
Biggest reason is that you must, for the type of render you want, use very old codecs and rendertemplates.

I did experiment with mpeg-2 rendering and you are correct it was a little faster than Sony avc (but not as fast as the mp4 w/Nvidia)

This is the only one that can use a little bit GPU if available and that little is with the old and sometimes faulty CUDA that is not anymore present at newer Videocards for helping this kind of rendering.

So as long as you render to Blu Ray it is not possible to use your new video card. There was in VPro 15 already the option to render with the Magix codec and with me and the videocard from signature it renders with that NVENC option of Nvidia a 1 minute FHD 50 p files till such a default rendertemplate in 35 second, that's is almost 0,5 x realtime.
 

 

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 24H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
566.14 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 576.02 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Vegas software: VP 10 to 22 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

Musicvid wrote on 12/20/2019, 5:24 AM

It's literally technologies from two generations looking for a common element -- I'm afraid the BluRay specs are pretty rigid.

As you suggested, an mp4 with chapters on a data disc may have to suffice, although you can't have menus. However, the "speed" advantage you are looking for only comes into play once per project, even when you are making a lot of discs.

Also, I'm sure you know that hardware encoding is not a quality-mediated choice. I find myself using mpeg-2 and x264 software codecs a lot lately. They really do play nicely with the newer generations of CPUs.

rambo wrote on 12/20/2019, 11:37 AM

I am going to experiment with mp4 over the weekend.  I started to create a Bluray data disk using CDBurnerXP by adding a 9gb mp4 file and it gave me a 4gb max error so need to find away around that or do I need to keep each video file to <4g?

Musicvid wrote on 12/20/2019, 1:02 PM

Start by encoding your file in Handbrake at RF22. That will reduce size.

Or use NTFS drives. They have no such limit. I don't know why your program seems to, but burning from Windows shouldn't be a problem.

james-ollick wrote on 12/20/2019, 5:50 PM

I am going to experiment with mp4 over the weekend.  I started to create a Bluray data disk using CDBurnerXP by adding a 9gb mp4 file and it gave me a 4gb max error so need to find away around that or do I need to keep each video file to <4g?

The software telling you you need to keep each video under 4 gigs sounds like DVD, not Blu-Ray.

Make sure you have 2 things.

Blu-Ray disks, not DVD disks. I use BD-R

A burner capable of burning Blu-Ray disks.

 

Home built PC - Corsair case, ASUS ROG Maximus XI Code motherboard, i9 9900k, 64GB Corsair Vengeance RGB DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz,  Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX 7900 XTX 24GB graphics card, Corsair 1000 watt power supply. Windows 11.

VP 21 BCC 2024 Boris FX Continuum Complete, Titler Pro v7. Various NewBlue effects.

fr0sty wrote on 12/20/2019, 7:33 PM

Unfortunately, NVENC cannot produce blu-ray compliant files, so DVDA will force a re-encode no matter what if you use GPU rendering.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

rambo wrote on 12/21/2019, 11:04 AM

I am going to experiment with mp4 over the weekend.  I started to create a Bluray data disk using CDBurnerXP by adding a 9gb mp4 file and it gave me a 4gb max error so need to find away around that or do I need to keep each video file to <4g?

The software telling you you need to keep each video under 4 gigs sounds like DVD, not Blu-Ray.

Make sure you have 2 things.

Blu-Ray disks, not DVD disks. I use BD-R

A burner capable of burning Blu-Ray disks.

 

Turned out the disc format was set to ISO 9660/Joliet instead of UDF. Works fine now. I also tried burning from

Windows and that worked fine too.

Thanks Musicvid, and James-ollick

fr0sty, yes, that seems to be the bottom line (NVENC cannot produce blu-ray compliant files.)

Musicvid mentioned using chapters as an alternative to Bluray menus. I've never used that functionality before.

I am going to try that.

This forum has been a great experience. You all are very helpful.

Roger

.

frmax wrote on 12/21/2019, 2:04 PM

@fr0sty  "Unfortunately, NVENC cannot produce blu-ray compliant files"

Haven't burned blu rays with Vegas yet.
Could you explain the disadvantages of NVENC a little more? Is it generally NVENC or just the specific implementation in Vegas?

I9900K, RTX 2080, 32GB RAM, 512Mb M2, 1TB SSD, VEGAS Pro 14-20 (Post), Magix ProX, HitfilmPro
AMD 5900, RTX 3090 TI, 64GB RAM, 1 TB M2 SSD, 4 TB HD, VP 21 Post, VP22

Monitor LG 32UN880; Camera Sony FDR-AX53; Photo Canon EOS, Samsung S22 Ultra

j-v wrote on 12/21/2019, 2:24 PM

In short.
NVENcC is a pretty new option and Blueray is old, with older codecs, and thatswhy Nvidia renderhelp is not capable to work with those older codecs.

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 24H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
566.14 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 576.02 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Vegas software: VP 10 to 22 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

Musicvid wrote on 12/22/2019, 12:22 AM

I have MPEG-2 on my Intel quicksync, it could possibly be smart-rendered to work with DVDA if it weren't so crappy, that is.