Pan/Crop jumping (Issue)

Icebear wrote on 3/27/2017, 6:10 AM

Currently on a trial of Vegas PRO 14 (Build 211) 64-bit, and over the past few weeks, I've run into the problem where still images that I Pan/Crop jump around when moving them, making them unable to be in certain positions.

A bit of testing, revealed that this only happens when the images are Pre-FX'd (in this case, it's Chroma Keyer -> Pure Green Screen)

Example of issue:

https://i.gyazo.com/530d2100c1ca6df78d3ddd7476d059ac.mp4

About the video: I use the arrow keys to move the still image around one pixel at a time (left side), but at certain points it makes massive jumps (right side).

 

Is there any way fix to this, other than not pre-FXing the images (since every image is used 10+ times)?

Comments

Cornico wrote on 3/27/2017, 6:42 AM

In can't see it on your example, but is your sync cursor button on or off at the left bottom of the Pan/Crop window?

Icebear wrote on 3/27/2017, 6:48 AM

Sync Cursor is on.

The issue is on the preview part on the far right (not in the Video Event FX window), where the picture makes big jumps, despite me only moving it 1 pixel in the Pan/Crop window (with the arrow keys)

dxdy wrote on 3/27/2017, 10:45 AM

I think the jump you are seeing is Vegas attempting to interpolate between two keyframe markers. I would try zooming in on the pan/crop window (use the scroll wheel on your mouse) so you have higher resolution control. I suspect that one push of the arrow key is moving you pretty far. Once you are zoomed in, there will be smaller moves with each arrow key press.

TheHappyFriar wrote on 3/27/2017, 10:49 AM

Do you have any other kind of FX before/after the pan/crop? Maybe on the track level? That is wierd. If you let go of the mouse does it snap back?

The couple times I've had video related issues with Vegas (not render) my GPU drivers were at fault.

Marco. wrote on 3/27/2017, 10:53 AM

Or it may be due to your preview quality settings which should be "Best/Full" for precise Pan/Crop adjustments.

Musicvid wrote on 3/27/2017, 2:18 PM

Expose the keyframes timeline and delete the ones that were added inadvertently.

TheHappyFriar wrote on 3/27/2017, 9:30 PM

That's what I thought initially but it doesn't look like he's moving in time at all, just moving around the pan/crop area, all on one frame. I guess there could be a KF somewhere that's being interpolated. I remember in Vegas 10 there was an invisible KF bug that would happen if you use the Sync Cursor option. KF's would exist on the TL's but would st

Musicvid wrote on 3/27/2017, 9:54 PM

Depending on the keyframes state, points are added every time you click a point on the timeline.

It's a biggie.....

Icebear wrote on 3/28/2017, 4:12 AM

I think the jump you are seeing is Vegas attempting to interpolate between two keyframe markers. I would try zooming in on the pan/crop window (use the scroll wheel on your mouse) so you have higher resolution control. I suspect that one push of the arrow key is moving you pretty far. Once you are zoomed in, there will be smaller moves with each arrow key press.

https://i.gyazo.com/293b6074ed5adf1a67040c6a731d95e2.png
https://i.gyazo.com/8c4aa91bf18c46610b1914522a7a7608.png
The X and Y Centers have a 0.2 difference, yet have made a massive difference. It moves fine before, and after, X:768 Y:128

Do you have any other kind of FX before/after the pan/crop? Maybe on the track level? That is wierd. If you let go of the mouse does it snap back?

The couple times I've had video related issues with Vegas (not render) my GPU drivers were at fault.


No other FXs. Adding more FXs to the individual clips on the timeline changes nothing. Nothing on tracks. Didn't use the mouse at all, but it has the same behaviour.
GPU Drivers are up to date (MSI GeForce 750ti). This issue affects the render as well.

Or it may be due to your preview quality settings which should be "Best/Full" for precise Pan/Crop adjustments.


Set the preview to Best/Full, no change

Expose the keyframes timeline and delete the ones that were added inadvertently.


I'm not moving in the timeline at all, only the Pan/Crop area itself
https://i.gyazo.com/f0f13deae3b81992f6929814f6ec05ef.mp4 (not sure why it downsized it, but again only moving it with the arrow keys).

 

I tested with some other effects, put onto the files themselves in the Project Media.
Glow makes the image disappear completely if moved in Pan/Crop at all
Levels gives same effect Chroma Keyer
Light Rays does not cause the image to jump, but when crossing near the same section, the light rays themselves change quite a lot (no settings/timeline touched)

 

Marco. wrote on 3/28/2017, 4:17 AM

Then try disabling GPU boost in "Options/Preferences/Video".

Icebear wrote on 3/28/2017, 4:25 AM

Then try disabling GPU boost in "Options/Preferences/Video".


Which one?

 

Also a test render I did with the issue

Marco. wrote on 3/28/2017, 4:28 AM

"Which one?"

GPU acceleration of video processing

Icebear wrote on 3/28/2017, 4:46 AM

It does remove the jumping, however it also completely breaks the preview https://gyazo.com/ad9274f4d69a19bb02770f291e6ccbc3

It makes Preview unusable, and instead of jumping, the effect constantly turns on and off when moved around. End result was a crash of Sony Vegas when it was moved too fast (probably lack of render power)

Marco. wrote on 3/28/2017, 4:57 AM

There seems to be two issues. One maybe is with your grafic device driver. The other one maybe is a decoding issue due to the source media you use.

In addition to disabling GPU boost I would also consider transcoding your source media to a different video format before importing into Vegas Pro.

Icebear wrote on 3/28/2017, 5:14 AM

GPU driver is up to date (actually just noticed I'm 1 version behind, released a week ago - updating didn't change anything).
As for the source media. They're all .png files. The koala that I tested with as well, is a .jpg, one that comes with Windows7 by default in the Picture Examples

 

EDIT: I actually just noticed, that it only happens with the pictures (.png / .jpg). My single .avi file is not affected when pre-FX'd.
Still kinda bad for me though, as I have 36 PNGs and 1 AVI

Marco. wrote on 3/28/2017, 5:17 AM

Unfortunately in Vegas Pro updated drivers don't garuantee doing no harm when GPU boost is used.

But it's really strange these artifacts appearing when using PNG and JPEG only.

Any chance to share such a project file (including it's PNG/JPEG file) for download (e.g. via Dropbox)?

Marco. wrote on 3/28/2017, 5:34 AM

Thanks for the files.

I would have expected the Fraps AVI to cause the problems, not the PNG/JPEG files. There are tons of issues reported when using Fraps video in Vegas Pro. Strange.

On my system it seems to work fine, except I can't import the Fraps video because I don't have the decoder installed. Is there a certain timecode in the timeline where the issues appear?

I also see you use "Upper Field First" for your project field order. I think it's be better to use "None (Progressive Scan)" instead as it is unlikely there is interlaced footage in your project.

Icebear wrote on 3/28/2017, 5:41 AM

Nope, happens at any time, on any pre-FX'd image.

Where the issue is visible in the project itself due to animations, is at 0:27-0:41 (at least on my end), otherwise the issue is simply when I try to move it around in Pan/Crop to position the images.

Marco. wrote on 3/28/2017, 6:01 AM

Yes, e.g. there is a jump at frame 00:29:17 (to the next frame) which I can see here, too. Also, if I bypass FX the issue does not appear.

It all seem to caused by the Chroma Key FX you used as Media FX. Turning the Chroma Key FX on and off makes your object jumping. Very strange. I've never seen that before.

Investigating …

Cornico wrote on 3/28/2017, 6:15 AM

I think its a combination of Chroma Key as Media FX and Pan Crop settings of the event.
If I remove only the pan/crop the jump is gone or if I remove only the Media FX also the jump is gone. Do you have a reason to use as well the event FX Chroma Key and the same FX also as Media FX?

Icebear wrote on 3/28/2017, 6:26 AM

The issue only occurs when applying a Media FX directly to the file in the Project Media browser. If I add Chroma Keyer to each clip in the timeline, then they work just fine (which I'd rather avoid).
The reason I apply the Media FX to the file, is because I use each file multiple times, so to save time I applied it to the file, instead of every single clip (which is quite a few, for the same effect on all of them).

As I mentioned in a post further up, it is not limited to Chroma Keyer.

  • Glow makes the image disappear completely if moved just a bit
  • Levels gives same jumping effect as Chroma Keyer
  • Light Rays does not cause the image to jump, but when crossing near the same section, the light rays themselves change quite a lot (no ray settings/timeline touched)

Probably affects more, and more with different errors, but those were the extra 3 I tested

Marco. wrote on 3/28/2017, 6:29 AM

I made several tests now by replacing your PNG and by replacing the Chroma Key FX against other Media FX.

Right as you said - this issue only appears when using a Media FX onto grafic files (combined with Pan/Crop). I rendered the grafic file used at 00:29:17 to an MP4 file and the issue is gone.

It must be a bug within the Media FX. I will try to isolate this issue for a better demo and forward to Magix. Though in your certain case I have no idea how to solve this one for now.

Maybe there's a way to define the green background as alpha channel within a grafic software. Then saving the files as PNG including the alpha channel should help.

Cornico wrote on 3/28/2017, 6:32 AM

My question was why you executed the Chroma Key twice on the same footage, one time as event FX and one time as Media FX.

Removing it as Media FX gives you the same picture outcome without the jump.