video or audio?

Video: RED shot in 4k mode, slight grain added for the film of it. The RED didn't seem as sharp as I was expecting, not sure why - wasn't my camera

Audio: was just a spare office with no HVAC control. for time constraints, I cancelled using external mic thinking the on camera would work fine. My bad. Added layer of doctor office Ambience sound (too loud?) to cover over how noisey the dialog clips are.

All creators have guts, you've got more to ask for honest feedback.

My observations, and some is very subjective:

Bad location, can't fix that ugly wall, it looks like a green screen, too stark a contrasting color, especially against the maroon shirt which is most of the sequence...draws attention too itself, in a short, you want to not introduce distractions.

Fan noise would be problematic even with great audio tools, it could be done, but start with choosing a better location. Ambient noise, generally, doesn't bother me, and can add to a scene, as you'd know already, but a high pitched constant noise is irritating and just a "no." Shotgun mic might mitigate that in the future.

Interesting concept. The special effects are decently executed here. The pregnant girl is a decent actor here, the rest are also pretty good, but I don't like gum chewing. I think you can establish nervous anxiety without gum, but again, very subjective on my part.

The biggest amateurish bit is the newscast script. "Mr. Ron Atkins" is not typical parlance. I think it would sound more like, "police are telling us that the driver of that vehicle was Ronald Atkins of Westminster," That whole bit just fell flat because inauthentic.

I think you do anything you can do to make this less "video" and more cinema. Start with a warm filter or LUT perhaps. You can/should be able to get a good look for this type of short with what you have. Your outdoor establishment shot is great, but I will guess that is stock footage?

So, if was me, and I could not reshoot, I would try some sort of color tweak or replacement on the wall, and work for cinematic vibe. Sound Forge might provide some help on the fan noise.



 

thank you so much zdogg for your feedback! And I do agree 100%. When we saw the green wall, we were like "....ugh" oh well. No budget and all that :)

I hate hate hated the set that I "designed". $10 on table props, couple signs on wall, really really pathetic. But, the experience was great for the actors to play and practice. They really enjoyed doing this.

I'll check in on Sound Forge... didn't know it had cleaners.

Comments from others? Please feel free to be hard on it. It's how we grow! :) I can totally take. Believe me, I could write two pages of critique on my own project, but good to hear what others SEE.

The audio wasn't as bad as I was expecting based on your description... The actor on the right, red shirt, is overacting. Tell him to be a little more relaxed about it next time. Some of the timing of the lines doesn't feel right either, not quite like the flow of a normal conversation. The "I don't remember" (paraphrasing) line stuck out as a bit out of place, as if she said it too soon. You want to give the feel that these people are hearing the words and reacting to them, taking a split second to process what they were told and then responding. If the actor says the line too soon, it jumps ahead of that process and doesn't come across as natural.

The first disappearing special effect worked, the second looked odd because the actor falls down at the end, so it doesn't give the appearance that he is actually disappearing, but rather being killed by light from above or something. A bright flash followed by the same scene, but with him missing, should be how it ended.

As stated above, some color work will change the feel a lot. you can easily change that wall's color in post, maybe even add a pattern or something to make it look less bland, if you want to get all fancy with motion tracking and such.

Thank you frosty for taking the time to provide this valuable feedback! The actors on the left were first timers, and the girl was problematic, BUT, as director I take full blame for that. :) I had to adjust all the dialog timing in editing. I guess I could have slow the pace for a second before she reacted - cutting away to the other people would have orphaned that line, I feel. This project was a lot of fun, and great for learning and growing. As is this feedback.

Filmed a second one that night, its a pinch more exciting than this one, I'm applying what I learned to the edit. :)

Nice. It did engage me, so the rest is secondary: seems like a lot of video noise (especially noticeable on wall) that is somewhat distracting & the wall is just too plain. Background audio seems too loud & reverberant, and for me somewhat spoils the Hospital illusion. Thanks for sharing!

The audio wasn't as bad as I was expecting based on your description... The actor on the right, red shirt, is overacting.

@fr0sty Agreed. However, the whole “suspension of reality” vector needs to have a more active part to play. The Audio needs more shaping to assist the final outcome/denouement. It’s not just the reverb quality, which I like as part of what follows. The Audio is going to be your friend here.

Tell him to be a little more relaxed about it next time.

Again, the audio needs to be shaped. This is a tight timescale piece, and there needs to be a heightening, a more urgently growing sense of edginess and disquiet. The actors can’t be responsible for all that develops.

Some of the timing of the lines doesn't feel right either, not quite like the flow of a normal conversation. The "I don't remember" (paraphrasing) line stuck out as a bit out of place, as if she said it too soon.

This should all be out of place leading to the outcome......

You want to give the feel that these people are hearing the words and reacting to them, taking a split second to process what they were told and then responding.

No. The Director has the Task of balancing reality against the impending “Payoff”. And what is the Payoff? Read on.... wink

If the actor says the line too soon, it jumps ahead of that process and doesn't come across as natural.

None of this natural! But I agree that the acting needs to reflect this better

The first disappearing special effect worked, the second looked odd because the actor falls down at the end, so it doesn't give the appearance that he is actually disappearing, but rather being killed by light from above or something. A bright flash followed by the same scene, but with him missing, should be how it ended.

And that, right there, is the Morality Play! The Payoff: The Good go to Heaven Up and Blue and the Bad go to the other place.... downwards and RED!

As stated above, some color work will change the feel a lot. you can easily change that wall's color in post, maybe even add a pattern or something to make it look less bland, if you want to get all fancy with motion tracking and such.

@wwjd: This is a great project. The Audio shaping? I’d like to post to you some ideas if you wish.

I like the concept very much. Kudos for telling an entire, meaningful story in under 3 minutes.

Audio is often the problem with zero-budget projects. Sound Forge with noise reduction tools is a very, very good tool, and as vital as VEGAS Pro for such projects. Capture some "silence" before each take, and you'll find that the noise reduction routines can capture a "noiseprint" from that, and greatly reduce it in the part you actually use.

The actors' actions and reactions seemed so odd for their situation; when I realized what you were actually communicating, I forgave all of that as a deliberate choice to show they were not actually in the situation the visuals suggested. Even so, the husband's choices on tone of delivery were questionable.

If the wife had been given something to do during the others' discussion, it would have added much, I think. She's obviously very beautiful, and if she's capable of acting a range of emotions, it would have been good to give her that chance.

The switching between the same two perspectives on the actors was too repetitive. Finding some way to mix those shots up would be helpful. You can trade resolution for "zoom" if needed, and if the final output is only 1080p.

I loved the establishing shot.

Mainly: Congratulations, thank you for sharing your project with us, and I hope it was fun to make!

@IAM4UK Yes 😃

Kinvermark, thanks for taking the time to watch and reply. I am very glad it engaged you. That's my favorite part of story telling - can I hook them? - and unsure if a two minute practice project worked well. No excuses, the background was too loud. But I can still hear the damaged dialog :)

Grazie, thank you too for watching and commenting. This stuff is great to hear and learn from... seeing and hearing from OTHER PEOPLE'S eyes and ears! SUPER feedback. I did struggle with the timing over and over again. Mostly, because I failed to extract the performances I wanted from the actors - totally my fault for not explaining and pushing them. The left guy was to be confused but comforting, then he sort of figures it out, and breaks down crying "We're gonna be fine" (missed making that work), and then accepting, and comforting her. A lot for 2 minutes, kinda worked in the script, not so much here. I would welcome much thoughts on the AUDIO. Basically, I had dialog, loud and soft with a background fan at like 25db, so it run underneath ALL the words, as a WOOOSH. I cut the low end, that helped, cut each word or phrase and faded them in and out to sound best with the woosh, compressed and EQ'd. Was a fun challenge and is listenable, but I should have used a noise reduction thing. I'll attach a tiny audio clip if you want to play.

IAM4UK, thanks for watching and commenting. It was a blast to setup and execute even with limited time and resources. Even a "bad" project like this, it is great hearing how things can be improved EVEN on something like this. The husband on the right was interesting... this was written/designed to be play/practice for the actors, and he said, "can I try my New York accent?" I said sure, and off he went. I'd pictured a more gruff, criminal guy, dirtier, less caring, BUT this was for them, so I encouraged their ideas. He has a high voice and perhaps wasn't the best cast choice (there were no actual choices really). But he nailed, the "Felt like I was impaled" part. Great feedback though.

I had the wife doing a little more while ignoring everyone who wasn't there, but somehow, those actions fell away for a vacant stare. Again, first time directing others, I wasn't paying attention to her. I told her to kind of mindlessly glance around the room like no one else was there, but that turned into a solid stare. Her ending was great, and the next micro short she really kills the ending. Can't wait to finish it!

This FEEDBACK FROM PEERS is an excellent thing, and something I am trying to push locals to do: tear our films down more to make them better, but everyone is afraid to hurt feelings. I get that, but it is SOOO needed. Just to let you all know I really appreciate you all watching and taking time to provide experienced feedback. I'm happy to return the favor sometime. :)

  of course now it doesn't sound as bad to me! but overall, felt very hard to work with

https://www.dropbox.com/s/az7xw1vlarz5xu3/dialog.mp3?dl=0

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This FEEDBACK FROM PEERS is an excellent thing, and something I am trying to push locals to do: tear our films down more to make them better, but everyone is afraid to hurt feelings. I get that, but it is SOOO needed. Just to let you all know I really appreciate you all watching and taking time to provide experienced feedback. I'm happy to return the favor sometime. :)

@wwjd that is a very gracious offer. I welcome any feedback on this 48 Hour Film Project I made last year, especially as I'm planning to make another this August. The way the 48 Hour Film Project works: you draw 2 genres (of a possible 30 genres) randomly; you're told certain requirements like a line of dialog and a prop that must appear onscreen; you've got 48 hours to write, shoot, and edit a short (4-7 minutes plus credits) movie. It's crazy, but fun.
Last August, my team drew "Horror" and "Fantasy." We chose to make a Fantasy movie featuring a muse (or 3 muses, or no muse but an angel... you can decide for yourself) inspiring a musician, a writer, and a painter. Everything -- including the painting, the playing of the song, and the recording of the performance of the song in the end credits -- was done in 48 hours, with no script until we crafted one during that time. About 15 scenes, 9 locations, and 8 costumes for the leading lady (who's now in L.A. pursuing acting). A common question is: did the musician actually play that piece? Yes, he did, without a note of music in front of him. He's soon headed to Austria to hone his piano-playing skills for about 6 months.
All volunteers, zero budget, and almost no time. I watched them do what they did, and I still cannot believe it. It seemed like a miracle to me. Therefore, I truly encourage as critical feedback as anyone is willing to give. Tell me how I can improve, because I really want to improve. I am 100% amateur, but aspire to do my best.
https://vimeo.com/realprod48/museedit

I'm familiar with 48 hrs, and although it is beloved around here, I loath it. Why? Because it forces you to make something not very good by rushing it... kinda like I did with mine except my edit took a WEEK! :D I did two 48s, we won AUDIENCE CHOICE both times, a some runner up awards, and I have not been back. It is cool to gather filmmakers together and force a fast turn around product out of ya, but what about the other 52 weeks a year? :D That's where these tiny shorts I am doing, fill in. Working to setup a MONTHLY shoot with anyone interested in my local area. Also, EVERYONE who participated recognized that in order to achieve highest possible quality more time, and less short cuts have to be taken. Exact opposite of 48 hrs. :D

I'll check out your short and provide much feedback, tonight or tomorrow. I consider myself amateur filmmaker also, but have watched a ton of movies, TV and shorts, and kinda know what sells.... IF that is your intent.

Although selling my short movies is not my intent, I do seek to improve my videography, sound capture, editing, and especially story-telling. So I look forward to all feedback I might get. Thank you!

Just a couple of suggestions.

1. Between the aerial shot and the first interior shot, I would like to have seen another shot more closely establishing the exact location, an Emergency Room I'm assuming. It could be a simple static shot.

2. For the parts where the acting seems overdone or too much explaining, you should cut to a reaction shot of the other actor. For instance, around 1:14 mark when the guy is saying must have hit his head or that girl is saying "But I don't remember," you cut to the reaction to the other guy versus holding on that guy explaining everything that happened. I think a reaction to what he is saying is better than watching him explain all that part.

3. I think you should reconsider the music. I think the piano music shouldn't be playing so consistently, and only come in perhaps closer to the end when the realizations are about to occur. By keeping the music kind of playing in the background, you get desensitized to it and it doesn't have all the emotional amplification it should have when it needs to have it.

4. On the last shot of the girl, I think the shot should either hold on her or push in slightly, not pull out.

5. For the last shot, I would like to have seen a simple fade out and not simply a pulling away shot of the aerial shot, which looks great, but we've already seen. I don't think showing that again adds anything.

Thanks for sharing your work. I know everyone's a critic nowadays.

@karma17 - Totally agree!

Karma17, excellent feedback, I thank you much for watching and supplying your thoughts. Great stuff! I have zero excuses, but there was no budget and I couldn't find good FREE shots of an emergency room entrance. I did look and that was my preferred idea. I suspect it is a matter of copyright on single buildings or something.

Honestly, I hate the music. Whole thing sounds like a SOAP OPERA in my head now. :D BUT, it was my choice and I used it while writing it, so it seemed to fit. I get what you are saying though. Too much. Was also using it to distract from the crappy sound. :)

I like push in shots a lot. Was going for a walk away, left alone, big lonely world feel. Didn't work I guess. :) Push in, defocus, fade out would have been cool.

I DO LOVE hearing your input, and everyones! We can all learn and grow seeing different perspectives.

IAM4UK.... not sure if I can offer much on your work, but will give it a shot.

First up, BRAVO! For a 48hour, this had TONS of amazing stuff in it. Locations, color, lighting, story, sound, music, really well put together for a 48hr. Standouts to me were to music, and quality of MOST of the camera shots.

Not sure if you want me to shred on the technical side or not? There were a few badly out of focus shots (48hour!) that I am sure you know of, some blown out shots that could be claimed as artistic choice but might have benefited from better lighting or color grading. A few camera jiggles on some shots (darn you 48 hours!), and although the shots mostly looked great, I felt an inconsistancy to their connectedness sometimes. Might just be me though.

There's a bit of "indie face" (Darn you 48 hours!) that some actors have on, where a better expression would fit. There's a bunch in mine too that I didn't catch. It's a stoic, default face we all see in indie films - much like how Ryan Gosling looks in EVERYTHING.

Storywise, I love a good muse theme! Since we all want that for our creative endeavors. So I enjoyed the concept and story here. Any ideas I have about that, would just be me rewritting and not related to YOUR project's goal. :)

Some times felt long to me, as a commoner viewer, although I could definitely appreciate the ART side of that. Like showing the painting being made. I wanted to not see as much of that and get to the muse infected end result quicker.

One last thing, moving camera shots. To me anymore, it is hard to watch static on sticks shots. Seems like all the top budgets have movement of somekind. Even a slight slide side ways helps. I saw a few done in post, and that helps a lot. And I noticed the changing aspect ratios... bet that was fun, but it was distracting to me. Maybe non-filmmakers don't notice as much or just except it. Me, I was like "wait, what?" and rewinded to see what happened. :D

Still overall, REALLY GREAT for a 48 hours project. Having been there, I know what a great effort was put in and I hope I am not diminishing that in any way. Good job! I'll be checking your vimeo out to see stuff you did that WASN'T under such a time crunch! :D

On static shots, something I call the Simon principle, I would rather see a well-composed static shot with thoughtful in-frame movement than a moving shot that makes no sense. If you look at this ad, the camera never moves until the last shot, which is technically a locked shot but on a moving car. I do agree subtle camera movement is generally harmless, but what I see more is the camera moving when it really serves no story purpose at all. For instance, I see lots of wedding videos that have slider shots going this way and that, and the only reason is the video guy has a slider. And sometimes, the movement actually contradicts the story. My rule is to move the camera when it makes sense or adds to the story, but not to move it just to be moving it.

@wwjd Thank you so much for your meaningful and beneficial feedback!
"Indie face" -- that's a fun term I hadn't heard, but I get it. (Although I like Gosling, in Blade Runner 2049, for example...)
The blown out shots were not an artistic choice; they were mistakes. We actually had a professional lighting expert, and she did a great job (as seen in a couple of shots I didn't mess up). But I spent no time reviewing shots on-set (rushing off to the next location...), and so my mistakes with things like aperture were unfortunately baked into the mix. Every year I tell myself to pace myself better on these 48HFP, and give time for in-place review, but you know how it ends up going...
Thank you for the pacing/length comments. The overall length was of course limited by 48HFP rules, but driven within that space primarily by the Liszt piece our pianist played. I didn't want to chop much of that, and had WAY too much overall footage for the allotted time, anyway. I'm especially thankful for the note on the painting. I set up a Panasonic GH4 to take 840 stills of the canvas as the painter spent 2.5 hours painting the Portrait of the Muse. I confess, I was so enamored with the time-lapse, having never seen anything like that in a 48HFP, I didn't seriously consider it was too much to include almost the entire thing (even split into 3 segments). Thank you for pointing out what I did not objectively see.
Regarding motion: Thanks for that note. I have struggled with that every time I have tried one of these. I did add one cool bit of motion that I was pleased with: for the flashback of the widow sending her husband off on a train to deploy to Vietnam, we got that shot by having the cinematographer in a wheelchair. Trade-off: it was a bit shaky... (On the other hand, since that and the other flashbacks were supposed to have been shot on an 8mm film home movie camera in 1968, the shakiness is natural.)
Regarding the Aspect Ratios: those were used as storytelling aids. This project ended up being just way too complex (but I loved that about it), and I understood it would be asking too much of the audience to follow the mostly-wordless narratives without some visual clues. I thought about changing color palettes radically, but that would have been too time-consuming, and I doubt I have the skills required for that. So, I chose varying aspect ratios. Here's how they were used for the various elements of the stories:
Musician: (2017) AR 1.78:1 (intended to make it 2.00:1, Oops!)
Artist: (2017) AR 1.66:1
Writer: (1970?) AR 1.78:1
Writer's story about the widow: (1969) AR 2.39:1
Flashbacks in the writer's story, shown as if 8mm home movies: (1968) AR 1.33.1
Bookends: (Eternal) AR 1.78:1 (but, being lit by only a candle, that one could be any AR)

My rule is to move the camera when it makes sense or adds to the story, but not to move it just to be moving it.

 

You went to the John Ford school of film-making! 👍

Now this sounds like a discussion. Comments well taken, but disappointing that only one contributor bothered to post a counterexample.