Problem in synching files for multicam editing

ernie-tamminga wrote on 12/3/2018, 8:50 AM

I just upgraded to Vegas Pro 16 from Pro 13. I used to use PluralEyes for synching my multicam projects, but the version of PluralEyes that I have doesn't show up in the new Vegas (and it would be too expensive to buy the latest PluralEyes).

I'm trying to follow the Help info in Vegas for synching for multicam. I did all the steps 1 through 4 in the Help topic "Laying out clips using timecode or data/time stamps" [I think that's a typo in the title... should probably be "date/time stamps"]

In step 5, I have selected my clips, and I choose the second option -- "Lay Out Tracks Using Media Date/Time Stamp" from the submenu.

I instantly get this message: "some media did not have valid offset information and were skipped"

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN, please?

----- My information:

Vegas Pro version 16.0 Build 307. Running in Windows 10.

 

 

Comments

OldSmoke wrote on 12/3/2018, 8:57 AM

Where are your source media from and do they contain proper time code information?

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

ernie-tamminga wrote on 12/3/2018, 11:47 AM

All the info I have is contained in the jpegs I attached to the post.

I don't know whether Sony's HXR-NX100 camera embeds the kind of timecode that Vegas wants...

OldSmoke wrote on 12/3/2018, 12:35 PM

All the info I have is contained in the jpegs I attached to the post.

I don't know whether Sony's HXR-NX100 camera embeds the kind of timecode that Vegas wants...

Unfortunately the jpegs don't contain any information about the timecode. According to the HXR-NX100 manual, the camera has a timecode menu and if set properly, Vegas should be able to read it. Did you record as AVCHD 1080i?

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

OldSmoke wrote on 12/3/2018, 1:03 PM

Here is a sample of a clip from my FDR-AX700

Note the circled area showing the timecode embedded in the file.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Musicvid wrote on 12/3/2018, 1:20 PM

Timecode in the files alone will not sync recordings made without a SMPTE slave cable (xlr) connecting your device clock sources.

Without Pluraleyes, the easiest, if not slightly messy way, is to chop audio approx. every ten minutes, exactly at zero crossings, in "quiet" program areas.

OldSmoke wrote on 12/3/2018, 1:32 PM

Timecode in the files alone will not sync recordings made without a SMPTE slave cable (xlr) connecting your device clock sources.

Without Pluraleyes, the easiest, if not slightly messy way, is to chop audio approx. every ten minutes, exactly at zero crossings, in "quiet" program areas.

True and not true? I usually sync my cameras manually using the cameras menu, timecode at free run and press set on the remote which syncs all cameras at once. It's not accurate as the cameras clock will drift slightly but it helps with initial alignment; after that, I use visual cues rather then audio. At the events I record, the camera locations are usually far apart, 100ft and more. At that distance, the audio will already be off be a few frames unless I feed audio via XLR to all cameras. Aren't genlock cables usually BNC?

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Musicvid wrote on 12/3/2018, 1:43 PM

True and not true? I usually sync my cameras manually using the cameras menu, timecode at free run and press set on the remote which syncs all cameras at once. It's not accurate as the cameras clock will drift slightly but it helps with initial alignment; after that, I use visual cues rather then audio. 

No, it's not perfect, but it's the best we had (have?).

My experience with localized drift is the same as yours, but the cable confines it from becoming progressively worse over time.

For a discussion of SMPTE freerun vs. genlock, which we used together on the big shows to feed multiple audio destinations, I found this article to be an excellent review.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/video/tips-and-solutions/timecode-versus-sync-how-they-differ-and-why-it-matters

 

OldJack wrote on 12/3/2018, 2:10 PM

I just upgraded to Vegas Pro 16 from Pro 13. I used to use PluralEyes for synching my multicam projects, but the version of PluralEyes that I have doesn't show up in the new Vegas (and it would be too expensive to buy the latest PluralEyes).

If you have pluraleyes 4 just download the latest "trial version", install, enter your old versions key and you are good to sync.

OldSmoke wrote on 12/3/2018, 2:26 PM

True and not true? I usually sync my cameras manually using the cameras menu, timecode at free run and press set on the remote which syncs all cameras at once. It's not accurate as the cameras clock will drift slightly but it helps with initial alignment; after that, I use visual cues rather then audio. 

No, it's not perfect, but it's the best we had (have?).

My experience with localized drift is the same as yours, but the cable confines it from becoming progressively worse over time.

For a discussion of SMPTE freerun vs. genlock, which we used together on the big shows to feed multiple audio destinations, I found this article to be an excellent review.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/video/tips-and-solutions/timecode-versus-sync-how-they-differ-and-why-it-matters

@Musicvid Thanks for the link! I guess I am not far off with my conclusions. The statement that PluralEyes can handle it within one frame in a 30min project is far off from the truth, I experienced at least 5-10 frames and 30frames (1/2sec. in 60p) as worst case. It also takes very long which is why I gave up on it several years ago. I can do video syncing of 4 cameras within 30min. and that is independent of the length of the project.

 

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Musicvid wrote on 12/3/2018, 2:40 PM

It varies so much from clock to clock, especially with outboard audio recorders.

The zoom recorders from h4n going forward are so stable, drift correction in post is not always needed with higher end camera sources. The original h4 audio otoh had to be cut into chunks as described above, then synced with PE to the locked camera reference track.

 

OldSmoke wrote on 12/3/2018, 2:49 PM

It varies so much from clock to clock, especially with outboard audio recorders.

The zoom recorders from h4n going forward are so stable, drift correction in post is not always needed with higher end camera sources. The original h4 audio otoh had to be cut into chunks as described above.

I never tried an external audio recorder but from what I can read, it's asking for trouble with regards to syncing. I also don't really need it as we can get the audio off the event's audio mixer.

But reading the article, I did notice that less and less cameras have Genlock ports.

 

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

Former user wrote on 12/3/2018, 2:54 PM

I use an External audio recorder all of the time. I may get a frame drift over a 2 hour recording.

Former user wrote on 12/3/2018, 7:01 PM

If you do not want to upgrade pluraleyes in version 16 of Vegas then I advise you to sync your videos in Vegas Pro 13 which has the pluraleyes you used and then just open that project in Vegas Pro 16.

ernie-tamminga wrote on 12/3/2018, 8:46 PM

Thanks, all.

Joelson-Forte: That is the conclusion that I was just about to come to! For projects with only 2 or 3 cameras, doing it manually in Vegas Pro 16 is OK - but for lots-of-timeline projects, PluralEyes is quite useful if, yes, quite slow. For big projects, I plan to do as you suggest: synch in Vegas Pro 13 with PluralEyes, then open the synched project in Vegas Pro 16.