Problem previev & rendering GoPro8

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 3/3/2021, 4:38 PM

Good day. Again, I wanted to resume the topic of the Vegas problem in rendering GoPro videos. I will explain that I am not a filmmaker. I am a camera operator and the GoPro camera is an iron backup next to the professional camera. Well, in no way the Gopro 4k50p file can be rendered without damage, interferences between lines, edge fraying when rendering in HD 25p, HD 50p, HD50i quality. Contrary to the specifications of the manufacturer of the editing sample that the H.254 codec is supported, Vegas cannot cope with the settings available to me, with this material. You guys are very helpful, gentlemen editors, we solved a lot of problems together, but this one still is. Support from the vegas support is not available, the service technician just stopped responding to my messages on this matter.

 

I am broken. I'm recording 4K50P with Panasonic GH5 - works great no problems. I render, crop, even interlace it, and it works. And GoPro is not working, although it is an amateur camera. I am enclosing material for testing.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19pegTTtdut4zx7whMyy_cmSDi3LBoJ8e/view?usp=sharing

Last changed by Piotr-Diszer

Camera: Sony A7S3 4K - 50p 150 mB/s, Sony A7S 1080 / 50P, Panasonic GH5 4K / 50p, Panasonic GX80 HD / 50p, Gopro 8 4K 50p, Gopro9 4K / 50p, Mavic DJI Mini PRO 4K / 50p. Computer A: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro, Intel i7-9700K CPU @ 3.60GHz, Asrock Z390 Pro4, RAM 32GB, SSD NVMe M.2 Kingston 1TB, GTX1660i. Driver Nvidia Studio 531.41. Computer B: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro, Intel i7 4770, Ram DDR 3 32GB, Asus Z87A, Nvidia Geforce 1660Ti, SSD Adata 1TB.

Comments

Musicvid wrote on 3/3/2021, 4:56 PM

The topic is well-discussed on this forum.

Use a proxy render on the timeline.

EricLNZ wrote on 3/3/2021, 5:08 PM

You've raised this previously and it's been discussed in your other threads, along with suggestions for solving your problem.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/problem-previev-rendering-gopro8--127522/

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-problem-rendering-gopro-84k--126581/

 

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 3/3/2021, 5:08 PM

Forcing early proxy pre-rendering does not get you any center. Perhaps it's good for 4k quick preview for weaker computers. For me, changing to a proxy gives the effect that the image in the preview is so pixelated that it is difficult to read the content and edit. Besides, I'm talking about poor quality, interference and edge fraying in the rendered finished movie.

Last changed by Piotr-Diszer on 3/3/2021, 5:20 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Camera: Sony A7S3 4K - 50p 150 mB/s, Sony A7S 1080 / 50P, Panasonic GH5 4K / 50p, Panasonic GX80 HD / 50p, Gopro 8 4K 50p, Gopro9 4K / 50p, Mavic DJI Mini PRO 4K / 50p. Computer A: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro, Intel i7-9700K CPU @ 3.60GHz, Asrock Z390 Pro4, RAM 32GB, SSD NVMe M.2 Kingston 1TB, GTX1660i. Driver Nvidia Studio 531.41. Computer B: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro, Intel i7 4770, Ram DDR 3 32GB, Asus Z87A, Nvidia Geforce 1660Ti, SSD Adata 1TB.

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 3/3/2021, 5:17 PM

This is what a fragment of the finished movie looks like in the place where the Gopro8 material is. In spite of the pre-rendering and proxy files, the inter-line interference is clearly visible. Any of you have practical wisdom, what am I doing wrong? Or is it a disadvantage of Vegas?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18_UiNik-i6_12aD9s1WCutrImmF-HeIO/view?usp=sharing

Camera: Sony A7S3 4K - 50p 150 mB/s, Sony A7S 1080 / 50P, Panasonic GH5 4K / 50p, Panasonic GX80 HD / 50p, Gopro 8 4K 50p, Gopro9 4K / 50p, Mavic DJI Mini PRO 4K / 50p. Computer A: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro, Intel i7-9700K CPU @ 3.60GHz, Asrock Z390 Pro4, RAM 32GB, SSD NVMe M.2 Kingston 1TB, GTX1660i. Driver Nvidia Studio 531.41. Computer B: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro, Intel i7 4770, Ram DDR 3 32GB, Asus Z87A, Nvidia Geforce 1660Ti, SSD Adata 1TB.

EricLNZ wrote on 3/3/2021, 5:18 PM

Your problem is mainly caused by the downsizing of 4k to 1080 as 3POINT mentioned, and it's an inherent problem with the digital image being represented by pixels in fixed positions. It's made worse if you convert to interlaced.

I've no experience with 4K but the same problem occurs when downsizing 1080 to SD. I found one method was to slightly soften the source image before downsizing. From memory I found I needed to have the softening (very, very light gaussian blur) applied as a Media FX (not Event FX). This ensured the softening occurred before downsizing for output render.

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 3/3/2021, 5:33 PM

I agree with you EricLNZ. When I crop Gopro8 materials in a project with 4096 x 2160 to 1980 cropping effect, after rendering the quality of the Gopro footage on the finished movie is acceptable. The effect you wrote about, softening will help. But good quality should come from Vegas software. The programmers from Berlin should do it. I'm an engineer so I know that not everything is going well, even at NASA.. More and more cameras will have a codec like Gopro8, and before the technical problem I write about is solved, Magix will not escape. Maybe the next upgrade is enough? Unless I'm wrong and someone knows the way. From other 4K cameras that I use, Sony PXW-z280 or Panasonic HC-X1, Canon FX400 materials are upscaling properly without distortion.

Last changed by Piotr-Diszer on 3/3/2021, 6:00 PM, changed a total of 4 times.

Camera: Sony A7S3 4K - 50p 150 mB/s, Sony A7S 1080 / 50P, Panasonic GH5 4K / 50p, Panasonic GX80 HD / 50p, Gopro 8 4K 50p, Gopro9 4K / 50p, Mavic DJI Mini PRO 4K / 50p. Computer A: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro, Intel i7-9700K CPU @ 3.60GHz, Asrock Z390 Pro4, RAM 32GB, SSD NVMe M.2 Kingston 1TB, GTX1660i. Driver Nvidia Studio 531.41. Computer B: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro, Intel i7 4770, Ram DDR 3 32GB, Asus Z87A, Nvidia Geforce 1660Ti, SSD Adata 1TB.

RogerS wrote on 3/3/2021, 7:07 PM

Interlacing is the main problem. Why did you start a new thread for the same issue?

Musicvid wrote on 3/3/2021, 7:11 PM

The original files, meaning the ones from which you actually render, are left unchanged and will render precisely as if there were no proxy in place.

Given the timeline and preview advantages of using a lighter-weight surrogate, I consider the slightly lower resolution during editing to not be such a disadvantage as you seem to relate.

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 3/3/2021, 7:26 PM

I know, the proxy is for smooth preview. But I would like to have GoPro shots in the finished movie, wide angle. Sometimes I crop, I do a crop effect. But a good movie with high kata shots is better. Ignoring that, Vegas can't render Gopro8 with resolution all the time 4k50p to HD50p or HD25p. While from other cameras, the upscaling from 4K to HD is flawless. Anyone have a way how to render H.265 from Gopro8 to finished HD movie without distortion? More and more cameras are using H.265, and there will be a massacre in Vegas.

Camera: Sony A7S3 4K - 50p 150 mB/s, Sony A7S 1080 / 50P, Panasonic GH5 4K / 50p, Panasonic GX80 HD / 50p, Gopro 8 4K 50p, Gopro9 4K / 50p, Mavic DJI Mini PRO 4K / 50p. Computer A: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro, Intel i7-9700K CPU @ 3.60GHz, Asrock Z390 Pro4, RAM 32GB, SSD NVMe M.2 Kingston 1TB, GTX1660i. Driver Nvidia Studio 531.41. Computer B: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro, Intel i7 4770, Ram DDR 3 32GB, Asus Z87A, Nvidia Geforce 1660Ti, SSD Adata 1TB.

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 3/3/2021, 7:28 PM

Interlacing is the main problem. Why did you start a new thread for the same issue?

INTERLACING?

Thank you and sorry, I did not go a single step in solving the problem. neither the Magix engineers nor the honorable forum comrades helped. Are we looking for a genius to solve it?

I've already given myself the hay, it's difficult - interline is bad, it's a pity, it's enough to give the digitization algorithm in the software. But why doesn't Magix do this? It's bad at progressive. Definitely bad.

I am now determined, ready to submit a complaint to the German embassy with a request for help from the consumer protection office. Or take the computer under your arm and go to Berlin - let them wise up on what's wrong.

Magic does not give you ANY specific technical data, and settings how to bite movies from Gopro H.265. I won't do it for them, it's not open source, but they took a lot of money from us.

Last changed by Piotr-Diszer on 3/3/2021, 7:46 PM, changed a total of 4 times.

Camera: Sony A7S3 4K - 50p 150 mB/s, Sony A7S 1080 / 50P, Panasonic GH5 4K / 50p, Panasonic GX80 HD / 50p, Gopro 8 4K 50p, Gopro9 4K / 50p, Mavic DJI Mini PRO 4K / 50p. Computer A: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro, Intel i7-9700K CPU @ 3.60GHz, Asrock Z390 Pro4, RAM 32GB, SSD NVMe M.2 Kingston 1TB, GTX1660i. Driver Nvidia Studio 531.41. Computer B: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro, Intel i7 4770, Ram DDR 3 32GB, Asus Z87A, Nvidia Geforce 1660Ti, SSD Adata 1TB.

Musicvid wrote on 3/3/2021, 7:55 PM

@Piotr-Diszer

Vegas doesn't "upscale" from 4k to HD. That would be a 75% reduction, or "downscale."

As I said before, Vegas uses the original GoPro 4k footage to render. It does not do anything with the proxy. Once that is understood, you are invited to start your learning curve here, and best of luck!

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/got-questions-consult-the-tutorials-first-please--120282/

RogerS wrote on 3/3/2021, 8:08 PM

@Piotr-Diszer It is important not to blame Vegas for your own problems. Don't render progressive footage as interlaced.

Here's an example of the original footage rendered as HD 25p link

The source footage is overly sharp (turn that down in the GoPro if you can) and may have been filmed at an overly high shutter speed making it look a bit jerky with unnatural edges. If there are ND filters for your camera, consider using them in daylight.

 

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 3/3/2021, 8:11 PM

Hey MusicVid , always wherever i work, be it Adobe or Edius, videos recorded in 4K, rendered to HD are better, have improved sharpness, and so on. They must be better because that's the math of pixels, not worse than with Gopro. You don't have to tell me that HD is 1/4 4K. I'm not in kindergarten. Magix Vegas 18 works properly on 4K from other cameras, why is Good God unable to do it with a movie from an amateur Gopro action camera? Should I throw the Gopro onto the pavement because the Magix engineers have not worked on the quality? End this wasted help, Who knows the setup to render a 4k50p H.265 movie from Gopro to HD in Vegas18?

 

Last changed by Piotr-Diszer on 3/3/2021, 8:23 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Camera: Sony A7S3 4K - 50p 150 mB/s, Sony A7S 1080 / 50P, Panasonic GH5 4K / 50p, Panasonic GX80 HD / 50p, Gopro 8 4K 50p, Gopro9 4K / 50p, Mavic DJI Mini PRO 4K / 50p. Computer A: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro, Intel i7-9700K CPU @ 3.60GHz, Asrock Z390 Pro4, RAM 32GB, SSD NVMe M.2 Kingston 1TB, GTX1660i. Driver Nvidia Studio 531.41. Computer B: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro, Intel i7 4770, Ram DDR 3 32GB, Asus Z87A, Nvidia Geforce 1660Ti, SSD Adata 1TB.

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 3/3/2021, 8:22 PM

but in progressive rendering the problem is the same. Whatever I wear on a lens with gray filters or avoid the Ryan effect, it has nothing to do with in-line interpolation. Anyone have an idea? Or maybe download the movie from the link to the Google drive or try it yourself? It's easy to write, and it's harder to work with the actual file, but then you'll understand me

 

Camera: Sony A7S3 4K - 50p 150 mB/s, Sony A7S 1080 / 50P, Panasonic GH5 4K / 50p, Panasonic GX80 HD / 50p, Gopro 8 4K 50p, Gopro9 4K / 50p, Mavic DJI Mini PRO 4K / 50p. Computer A: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro, Intel i7-9700K CPU @ 3.60GHz, Asrock Z390 Pro4, RAM 32GB, SSD NVMe M.2 Kingston 1TB, GTX1660i. Driver Nvidia Studio 531.41. Computer B: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro, Intel i7 4770, Ram DDR 3 32GB, Asus Z87A, Nvidia Geforce 1660Ti, SSD Adata 1TB.

RogerS wrote on 3/3/2021, 8:23 PM

Here is the file at HD 50p if you want it output at that frame rate for some reason: link

If it were me I'd only shoot 50p for slow motion. Here's half the clip on a 25p timeline (so 50% slow motion.) This time I rendered with Voukoder and the zscale filter to reduce to HD to see how it looked compared to Magix's own downscaling. link

The suggestion above to blur before downscaling might be a good one to get rid of these artificially sharp edges. See if you can change the settings on your GoPro to reduce shutter speed and reduce sharpening. Is it set to high bit rate, too?
 

RogerS wrote on 3/3/2021, 8:24 PM

(I downloaded your interlaced file and the original, of course)

Piotr-Diszer wrote on 3/3/2021, 8:26 PM

Thank you, the original is progressive. What do you think, HD50p or HD25P can be done?

Camera: Sony A7S3 4K - 50p 150 mB/s, Sony A7S 1080 / 50P, Panasonic GH5 4K / 50p, Panasonic GX80 HD / 50p, Gopro 8 4K 50p, Gopro9 4K / 50p, Mavic DJI Mini PRO 4K / 50p. Computer A: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro, Intel i7-9700K CPU @ 3.60GHz, Asrock Z390 Pro4, RAM 32GB, SSD NVMe M.2 Kingston 1TB, GTX1660i. Driver Nvidia Studio 531.41. Computer B: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro, Intel i7 4770, Ram DDR 3 32GB, Asus Z87A, Nvidia Geforce 1660Ti, SSD Adata 1TB.

RogerS wrote on 3/3/2021, 8:48 PM

50p looks smoother than 25p (of course), but it's not a normal frame rate to output to as it looks too smooth for many shots.

I think 25p works here and if you changed GoPro settings to reduce the excessive sharpness that make the aliasing stand out, it would look better.

I did a render with the software Handbrake to 1080 25p, and while sharp, the motion looks worse than Vegas. link (perhaps the 50p to 25p conversion isn't great with Handbrake?)

Last changed by RogerS on 3/4/2021, 12:14 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

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Try the
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RogerS wrote on 3/3/2021, 11:53 PM

Thank you, the original is progressive. What do you think, HD50p or HD25P can be done?

I think try capturing (setting GoPro) to HD 25p or 4K 25p, use the highest bit rate it supports, lower sharpening and see how the rendered files from Vegas look.

3POINT wrote on 3/4/2021, 12:10 AM

I admire the patience my fellow Vegas users have with someone who seems to be unteachable.

Last changed by 3POINT on 3/4/2021, 12:12 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5 and co-founder and moderator of the Dutch Vegasforum https://vegasvideoforum.nl/index.php

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EricLNZ wrote on 3/4/2021, 1:31 AM

I wonder if there's a language difficulty here as I suspect English isn't the OP's native language.

3POINT wrote on 3/4/2021, 2:16 AM

English is also not my native language and I understand that not everyone here is a native English speaker, therefore I try to keep my advice as simple as possible. Unfortunately not every native English speaker does this here, making threads unnecessary complicated with Oxford English, abbreviations and typical english sayings.

EricLNZ wrote on 3/4/2021, 2:56 AM

Thanks @3POINT I agree we should all try to keep our advice as simple as possible. Actually it's not Oxford English that I struggle with at times but local sayings/expressions especially from the USA. Also some English words have different meanings or usage in different parts of the world!

RogerS wrote on 3/4/2021, 3:06 AM

As a native English speaker working in a non-English speaking country, I agree with the above. I try to be precise with terms and avoid idioms and assume good intentions even when comments seem rude or abrupt.

Not sure language is the primary issue in this case, however. Problem 1 was "I am not a filmmaker. I am a camera operator" and problem 2 was not understanding why 4K60p GoPro footage would look worse when downscaled than a GH5. When I look at the footage I see aliasing and oversharpened false detail and other artifacts common with small sensors (like drones, action cams and phones). Then an attempt to mitigate that with an interlaced render...