Rendering desyncing

brandon-oh wrote on 10/21/2018, 7:05 PM

We are having issues with rendering our videos. Everything in the project file is synced in the preview, but after the video is rendered the audio is not match with our video capture. We have two main audio tracks of our voice and audio we recorded through a capture card. Neither is accurate to the preview in Vegas Pro 15, and again it is perfect in the preview. in the render, the audio becomes more and more off as the video goes on. We will post our media info at the bottom.

 

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\RockL\Documents\Medievil1.1.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 7.12 MiB
Duration                                 : 8 s 0 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 7 467 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-10-17 02:26:43
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-10-17 02:26:43

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Main@L3.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, RefFrames               : 3 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=4, N=15
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 8 s 0 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 7 274 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 16.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 280 pixels
Height                                   : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.316
Stream size                              : 6.94 MiB (97%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-10-17 02:26:53
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-10-17 02:26:53
Color range                              : Limited
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 8 s 0 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 351 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 184 KiB (3%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-10-17 02:26:46
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-10-17 02:26:46

Comments

NickHope wrote on 10/21/2018, 10:43 PM

Is that MediaInfo for the source video or the rendered file?

What format are you rendering to?

How was the source video created?

Which version of VP15 are you using?

ryclark wrote on 10/22/2018, 6:28 AM

Variable bit rates in both video and audio are a pain and very likely to cause sync problems IMHO. Always use CBR where possible.

Musicvid wrote on 10/22/2018, 7:01 AM

Ryclark, you may be mistaking bit rate with frame rate. All video/audio for streaming and normal delivery is vbr, very few exceptions.

in the render, the audio becomes more and more off as the video goes on. We will post our media info at the bottom.
 

Are you recording the audio separately or as real-time overdub in Vegas? Both have special considerations for sync, and you cannot expect audio recorded sepsrately with an unslaved clock to line up at beginning AND end.

The vastly preferred method is to not to have to resync in post, but there is an extension called Pluraleyes if you're stuck.

ryclark wrote on 10/23/2018, 7:37 AM

No I wasn't confusing bit rate with frame rate. But extrapolating from my experience of VBR in audio format editing and compression. 😉

Musicvid wrote on 10/23/2018, 8:40 AM

In 2018, all normal commercial delivery and streaming is vbr.

It's a bandwidth thing.

Vbr doesnt affect frame indexing by itself. Dropped frames do, and that may be part of the reported problem.

Thanks for taking it that direction.

 

Musicvid wrote on 10/23/2018, 10:07 AM

Brandon, in addition to the requested information, is this a tv broadcast recording? If so, there are special considerations and a possible fix called VideoRedo.

brandon-oh wrote on 10/23/2018, 4:01 PM

Is that MediaInfo for the source video or the rendered file?

It's the rendered video

What format are you rendering to?

MP4

How was the source video created?

We use a program called ArcSoft Showbiz to capture the PS2 footage since apparently Vegas doesn't recognize our A/V capture device, then we import it to Vegas to edit/render

Which version of VP15 are you using?

15.0 (build 361)

brandon-oh wrote on 10/23/2018, 4:02 PM

Variable bit rates in both video and audio are a pain and very likely to cause sync problems IMHO. Always use CBR where possible.

CBR? Sorry, I am very illiterate when it comes to this kind of stuff.

brandon-oh wrote on 10/23/2018, 4:15 PM

Also, I thought I should mention how we go about getting our recordings. We haven't had any trouble with getting H/D capture on Vegas' in house game capture so far, so only step 1 is for A/V capture

  1. Start the game capture on Showbiz
  2. Go to Vegas and start recording audio, since we don't really know how to capture both at once.
  3. After we capture what we need for a session, end both game and audio capture
  4. Drag both our mic audio and game capture into Vegas

This is where things get weird

5. When we import the game audio and video in together (since they captured together) the video is always shorter than the audio, even though we cut both at the same time.

We can usually fix this by simply stretching just the video to meet the end of the audio and as I've mentioned before, everything looks and sounds good in the Vegas preview, it's just rendering it makes it slowly desync over time.

Musicvid wrote on 10/23/2018, 5:30 PM

Finally. A nugget of revelation. Why do they wait so long?

One cannot capture using the PS3 internal playback clock, the Windows system clock, and audio card clock simultaneously without some drift from asynchronicity. Your ps3 has latency. Your video preview has latency. Your audio capture / monitor has latency. Not a perfect scenario.

Think of setting two rowboats adrift in the ocean. Will they wash ashore at exactly the same instant?

Now tie the two boats together with a 10 foot rope. Any better chance of reaching the beach together.

The "rope" in this case is SMPTE freerun timecode with genlock, which I'm pretty certain your audio card does not recognize.

When we import the game audio and video in together (since they captured together) the video is always shorter than the audio, even though we cut both at the same time.

By how much are they off? What happens if you stretch nothing? Is your project set to match video frame rate and audio sample rate? Is your video preview running at full frame rate?

Are you sure to use ASIO audio drivers and not Mapper in Vegas? That may help. Otherwise, stretching 10 minute chunks and Pluraleyes are your best options.

In my signature is a link to recommended capture settings in Vegas using OBS.

I don't know if they work with PS3. Do post back.

 

brandon-oh wrote on 10/23/2018, 6:15 PM

By how much are they off? At least a minute or so's worth What happens if you stretch nothing? Desynced, just like with the render Is your project set to match video frame rate and audio sample rate? Match with each other, or to some other measurement? Is your video preview running at full frame rate? How can you tell if it is?

Are you sure to use ASIO audio drivers and not Mapper in Vegas? I don't know, but I can check. Where would I find this? That may help. Otherwise, stretching 10 minute chunks and Pluraleyes are your best options.

In my signature is a link to recommended capture settings in Vegas using OBS. I've tried using OBS, but it won't capture any game footage. It won't even recognize my capture card. The only thing it seems to capture are windows.

I don't know if they work with PS3. Do post back. I don't know if it matters but I'm using PS4 and PS2.

 

 

Musicvid wrote on 10/23/2018, 6:32 PM

Audio driver settings are in Preferences. We try to bypass a lot of basic questions like how to match Media settings that are already answered here and here, as well as Help, Show Me How, and What's This?, all thoughtfully provided with your program. Good luck. I don't know of a mantra for asynchronous clock frequencies, and I've been trying for fifteen years.

What I suggest you do is capture your video and add voiceover to a new timeline track. You must select ASIO drivers to monitor your audio.

brandon-oh wrote on 10/23/2018, 6:36 PM

Audio driver settings are in Preferences. We try to bypass a lot of basic questions that are already answered here and here.

I don't have ASIO in my driver list.

Musicvid wrote on 10/23/2018, 6:45 PM

Search for ASIO drivers for your audio card, there are alternatives.

Either way you may be SOL trying to do it all at once, unless you can connect your mic to the PlayStation.

brandon-oh wrote on 10/23/2018, 6:51 PM

It's not our voice track that's the issue, we can sync that to the vid in post. It's the game audio that slowly desyncs from the video that is was directly recorded with that's the issue.

brandon-oh wrote on 10/23/2018, 6:56 PM

And what will an ASIO driver fix specifically? And what does Pluraleyes do? I just don't know why the video would be lined up and synced in the preview, but be completely off post render...

Will-Kenworthy wrote on 10/24/2018, 12:40 AM

An ASIO driver is low latency, especially compared to Microsoft's Sound Mapper. There are ASIO drivers available that will work with your device. Just google it for options. I've heard that ASIOforall is one that works, but I cannot confirm that.

I haven't used Pluraleyes so I can't comment on it. But I can tell you that regarding your problem with sync that there are at least three instances when the properties of video & audio are relevant to results or process.

1) The original properties of the media before it is loaded to the timeline; 2) The properties the media is loaded on the timeline with (project properties); 3) and the properties, or parameters used to render the media to...

Each of these three instances in any project present a myriad of choices and options that must be made correctly for satisfactory results.

Here are a few more nuggets I hope will help you:

Variable bit rate and CBR, or Constant Bit Rate, are methods or process whereby Video and/or Audio are encoded/decoded, or rendered, distributed, played back, and or broadcast into or in a format. Obviously VBR is more efficient and therefore more widely used in broadcast.

You may already be aware of this but if not .... Latency is the time it takes for audio to go through your computer, through the software (Vegas) and back out. The reason it's important is that you have to be able to monitor what you are recording with/against or syncing with or to, accurately and in time, to achieve accurate, in sync results. This is a huge issue that can't be adequately explained in 2 or 3 sentences. It is worth some research .....

Be sure to check out: drop frame, frame rate, sample rate, pixel format, aspect ratio, field order, etc.

Within Vegas project properties (the manual) check out: full resolution rendering quality, adjust source media to better match project or render settings, all parameters in a rendering template ......

I hope this is of some help to you ..... and good luck,

Will