Rendering with the correct settings

DEL707 wrote on 3/13/2018, 4:35 PM
I've recently edited a video and rendered it. The resolution is correct as well as the FPS, but the quality is noticable lower the the original video, it's less sharp and fuzzy. The original video was 6gb, the edited version is 1gb, despite it being slightly longer. Is there anyway to tell the render process to use the same settings as the source video?

Comments

Musicvid wrote on 3/13/2018, 5:55 PM

No there is not. But if you'll post the internal properties of your source and rendered files, we can get you really close on quality, which is what you're really after.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

The reason Vegas cannot use your source compression settings is because it uses a different ENCODER. Basic description of terms is here:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/speaking-good-video-a-beginner-s-guide--104463/

DEL707 wrote on 3/13/2018, 6:55 PM

Thanks for the reply.

Heres the mediainfo for the original file.
General
Complete name                            : D:\Recording\Warhammer  Vermintide 2\Warhammer  Vermintide 2 03.10.2018 - 20.36.09.04.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 6.00 GiB
Duration                                 : 17 min 20 s
Overall bit rate                         : 49.6 Mb/s
Recorded date                            : 2018
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-03-10 20:53:31
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-03-10 20:53:31

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, RefFrames               : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=30
Muxing mode                              : Container profile=High@1.3
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 17 min 20 s
Source duration                          : 17 min 20 s
Bit rate                                 : 49.4 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 60.000 FPS
Minimum frame rate                       : 2.872 FPS
Maximum frame rate                       : 63.920 FPS
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.397
Stream size                              : 5.98 GiB (100%)
Source stream size                       : 5.98 GiB (100%)
Title                                    : VideoHandle
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-03-10 20:53:31
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-03-10 20:53:31
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.601 NTSC
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.470 System M
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.601
mdhd_Duration                            : 1040826

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 17 min 20 s
Source duration                          : 17 min 20 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Nominal bit rate                         : 96.0 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 24.3 MiB (0%)
Source stream size                       : 24.3 MiB (0%)
Title                                    : SoundHandle / System sounds
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-03-10 20:53:31
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-03-10 20:53:31
mdhd_Duration                            : 1040683

 

Think I've done this right, this is the properties on the same file in Vegas.

General
  Name: Warhammer  Vermintide 2 03.10.2018 - 20.36.09.04.mp4
  Folder: D:\Recording\Warhammer  Vermintide 2
  Type: AVC
  Size: 6.30 GB (6,447,635,843 bytes)
  Created: 10 March 2018, 20:36:10
  Modified: 10 March 2018, 20:53:31
  Accessed: 10 March 2018, 20:36:10
  Attributes: Archive

Streams
  Video: 00:17:20.832, 59.977 fps progressive, 1920x1080x32, AVC
  Audio: 00:17:20.639, 48,000 Hz, Stereo, AAC

ACID information
  ACID chunk: no
  Stretch chunk: no
  Stretch list: no
  Stretch info2: no
  Beat markers: no
  Detected beats: no

Other metadata
  Regions/markers: no
  Command markers: no

Media manager
  Media tags: no

Plug-In
  Name: so4compoundplug.dll
  Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\Movie Studio Platinum 15.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\so4compoundplug
  Format: AVC
  Version: Version 1.0 (Build 8532)
  Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

 

Musicvid wrote on 3/13/2018, 7:17 PM

And now your project properties and rendered file MediaInfo for comparison?

DEL707 wrote on 3/13/2018, 7:32 PM

Here's the mediainfo for the finished rendered file.

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Darren\Documents\Movie Studio 15.0 Platinum Projects\Vermintide 2 (3).mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (mp42/isom)
File size                                : 1.64 GiB
Duration                                 : 17 min 23 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 13.5 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-03-13 13:06:18
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-03-13 13:06:18

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, RefFrames               : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=2, N=30
Muxing mode                              : Container profile=High@4.0
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 17 min 23 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 13.4 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 26.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.108
Stream size                              : 1.63 GiB (99%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-03-13 13:06:18
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-03-13 13:06:18

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 17 min 23 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 128 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 15.9 MiB (1%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-03-13 13:06:18
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-03-13 13:06:18

 

I'm not quite show how to post the project settings, so I'll just add a screenshot.

https://i.imgur.com/UqRmIw3.jpg

Musicvid wrote on 3/13/2018, 9:42 PM

Try a higher bitrate or encode in Handbrake, which may be slightly higher quality.

Your settings are fine, save for frame rate, which "may" produce a blurred frame every 1/1000. To be sure, disable resample in a future test project and compare for a resampled vs. duped frame.

3POINT wrote on 3/13/2018, 9:53 PM

The original file is variable framerate and the rendered file is constant bitrate! The resampling will cause a slightly blurred image of moving parts. Disable resampling.

Last changed by 3POINT on 3/13/2018, 9:55 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

3POINT, Theo Houben, Vegasuser since version 5 and co-founder and moderator of the Dutch Vegasforum https://vegasvideoforum.nl/index.php

Recware: DJI Osmo Pocket/Mavic Mini, GoproHero7Black, PanasonicFZ300/HCX909.

Software: Vegaspro365+Vegasaur, Davinci Resolve 20, PowerDirector365

Hardware: i910900k, 32GB, GTX2080super, 2x1920x1200 display

Playware: Samsung Qled QE65Q6FN

DEL707 wrote on 3/14/2018, 3:35 PM

Thanks, video definately looks better.

Still not quite as good as the original though, what would be the best template to use?
Something like "AVA/AAC mp4 - Internet HD 1080p 59.94fps"?

3POINT wrote on 3/14/2018, 3:51 PM

Personally I prefer the Sony AVC Codec, instead of Mainconcept/Magix AVC Codec.

SeaTac wrote on 3/20/2018, 12:38 AM

Personally I prefer the Sony AVC Codec, instead of Mainconcept/Magix AVC Codec.


I was using the Sony AVC Codec when I had MSP v13 and continued to use it when I upgraded to v15. What happened is I did not realize I needed to use the Mainconcept/Magix Codec to enable MSP to use the graphic card. When I did that the time was shortened by a good amount. Nothing wrong with Sony codec just a little slow for me.

3POINT wrote on 3/20/2018, 12:45 AM

Personally I prefer the Sony AVC Codec, instead of Mainconcept/Magix AVC Codec.


I was using the Sony AVC Codec when I had MSP v13 and continued to use it when I upgraded to v15. What happened is I did not realize I needed to use the Mainconcept/Magix Codec to enable MSP to use the graphic card. When I did that the time was shortened by a good amount. Nothing wrong with Sony codec just a little slow for me.

Did you also compare the quality difference? I use the MAVC only for fast testrenders, for the final render I still prefer SAVC.

Musicvid wrote on 3/20/2018, 6:04 AM

The source bitrate is more than three times that of the output.

At 1080p 60, both AVC encoders in Vegas are going to start losing their luster below about 20Mbps. A higher bitrate and comparison with Handbrake would seem very useful for @DEL707

3POINT wrote on 3/20/2018, 7:32 AM

I render my 4kp24 footage to 1080p24 with the standard SAVC 1080p template, which has just a maxbitrate of 16Mbps and an average (depending on details and motion) of about 13,5Mbps.I get a clear and extreme detailed picture. When I render this footage with MAVC 1080p24 template, which has a maxbitrate of 24Mbps and an average of 12Mbps, I see lots of artifacts (blocks) during fades and on equal colored backgrounds (blue sky).

For 1080p60 footage I would raise the maxbitrate of the SAVC template to 20Mbps.

EricLNZ wrote on 3/20/2018, 5:11 PM

I render my 4kp24 footage to 1080p24 with the standard SAVC 1080p template, which has just a maxbitrate of 16Mbps and an average (depending on details and motion) of about 13,5Mbps.I get a clear and extreme detailed picture. When I render this footage with MAVC 1080p24 template, which has a maxbitrate of 24Mbps and an average of 12Mbps, I see lots of artifacts (blocks) during fades and on equal colored backgrounds (blue sky).

For 1080p60 footage I would raise the maxbitrate of the SAVC template to 20Mbps.

3POINT - my experience is similar with my 1080 50i but in respect of your last sentence have you actually done this? I ask because when I've tried to increase the bitrate in SAVC from the default 16 using the drop down list I get problems. The rendered file reports its audio length incorrectly which can cause problems with players especially if you fast forward or backwards. So I stick to the default 16 Mbps.

SeaTac wrote on 3/20/2018, 5:39 PM

Personally I prefer the Sony AVC Codec, instead of Mainconcept/Magix AVC Codec.


I was using the Sony AVC Codec when I had MSP v13 and continued to use it when I upgraded to v15. What happened is I did not realize I needed to use the Mainconcept/Magix Codec to enable MSP to use the graphic card. When I did that the time was shortened by a good amount. Nothing wrong with Sony codec just a little slow for me.

Did you also compare the quality difference? I use the MAVC only for fast testrenders, for the final render I still prefer SAVC.


It is close enough for my needs. I suppose if I was using the video for more of a professional look I would consider Sony.

3POINT wrote on 3/21/2018, 4:16 AM

I render my 4kp24 footage to 1080p24 with the standard SAVC 1080p template, which has just a maxbitrate of 16Mbps and an average (depending on details and motion) of about 13,5Mbps.I get a clear and extreme detailed picture. When I render this footage with MAVC 1080p24 template, which has a maxbitrate of 24Mbps and an average of 12Mbps, I see lots of artifacts (blocks) during fades and on equal colored backgrounds (blue sky).

For 1080p60 footage I would raise the maxbitrate of the SAVC template to 20Mbps.

3POINT - my experience is similar with my 1080 50i but in respect of your last sentence have you actually done this? I ask because when I've tried to increase the bitrate in SAVC from the default 16 using the drop down list I get problems. The rendered file reports its audio length incorrectly which can cause problems with players especially if you fast forward or backwards. So I stick to the default 16 Mbps.


Yes Eric, I used the 20Mbps bitrate for my past 1080p50 renders, never discovered a problem. At the moment I only render to 1080p24, than indeed the 16Mbps is sufficient.

3POINT wrote on 3/21/2018, 4:20 AM

Personally I prefer the Sony AVC Codec, instead of Mainconcept/Magix AVC Codec.


I was using the Sony AVC Codec when I had MSP v13 and continued to use it when I upgraded to v15. What happened is I did not realize I needed to use the Mainconcept/Magix Codec to enable MSP to use the graphic card. When I did that the time was shortened by a good amount. Nothing wrong with Sony codec just a little slow for me.

Did you also compare the quality difference? I use the MAVC only for fast testrenders, for the final render I still prefer SAVC.


It is close enough for my needs. I suppose if I was using the video for more of a professional look I would consider Sony.


Of course, I can not decide for your quality requirements or your need for speed. I just wanted to say that the quality of the MAVC is visible less than SAVC.