Screencast video settings for better Vegas editing: CQP or CBR?

cadudesun wrote on 6/6/2020, 10:53 AM

Hi,

I'd appreciate your advice, since I'm having Vegas Pro 17 (build 452) crashing a lot, when it playbacks the videos from OBS loaded on the timeline. OBS Studio is the tool I'm using to record the screencast (https://obsproject.com/).

I was using OBS defaults, but just discovered in OBS an "advanced" menu on "settings>output mode" that would allow me to set the smoothest video source for Vegas playback and editing.

Along with my concern to obtain high-quality video for my screencast recordings, I'm trying to get the video source from OBS that can be handled the best by Vegas Pro.

My use case is for recording screencast explaining the usage of software applications, having:

- Most of the screen remains still.

- Most of the movements come from the mouse and software interfaces, dialogs, and drop-down menus popping-up and being tweaked.

- Examples of applications I'm recording are from Microsoft Office, with PowerPoint being the one that would request the highest performance because of its transitions and animations. Eventually, the extreme scenario would be the demonstration of an embed video being played from within PowerPoint.

Then, my questions (I'm using 30FPS and the encoder NVIDIA NVENC H.264 for every case):

a) I could set the rate control to CQP (Constant Quantisation Parameter) or CFR (Constant Bitrate). Which of those should be best for Vegas editing?

b) Which value do you recommend for CQP (1 to 30) and CRF ( ... Kbps)?

c) Lastly, the recording format could be either .MP4 or .MKV. Which one would be better?

If you think there are other relevant settings, I'd appreciate a lot to hear them from you 👍

Thank you very much!

_Carlos_

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Screenshot with the settings to choose from:

Comments

Musicvid wrote on 6/6/2020, 12:28 PM

I could set the rate control to CQP (Constant Quantisation Parameter) or CFR (Constant Bitrate).

You must have made a typo. I think you mean:

"I could set the rate control to CQP (Constant Quantisation Parameter) or CRF (Constant Rate Factor).

To answer your question. with your low-motion source. it makes not a bit of difference. There's not enough data flow to even trigger a --ratecontrol response.

But using a lossless intraframe encoder will make a difference. Here are my top-shelf settings for OBS; the UT encoder is nearly 1:1.

Then you can encode your pristine intermediate to whatever delivery format you want, without being locked into it.

 

cadudesun wrote on 6/7/2020, 9:29 AM

But using a lossless intraframe encoder will make a difference. Here are my top-shelf settings for OBS; the UT encoder is nearly 1:1.

Many thanks for your recommendations and sharing your settings @Musicvid.

Actually, I learned further from that, since I never had used the "Custom output (FFmpeg)".

The output quality was perfect using the UT encoder, although the generated file sizes are huge.

I'm going to save and use those settings for my productions that requires the highest possible quality.

A further question:

If you want the best cost-benefit between video quality and file size, what would be your OBS setup, considering an OBS output that is Vegas-friendly for editing?

 

 

 

Musicvid wrote on 6/8/2020, 8:48 AM

I'm going to save and use those settings for my productions that requires the highest possible quality.

Good idea. Those huge files handle best on your timeline, btw.

If you want the best cost-benefit between video quality and file size, what would be your OBS setup, considering an OBS output that is Vegas-friendly for editing?

Probably x264 at CRF20. I would never use NVENC as an intermediate.

cadudesun wrote on 6/8/2020, 9:53 AM

Probably x264 at CRF20. I would never use NVENC as an intermediate.

 

Hi @Musicvid, many thanks for your further feedback.

I just got curious about your statement that you "would never use NVENC as an intermediate".

Could you please inform, what do you have against NVENC?

Musicvid wrote on 6/8/2020, 10:02 AM

It is a hardware encoder, not as bad as QSV, but it won't hold up well past the second generation. Here are my software intermediate comparisons.

Here is wwaag's Quality Measurement Tool

https://tools4vegas.com/render-quality-metrics-2/

Musicvid wrote on 7/14/2020, 3:11 PM

Note: I have changed my first graphic to reflect the correct audio setting to use with the UT AVI capture codec.

Former user wrote on 7/14/2020, 6:31 PM

 

My use case is for recording screencast explaining the usage of software applications, having:

- Most of the screen remains still.

- Most of the movements come from the mouse and software interfaces, dialogs, and drop-down menus popping-up and being tweaked.

- Examples of applications I'm recording are from Microsoft Office, with PowerPoint being the one that would request the highest performance because of its transitions and animations. Eventually, the extreme scenario would be the demonstration of an embed video being played from within PowerPoint.

This is what I use for similar, but not for game capture. This will use more cuda if using a GPU without turing NVENC, but not a concern in your scenario

depending on your computer x.264 software encode could bog it down cpu wise, or create annoying fan noise.

cadudesun wrote on 7/16/2020, 6:50 AM

@Musicvid @Former user

Many thanks for the recent information shared by you!

wwaag wrote on 7/16/2020, 5:58 PM

If you want the best quality from OBS render to a lossless codec such as MagicYUV or UtVideo. Both are supported in Vegas. Since its mostly keyboard stuff, I'd select 23.98 fps for the initial capture. Once editing is completed in Vegas, render to x264 using HappyOtterScripts or Voukoder which is still freeware. While Nvenc is faster, the quality is not comparable and should be avoided if you want a high quality output.

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

Former user wrote on 7/16/2020, 7:54 PM

If you want the best quality from OBS render to a lossless codec such as MagicYUV or UtVideo. Both are supported in Vegas.

I found UTVideo lagged in vegas. It's much worse than AVC. The bitrate is so high that you likely need an NVME ssd if used in regular operation or it could choke windows potentially and lag the system. Close to 1gig/s. It doesn't seem practical to use. I do know people that do use it, But they encode in UTVideo, then transcode to apple prores then edit that. That's a lot of messing about, but if you want the best it's an option

cadudesun wrote on 7/25/2020, 7:39 AM

Thank all of you very much for the continuous feedback about optimum OBS setups!

=> Ignoring the output quality, I'd like to take the opportunity to ask you what would be the most lightweight OBS setup (VEGAS friendly) that impacts as fell as possible the computer processing?

That's because in the current context doing a lot of virtual meetings (Zoom, TeamViewer, etc.) with webcam, and live using some software at same time, when I start screen-recording with OBS my system slows-down a lot.

Musicvid wrote on 7/25/2020, 8:21 AM

what would be the most lightweight OBS setup (VEGAS friendly) that impacts as fell as possible the computer processing?

In terms of what? Capture efficiency, timeline efficiency, system load, file size, editing quality, or delivery optimization? Note: these questions will have different answers.

I see we have a variety of opinions here, from an equally wide variety of experience. I encourage you to test all the options described, and find your own "lightweight" starting point. Note: larger source files generally handle better on the timeline, because they use less compression, which is a sensitive real-time operation.

Be sure and post back with your conclusions, as capturing Zoom is a relatively unexplored topic here.

cadudesun wrote on 7/25/2020, 9:04 AM

Thanks for the reply.

Actually I'm more concerned with the impact slowing down my system when recording with OBS in real time. I'm less concerned with editing later in Vegas. The image quality is secondary, since storing the "memory" of the meetings is the aim. In Vegas I will just perform rough cuts to remove useless chating.

Do you suggest any application to monitor my system and compare the different OBS setups impacting on the real time recording?

 

Musicvid wrote on 7/25/2020, 11:59 AM

I would test several recommended encoders using Windows resource meters. Lowest CPU utilization is the goal. I'll stick with my current recommendation for that purpose.

michael-harrison wrote on 7/26/2020, 12:52 PM
 

Be sure and post back with your conclusions, as capturing Zoom is a relatively unexplored topic here.

@Musicvid @cadudesun If you can avoid capturing *using* Zoom I would very highly recommend doing so. I've been dealing with zoom video for months and it's always going to be the worst quality you can possibly get since the recordings are always made after the video goes to the server and back.
 

System 1:

Windows 10
i9-10850K 10 Core
128.0G RAM
Nvidia RTX 3060 Studio driver [most likely latest]
Resolution        3840 x 2160 x 60 hertz
Video Memory 12G GDDR5

 

System 2:

Lenovo Yoga 720
Core i7-7700 2.8Ghz quad core, 8 logical
16G ram
Intel HD 630 gpu 1G vram
Nvidia GTX 1050 gpu 2G vram

 

Musicvid wrote on 7/26/2020, 1:04 PM

Translation: You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.