Thank you for your help. Two questions: The is no "full range" option for 8-bit, only for 32-bit. Are you saying not to use 32-bit, because that's the only option that provides full range that I can see? Also, I'm not sure how to adjust luminance. Is that done in color grading or somewhere else?

Sorry, your VP17 (just noticed) only has legacy 8 bit projects. Set your luminance to 16-235 using the Levels fx plugin; you can use this humorous article as a guide. Rendering 8 bit from a 32 bit project is fraught with pitfalls, especially using versions older than VP18. I won't go into them here, but there are some other interesting articles in my signature.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/pc-to-tv-levels-a-comedy-of-errors--107325/

BTW, thanks for an intelligent new-user question, a rarity around here at certain times of the year.

Thanks for the help. My concern is that if I'm using a LUT that changes the color from slog3 to a 709 color space, I want to make sure that I'm actually rendering the project in that 709 color space. And if I stick with legacy 8-bit on the project settings, I don't see how I can access the ability to render in 709 color space.

BTW, thanks for an intelligent new-user question, a rarity around here at certain times of the year.

And thanks for your help. Shooting in Slog3 10-bit color is a great way to not lose detail, but it can sure be confusing trying to get the best color possible in the editing process... I want to make sure my project settings, LUT settings, render settings, etc. are all accurate.

I want to make sure that I'm actually rendering the project in that 709 color space.

All the usual 8 bit YUV output (delivery) codecs are Rec 709 by standards definition. Is that what you are asking?

By the way, sRGB and REC 709 are exactly the same color gamut, only the white point varies ever-so-slightly.

I want to make sure my project settings, LUT settings, render settings, etc. are all accurate.

Accuracy is a reasonable expectation; expecting more in an 8 bit YUV output file from 10 bit source is not. Setting your luminance range properly to match the output color space is the most important thing. Really.

And no, color bit depth does not affect spatial detail, only color delineation (the number of distinct colors increases from 16 Million to 1 Billion (for 10 bit), which of course are lost in downsampling to 8 bit).

If you would like testing or recommendations, upload a short camera sample to Drive or Dropbox, not Youtube, and post the link here.

Thanks for clarifying that REC 709 and sRGB are basically the same thing. The specific LUT that I have to help grade my slog3 video is for 709; so knowing I don't have to change the project properties is a big help...since it takes a lot longer to render!

I did have one other question though regarding 10-bit video. Do I need to make any particular adjustment to project properties to take specify that I'm using 10-bit video in my project?? I was under the assumption--and perhaps I'm wrong--that all I had to do was specify 10-bit video at the time of rendering.

I just want to make sure that if I shot video in 10-bit, that it's not being downconverted to 8-bit as some point in the editing/rendering process.

Thanks again for all of your help.

You don't want to use a conversion LUT at less than full strength. Just brighten post conversion.

I'd use 32 bit video and render to 8 bit as your source is 10 bit. Take care with levels for luminance as it needs to be video levels at the end.

I did have one other question though regarding 10-bit video. Do I need to make any particular adjustment to project properties to take specify that I'm using 10-bit video in my project?? I was under the assumption--and perhaps I'm wrong--that all I had to do was specify 10-bit video at the time of rendering.

Another good question: You have the LUT; I don't think you don't want superfluous transforms or other funny stuff.

Being decidedly old-school Vegas, if you are rendering 8 bit for delivery, I would use 8 bit project setting with the proper luminance levels (I cannot emphasize this enough!). Only an 8 bit project setting will show you the proper 16-235 REC 709 (limited) output levels on the 0-255 RGB scale in the waveform, parade, or histogram , a critical area in which you have yet to express any concern....

To be clear, Vegas reads your source file's bit depth correctly without intervention; it is the output compressor (codec) that determines the delivery file's reported bit depth.

If you feel comfortable uploading that sample, I will be pleased to help you. Otherwise, we've talked long enough; go forth and make some really good mistakes!

I guess I'm trying to slay multiple dragons at once; and it's best to do things one at a time. While I am concerned about color, I'm also concerned about not losing highlights and details in my video which is why I am shooting in slog3 to begin with. Someone mentioned in this thread to NOT reduce the "strength" in the slog3 LUT that I'm using...which is something that I had been doing until now. I think by going back and moving the LUT back to 100%, it will handle the colors OK for now (I'll work more on them later).

That being said, I'm now focusing on luminance levels as per your suggestion. I'm getting comfortable with the waveform tool. It's very helpful especially considering what I'm trying to accomplish: achieving blacks as deep as possible, without sacrificing detail. I have an OLED screens that exhibit some level of banding with the grays; so finding the exact sweet spot in dark scenes of my videos is critical.

One of the videos I'm editing is a video I shot of one of the dark rides at Disneyland, with lots of dark scenes and occasional bright highlights. So it's tough to edit without having some parts of the video blown out because they're too bright, and then having other parts of the video where details fade into the background because I'm trying to eliminate grays. I need to make lots of cuts (with dissolves) to change brightness/contrast/etc from scene to scene and be able to have the video behave appropriately as I'm watching the waveform.

I've learned a lot today from our conservation. I will upload a sample when I get the video just right. Thanks again!

Rob, I knew you had the right instinct! Welcome to the discussions; feel free to share your results, and feel encouraged to design and run your own quantified tests when you have questions and educate us old-timers. Remember that in order for your rendered MP4 to play correctly from your legacy 8 bit project in VP17, you need to set your desired output levels within 16-235, not 0-255. Until then.

Here 'ya go. Notice the subtle greens in the tiles. Sony makes a good log LUT.

I will upload my results as soon as I finish.

As far as 10-bit goes... it looks like if I have video shot in 10-bit, and I select 10-bit in render settings, I get a better colored image than if I select 8-bit. I checked the gradient of colors in a blue sky, and it makes a huge difference. So--I think--I'm still able to take advantage of 10-bit color video using legacy 8-bit settings in Vegas.

Having said that, I downloaded a trial version of V19.0, and see that it DOES make a difference on the scope whether I'm in 8-bit full range or 8-bit legacy range. As you said, the output levels need to be narrower on the older version of Vegas. But I'm wondering what the real-life advantage is of having 8-bit full-range vs 8-bit legacy?

Rob, you may be overthinking. Of course a 10 bit render from 10 bit source will have less banding. If it didn't, I would be concerned. However, 8 bit is still the delivery format most widely used in 2022 because it is universally playable. The Vegas signal processing (project) pipeline is a different matter. If you have changed your mind, and now wish to deliver 10 bit, kindly start a separate thread for your inquiry. My responses here have all been specific to 8 bit output from your s-Log3 s-Gamut source, and as you can see directly above, it has been a productive investigation.

Now, since you seem interested in the reasons for having a more user friendly 8 bit project setting in VP18 and 19, the history is below. 8 bit full is WYSIWYG, 8 bit limited (legacy, as in your VP17} is not. You will need to become intimately studied in the processes outlined in my previous article in order to understand the full ramifications of this. Please read these notes carefully.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vp18-notes-on-the-8-bit-full-level-option--122749/

Now, I am going to consider my role here finished, at least until you have made and posted your own renders and experiments as I have, and you also have further questions regarding production practices, any theoretical considerations and intellectual gymnastics notwithstanding.

Best of luck, welcome to the forums, and I know that over time, you will become a valuable and consistent contributor to the discussions, that is if you develop into a producer and not another talker. Until then...

Here is a link to a video I've been working on. It's one of the dark rides at Disney.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/15co9nu7f1u6n5i/Pinocchio%27s%20Daring%20Journey%20A7S3.mp4?dl=0

Mind you, I'm not focusing on colors right now. I'm just trying to get a grip on how to grade for luminance, using the waveform scope that I'm starting to get familiar with.

Here's a breakdown of some of the video: From 0:00-0:10, it was shot with a Go-Pro, and was pretty contrasty and blown-out to begin with. There wasn't much I could do, besides trying to make sure my levels were between 0-100 on the luminance scope. From 0:10-0:20, and the rest of the video, I was using an a7siii shooting most in slog3--so I had much more wiggle room in post. However, you'll notice that some scenes have a lot of black to them. This is a conscious decision I made to take advantage of absolute black on an OLED screen, and stay away from very dark "grays" as these tend to not display properly on some OLED screens (banding issues with the grays, as has been widely discussed on the internet). For the rest of the video, I had to go scene by scene; trying to adjust brightness and contrast so as much of the light displayed in the waveform scope is between 0-100. FYI, I tended to place the bottom end at -1 or -2 on the scope, to achieve the blackness that I mentioned above. As you'll see in the video, there are some scenes where there's a lot of contrast, and I tried to adjust levels accordingly to find a proper balance between not losing details in the dark, and not losing details in the bright. The very last shot of the video was shot in s-cinetone as opposed to slog3, so it was harder to grade properly.

Thanks again for all of your feedback. I really appreciate it. Hopefully I'm not a nuisance; just trying to learn.