Slow rendering after CPU change

Komaryt wrote on 2/4/2022, 4:38 AM

Hello!
I have problem with my render options after I change my CPU.
Before I had Ryzen 5 2600 and render time was about 2:1 - but I was not worry about that because it was cheap CPU so it didn't bother me but now I change CPU to Ryzen 9 3900X and render time is the same as was on old CPU but 3900X is much stronger and faster, where it can go wrong?

When I edit movie 3900X is showing his strength and 4k footage (without any effects) is really smooth and doesn't have any lags but when I am rendering movie - which has only two effects used:
1. Color Grading
2. Sharpen
it render as long as old CPU. I add my all settings for render maybe there is something wrong with it. CPU usage is on 100% so where his power gone? On background I have opened only google chrome with ~10-15 sites + messenger app but it doesn't seems to slow down CPU that much.

I was trying to play with Preset options in Render settings but it doesn't speed up render too.
Thanks everyone for any solution!


Comments

RogerS wrote on 2/4/2022, 6:08 AM

I see a few issues here with your settings.

One- dynamic ram preview is too high. You've set it to 1/2 system ram. Try the default of 200MB or a smaller number like 1000MB. (for NVENC renders I would set it to 0MB and then put back to 200 to edit as it's known to have errors). You can see system ram utilization is at 92% which is much too high. Vegas may be out of ram and slowing down.

Second- you disabled GPU timeline acceleration in preferences/video. That means that an Fx like sharpening are on your CPU to deal with. As your CPU is at 100% you don't have any processing power to spare. The only reason to do this would be if you are getting glitches on your renders. Try reducing dynamic ram preview to 0 and leaving this one- but if you get errors you can keep GPU timeline acceleration disabled.

Third- something is very strange with file i/o. How is Intel QSV selectable as your decoder? You have an AMD CPU and your render options indicates you have an NVIDIA GPU so this is odd. I would try resetting Vegas.

Fourth- you are doing a NVENC render at variable bitrate but set maximum and average to be the same and a very high number for your project which isn't even HD. Just use the default values. Try 24,000,000 bps maximum /12,000,000 average.

Komaryt wrote on 2/4/2022, 6:32 AM

I see a few issues here with your settings.

One- dynamic ram preview is too high. You've set it to 1/2 system ram. Try the default of 200MB or a smaller number like 1000MB. (for NVENC renders I would set it to 0MB and then put back to 200 to edit as it's known to have errors). You can see system ram utilization is at 92% which is much too high. Vegas may be out of ram and slowing down.

Second- you disabled GPU timeline acceleration in preferences/video. That means that an Fx like sharpening are on your CPU to deal with. As your CPU is at 100% you don't have any processing power to spare. The only reason to do this would be if you are getting glitches on your renders. Try reducing dynamic ram preview to 0 and leaving this one- but if you get errors you can keep GPU timeline acceleration disabled.

Third- something is very strange with file i/o. How is Intel QSV selectable as your decoder? You have an AMD CPU and your render options indicates you have an NVIDIA GPU so this is odd. I would try resetting Vegas.

Fourth- you are doing a NVENC render at variable bitrate but set maximum and average to be the same and a very high number for your project which isn't even HD. Just use the default values. Try 24,000,000 bps maximum /12,000,000 average.

Thank you for advice, I want to reply why some things I set like that and yeah... some things are really strange but it works on old CPU :D

1. Dynamic RAM - old CPU wasn't able to smooth playback at some times specially when clips changed it likes to freeze and I saw what is going on 2-3 clips later so when I had that issue I was using ram preview and 200-1000mb was too low (small amount of seconds were rendered) so I changed it to 16000 and it was working pretty well (specially for edit)

2. Yeah... I disabled it because I couldn't even render when I had it turned on I always had either error at start of rendering either freezing rendering in random moments like I had 98% movie rendered and then render just freeze it was really frustrating so I fixed it by turning it off and after that I never had any issue with render.

3. Okay I will try reset. After I saw that too I changed it manually to AMD but it doesn't speed up.

4. I will try with changing average and maximum to not be the same but with bitrate it just works for me. I was playing with it and I wasn't happy with results which I had at lower bitrates - yes I know that my footage have max 30mbps and I am using higher bitrate but it's just works for me. I have decent video quality with this settings and this is the last thing which I want to change. I am using this for maybe 3 years now and never had complain that quality of my videos are bad etc.

RogerS wrote on 2/4/2022, 6:37 AM

For 1 you need to turn it down for rendering (or off if the rendered files have glitches). You can put it back to whatever you like for editing, but 1/2 system ram is too high even for that. You need to change it.

2. That's a known bug where dynamic ram preview and NVENC interact badly. It was fixed in VP 19. In VP 17 try setting dynamic ram preview to 0MB and keep this one.

3. I don't think your AMD CPU has a GPU for decoding. Your only choice should be NVDEC.

4. Try it. For better quality skip NVENC and go with a Mainconcept render, or do what I do and render to Voukoder using x264 (CPU only). It is slower but gives high quality files at reasonable file sizes.

Komaryt wrote on 2/4/2022, 7:07 AM

For 1 you need to turn it down for rendering (or off if the rendered files have glitches). You can put it back to whatever you like for editing, but 1/2 system ram is too high even for that. You need to change it.

2. That's a known bug where dynamic ram preview and NVENC interact badly. It was fixed in VP 19. In VP 17 try setting dynamic ram preview to 0MB and keep this one.

3. I don't think your AMD CPU has a GPU for decoding. Your only choice should be NVDEC.

4. Try it. For better quality skip NVENC and go with a Mainconcept render, or do what I do and render to Voukoder using x264 (CPU only). It is slower but gives high quality files at reasonable file sizes.

Ad.1 - Nah... Don't wanna change it always when I turn on Vegas, I will set to 1000 like you are saying
Ad.2 - Wow, good to know! I will wait for VP20 and see if they will add features which I want to have (which VP19 haven't) and then I will upgrade to it because now it was waste of money for me to go on VP19 even if they fix NVENC.
Ad.3 - Yeah! Thats good point, I forgot that it haven't GPU
Ad.4 - Okay I will try Mainconcept - I think I wouldn't try Voukoder if you are saying that it is slower because I want something which render pretty fast :D

For exaple friend of mine who have Ryzen 9 3900X is able to render wedding movie (about 90minutes like mine) in Edius and Premiere for 40-60minutes - thats so fast! Mine is rendering about 3 hours.

alifftudm95 wrote on 2/4/2022, 7:22 AM

I was planning to get Ryzen 9 3900X soon.

Voukoder, if you use the normal default settings, the render are actually pretty fast.

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RogerS wrote on 2/4/2022, 7:23 AM

1. If you get glitches with GPU on you need to turn it off. Yes it's annoying.

4. Voukoder isn't inherently slower. If set to the same settings it's actually faster than Mainconcept. It also can render through the GPU (NVENC). It's just that when I use it, I set it to do high quality renders.
What I mean by slower is that encoding using the CPU is always slower than the GPU, but if you spent days making a video why not wait a few minutes for a nicer looking final render?

If you want to see if your Vegas and system are working properly try this benchmarking project.

Re: the wedding movie, 2:1 using NVENC is doable for simpler edits. You're going to need GPU timeline acceleration on for the best times, though.

Reyfox wrote on 2/4/2022, 7:33 AM

I have the 3900X and an AMD RX480 graphics card along with 32GB of RAM. Most of the work I do is under 20 minutes. Usually less. Some have lots of VFX and titles, while others are "basic" in editing with minor corrections. I edit 1080 50P, UHD 4K 25/50P 10bit 422. I'll have music (Smartsound).

Rendering, almost always AMD VCE. I always get faster than "real time" rendering until the rendering hits VFX or Titles with motion (ether Vegas, Boris or NBFX). But rarely will my rendering get to 1:3. My Settings are basic with Dynamic RAM set to default. I use HOS Kwik Preview if I want see something on the timeline.

We compare what is fast, but forget about which are slow. I find Vegas somewhere in the middle. It's faster than Resolve, slower than Pinnacle Studio. If I am just doing minor work on a clip, my GPU gets 100% used during rendering with the CPU maybe 20-30% being used. Sometimes, the CPU will be heavily used and the GPU very little. It comes down to what I am doing with the clips.

You would have to compare the exact same project in Premiere and Edius to get an idea how long it takes to render. It has to be the same.

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Komaryt wrote on 2/4/2022, 9:15 AM

1. If you get glitches with GPU on you need to turn it off. Yes it's annoying.

4. Voukoder isn't inherently slower. If set to the same settings it's actually faster than Mainconcept. It also can render through the GPU (NVENC). It's just that when I use it, I set it to do high quality renders.
What I mean by slower is that encoding using the CPU is always slower than the GPU, but if you spent days making a video why not wait a few minutes for a nicer looking final render?

If you want to see if your Vegas and system are working properly try this benchmarking project.

Re: the wedding movie, 2:1 using NVENC is doable for simpler edits. You're going to need GPU timeline acceleration on for the best times, though.

I was planning to get Ryzen 9 3900X soon.

Voukoder, if you use the normal default settings, the render are actually pretty fast.

Yeah. Wow! I am rendering through Voukoder - now at Nvidia NVENC and this is 0.9:1 speed ratio. 95 minutes movie is rendering in 91-93minutes that's so awesome! I will try preset based only on CPU and I will see what results it will give.
Bitrates I set the same (high bitrates) like I was using inside Vegas render option. The best thing would be to render with CPU and GPU - that will be so awesome. Thanks everyone who spend his time on replying for this question.

RogerS wrote on 2/4/2022, 9:22 AM

You can render in different ways with Voukoder.

With x264 try a rate factor of 21 or so for a decent quality file. Keep the GPU on in preferences/video and you'll get the best of both worlds.

Musicvid wrote on 2/4/2022, 9:35 AM

but now I change CPU to Ryzen 9 3900X and render time is the same as was on old CPU but 3900X is much stronger and faster, where it can go wrong?

The only thing that your observation proves is that your CPU is not the system bottleneck. Every hardware, configuration, rendering pipeline, and filter, has its own bottleneck. You should remember from school that the flow in any physical system is only as fast as the narrowest point will allow. So if you choose to investigate, you have now ruled out the CPU as the limiting factor. Welcome to the forums, and good luck!

walter-i. wrote on 2/4/2022, 3:26 PM

..... and try to reschedule rendering for times when you have a nice dinner with your wife, play with your kids or grandkids, or just sleep.
That takes a lot of stress out of it and saves a lot of money.

Former user wrote on 2/4/2022, 8:07 PM

 

Yeah. Wow! I am rendering through Voukoder - now at Nvidia NVENC and this is 0.9:1 speed ratio. 95 minutes movie is rendering in 91-93minutes that's so awesome! I will try preset based only on CPU and I will see what results it will give.
 

NVENC pauses when using MagixAVC and MagixHEVC every 60 frames it encodes, this can cause the encode to take much longer than if it didn't pause. Using voukoder doesn't have this bug. This means the speed advantage you see with Voukoder NVENC isn't going to evident with CPU encoding because the bug is only with Internal Vegas NVENC. X264 encoding that Voukoder offers is higher quality than MagixAVC so there's still reason to use it even without speed improvements.

With a 3900x you may find it's perfectly reasonable to now encode in X264(software) rather than the lower quality NVENC, but 4K will still be a severe compromise and most would still use NVENC

 

RogerS wrote on 2/4/2022, 10:13 PM

Thanks for filling out the benchmark.

Looking at the result this system is underperforming significantly. This is the lowest score for such a CPU- its performance with an NVENC encode in HD is slower than my 4 year old laptop is with NVENC in UHD.

Other Ryzen 3900x and NVIDIA 20XX and 1080 cards are rendering FHD with NVENC in under a minute. (go to data/filter views and you can look by only NVENC encodes for example).

I think this huge drop performance is a combination of a project like this that has moving text and graphics and disabled hardware graphics acceleration. Dynamic ram preview doesn't make up the difference. You might also try the default # of rendering threads if you changed it and see if you can beat your times here.

Former user wrote on 2/4/2022, 11:19 PM

Thanks for filling out the benchmark.

Looking at the result this system is underperforming significantly. This is the lowest score for such a CPU- its performance with an NVENC encode in HD is slower than my 4 year old laptop is with NVENC in UHD.

I think this huge drop performance is a combination of a project like this that has moving text and graphics and disabled hardware graphics acceleration..

This project is using up to 50% of the processing power of a rtx3070, for that load to be shifted to less optimized CPU instead is going to make a huge difference. If stability and Vegas crashing is the problem. I'd start with disabling GPU decoding, the 3900x will have enough power to take up the slack. Not the case with HEVC, but that's a different story

 

Former user wrote on 2/5/2022, 12:25 AM

@RogerS Hi, can you remove the MSI from the start of his GPU in the results so it can be sorted correctly with the others GTX-1060. unless it has to be there for some reason? Ta 👍

@Komaryt Can you go to your icon at the top of this page - My Profile & fill in your Signature with your system specs, CPU, GPU, Windows & Vegas version it will then show at the bottom of your comments 👍

I looked at the results @RogerS posted, 0.382 playback in Region 1 & 2.53 render of the FHD, If those are your results with a Ryzen 9 3900X 12core CPU & a 6GB GTX1060 card it must be really hard to work, esp as Color Grading & Sharpen can both be a bit intensive on the system,

There's lots of suggestions here & you've mentioned 'it worked with old CPU', I personally would start afresh, forget your old CPU & for the moment put to one side the suggestions above, Reset Vegas to defaults, make sure your system Windows etc. is up to date & have the latest Studio graphics driver installed, get your GPU working so you don't have to have it switched Off in Vegas, using NVENC render with GPU off seems pointless to me, then start playing with the Vegas controls, one at a time & see which works & which doesn't,

If your GPU has a fan, make sure it's clean, if it's too old get rid of it & get a newer one that compliments you new CPU better, Google says 'The GeForce GTX 1060 6 GB was a performance-segment graphics card by NVIDIA, launched on July 19th, 2016.' there's a few people on the benchmark who have 1060's, they render 1.07mins - 1,12mins FHD but 2016 is a long time ago now & i think the key word in that Google quote might be was, 

Apart from having Dynamic Ram set quite high for the same reason as you for preview rendering, my Vegas is almost at default settings,

RogerS wrote on 2/5/2022, 12:43 AM

Sure Gid. I can do that and add it to the notes.

Komaryt wrote on 2/5/2022, 4:48 AM

The only thing that your observation proves is that your CPU is not the system bottleneck. Every hardware, configuration, rendering pipeline, and filter, has its own bottleneck.

@Musicvid
I know that my PC has bottleneck but I don't think that the bottleneck is so big that my render time on 3900X is the same like on Ryzen 5 2600 - that's no chance. I used bottleneck calculators and every calculator said that my bottleneck is on max 16,5% and GTX 1060 has only 5% more bottleneck than RTX 3070 which is so expensive (in 4k, the only graphic card which won't gave me bottleneck is RTX 2080Ti, lol)

@RogerS
yeah... that's why I created this post because I am out of mind why everything is that slow. I tried every my idea to make it faster and nothing works, there works only one thing - turning on GPU acc but I wanted to see how CPU is working by itself.
I made test again but this time with GPU Acc on. By first 4 replays everything was perfect - max fps: 5.836 the lowest: 2,896. After 4th replay preview drastically dropped to 0.8fps and after one more replay I had 0fps and red screen so I pause playback and Vegas freeze - that's why I stopped using GPU acc (2 or 3 years ago - I don't remember) because I had the same freezes and bugs. Then I started to render and after 4% I had error which was saying that I am out of memory (WTF) - I had only 1000MB on dynamic RAM preview so I changed it to 0 and somehow it works and render entire project. I updated new result - it's much faster but it is with GPU acc so I am not happy with it because I spent lot of money on new CPU and render speedup only when GPU acc is turned on. Okay I would be happy that my playback is really smooth (Preview -> Half) but I think it's not worth the money.

@Former user - signature done.
This result was without GPU Acceleration - only CPU. LOL - you made me realize that this graphic card is that old... I didn't realize that 5 years has passed that fast - but for now I don't have money to upgrade Graphic card and with situation on world its pointless to buy now graphic card (their prices are so high!) I have other things more needed to life than graphic card :( So I can live without it :D
Okay so... Without GPU Acceleration I am not able to render it faster so I hope that edit and render with GPU acc turned on will not freeze and crash Vegas - that's why I turned it off many years ago and I didn't touched it again.

RogerS wrote on 2/5/2022, 4:59 AM

That one difference made quite a change- congratulations! Your system is now performing like similar ones.

Until you decide to upgrade to VP 19 or VP 20 you need to set dynamic ram preview to 0 before rendering. It's a known bug. Red screens indicate a GPU error. Out of memory likely also refers to GPU memory. These things are related. Do install the latest NVIDIA Studio Driver if you haven't already. Your GPU is fine.

I don't know why you are not happy- your CPU can't replace a GPU. They both need to work together for best results. If you are having bugs with decoding (what media did you have issues with?) you can try to also disable the so4compound decoder. This is not really needed in newer versions of Vegas.

Former user wrote on 2/5/2022, 6:27 AM


This result was without GPU Acceleration - only CPU. LOL - you made me realize that this graphic card is that old... I didn't realize that 5 years has passed that fast - .

@Komaryt Yeah time flies by, it's almost 2 yrs since covid started & the first lockdown 😮

& yeah GPU's aren't cheap at the mo, nothing is, before i bought my 3090 i read a lot about how some editor makers were focusing more on the GPU & RAM doing the work because it's easier to upgrade those than the CPU, & the fitting PCIe for eg. is a bit more universal, you often don't need a special motherboard, so i got what i thought was the best GPU i could afford,

Komaryt wrote on 2/13/2022, 10:36 AM

Well...
I thought it will be end of this post but it's not.

I leave settings:
Dynamic Ram Preview - 0mb
Turned on GPU acceleration

And... after 5 days of editing movies I started to edit wedding movie where I had clips recorded in 100fps and then something strange started to going on. I couldn't preview this clips because after 1-2 seconds of playback the preview screen came into black and it stays like this. I was able to normal preview clips recorded in 25fps but not in 100fps - so I started to turning off GPU acc and make dynamic ram preview to 1000mb but nothing helped.

Today I wanted to render movie and I am not able to. When I start render by Vokuder (to use NVENC) it gets glitching and it blinks with black background. When I am rendering only with CPU (with Magix AVC preset) it works pretty well but rendering is so slow - slower than Ryzen 5 2600... It is youtube short clip and on Ryzen 5 2600 it was rendering - 45sec clip in 2-3minutes but now on Ryzen 9 3900 - 45sec clip 4-5 minutes - LOL.