Stuttering playback of H.265 10 bit 4K video footage

Markus-Trachsel wrote on 7/9/2022, 6:29 AM

Dear Members,

I would like to kindly ask if anybody of you is able to get a smooth video playback in the video preview window even at draft settings. I use H.265 10 Bit 4K video material from my Olympus O-M1 camera recorded with OM-Log.400. Every other player I have on my PC is able to playback the video material smoothly (windows media player, VCL player, irfanview and Davinci Resolve), but Vegas Pro 19 (or 18) is not able to playback the preview video smoothly even without applying any video events.

Can somebody confirm that smooth playback with H.265 10 bit video material is possible, because I am not getting it to work. Yes, I can convert the material to ProRes HQ and then it runs smoothly but at least to preview the video material in the first place it would be helpful if the timeline playback would be smooth.

Graphics acceleration is enabled on Video and file I/O.

I have an AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16-Core Processor running at 4.00 GHz with 64 GB of memory and a NVIDIA 3060 Ti 8 GB graphics card. All my files are on Samsung 980 PRO NVMe 2GB. So I don't see an immediate performance bottleneck.

Thank you so much for your kind advise.

With best regards,
Markus

Comments

RogerS wrote on 7/9/2022, 6:48 AM

You can try toggling legacy HEVC on and off in preferences, file i/o as well as hardware decoder to none. In general it doesn't perform well in Vegas at this time and you're best off with proxy files or converting to another format.

Former user wrote on 7/9/2022, 7:06 AM

@Markus-Trachsel Hi, this is 10bit 4k HEVC (H.265) it takes a couple of loop plays to reach full fps but yes it works,

There's a tool called MediaInfo, download it, it's quick & free https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo
After downloading, right click on the media in your Windows folder, open MediaInfo, choose Text from the View option, select all, copy & paste in a comment here or screen capture the MediaInfo window

There's a HEVC codec for Windows, don't know if it will help https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/hevc-video-extensions/9NMZLZ57R3T7

Or you could share a small sample file on Google drive etc & i'm sure people will try it n see 👍

PS. can you go to your icon at the top, click it - My Profile, & fill in your Signature with your Vegas version, Windows version & system specs, full name of CPU, GPU, & amount of RAM etc. this will then show at the bottom of the comments 👍thanks.

Markus-Trachsel wrote on 7/9/2022, 7:11 AM

Dear RogerS, Thank you very much. I tested all combinations and Legacy HEVC must be turned ON, otherwise it does hardly playback anything. But also File I/O Hardware decoder must be set to NVIDIA in order to get a descent performance and also Video is set to NVIDA, that gives the best performance I can achieve. But still it stutters a lot. Yes, converting to ProRes helps but it would be nice to at least preview the video clip smoothly in order to select the part to convert.

Markus-Trachsel wrote on 7/9/2022, 7:21 AM

@Markus-Trachsel Hi, this is 10bit 4k HEVC (H.265) it takes a couple of loop plays to reach full fps but yes it works,

Yes, that usually did work for other video material but in this case it does not help (I tried). The stuttering is persistant with all the H.265 10 bit clips. H.264 8 bit clips are played without significant stutter.

There's a tool called MediaInfo, download it, it's quick & free https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo
After downloading, right click on the media in your Windows folder, open MediaInfo, choose Text from the View option, select all, copy & paste in a comment here or screen capture the MediaInfo window

General
Complete name : E:\Video\Temp\B1010009.MOV
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2011.07 (qt )
File size : 80.7 MiB
Duration : 8 s 509 ms
Overall bit rate : 79.5 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2022-07-09 13:36:11
Tagged date : UTC 2022-07-09 13:36:11
TAGS : p"R

Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main 10@L5@High
Codec ID : hvc1
Codec ID/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration : 8 s 509 ms
Bit rate : 73.8 Mb/s
Width : 4 096 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 1.896
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.278
Stream size : 74.9 MiB (93%)
Language : Japanese
Encoded date : UTC 2022-07-09 13:36:11
Tagged date : UTC 2022-07-09 13:36:11
Color range : Full
Color primaries : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics : BT.2020 (10-bit)
Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant
Menus : 0
Codec configuration box : hvcC

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : sowt
Duration : 8 s 508 ms
Source duration : 8 s 520 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.56 MiB (2%)
Source stream size : 1.56 MiB (2%)
Language : Japanese
Encoded date : UTC 2022-07-09 13:36:11
Tagged date : UTC 2022-07-09 13:36:11

Other
ID : 3
Type : Time code
Format : QuickTime TC
Duration : 8 s 509 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame : 02:42:54;16
Time code of last frame : 02:43:03;02
Time code, striped : Yes
Language : Japanese
Encoded date : UTC 2022-07-09 13:36:11
Tagged date : UTC 2022-07-09 13:36:11

I follow up on the other suggestions immediately.

Thank you very much and best regards,

Markus

RogerS wrote on 7/9/2022, 7:35 AM

Since it's 10-bit 4:2:0 it's at least possible for GPU decoders to play it back. There are no additional settings in Vegas to try that I am aware of.

In addition to transcoding to Quicktime, you can make proxies in Vegas- right click on media and "create proxy file."

Maybe the next version of Vegas will improve HEVC decoding. Until then I'm standardizing on AVC.

Markus-Trachsel wrote on 7/9/2022, 7:46 AM

Since it's 10-bit 4:2:0 it's at least possible for GPU decoders to play it back. There are no additional settings in Vegas to try that I am aware of.

Thank you, yes, that is my understanding too.

In addition to transcoding to Quicktime, you can make proxies in Vegas- right click on media and "create proxy file."

Yes, that is possible, but I would rather prefer not to do it (very low quality), but it's definitely an option. I have to try it out what is better, ProRes or Proxy.

Maybe the next version of Vegas will improve HEVC decoding. Until then I'm standardizing on AVC.

That would be very much appreciated if HEVC would be better supported.

Thank you very much and best regards,
Markus

RogerS wrote on 7/9/2022, 7:50 AM

For proxy you can see it fairly well in full motion at preview/full. Then when you switch back to best/full (or good) you can see the original file, which can be handy for precision work like color grading. Hope you find a workflow that works well for you.

Take care,
Roger

Former user wrote on 7/9/2022, 8:16 AM

@Markus-Trachsel Got to ask, i presume your GPU drivers are to date Studio driver 516.59

I use Geforce Experience to keep up to date https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/geforce-experience/

PS i had Legacy HEVC on in File I/O. it's on by default, i just ignore it or turn it off because as Roger says i stick to AVC, but i reset Vegas a short while ago & it got switched back on by default, Just turned it off & 10bit HEVC plays full fps almost instantly, your file isn't my file & is proper 4k so might play differently 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️👍

Former user wrote on 7/9/2022, 8:23 AM

@Markus-Trachsel Would you share a file, film 10seconds of something you don't care about & put it on Google drive or somewhere n share the link, i'm curious now?

Yelandkeil wrote on 7/9/2022, 8:51 AM

Be aware what you're shooting: true 4K30p-HDR10. Do you need it at the moment or prepare it for coming time?

In my FUHD-60p project such material plays well in full speed by Good/Half preview, turned into HDR10-modus, I get ca. 35fps.

Potential weakness of your HW: 1, the RTX3060Ti is a good card, but a good basic card; 2, your overcharged 2TB-SSD - you didn't mention a second storage media.

He's a penny pincher, never gives you one cent more than you paid.

Musicvid wrote on 7/9/2022, 9:27 AM

Every other player I have on my PC is able to playback the video material smoothly

Vegas Preview is not a player in the normal sense.

Players such as you named decode directly from the compressed file, so they may handle only one-tenth the bits per second as Vegas preview.

Vegas must unpack the compressed file to raw bits in order to work on them. In order to do so, it uses memory buffers. When available RAM is full, the bit pool spills over into virtual memory on your hard disk and this is where the slowdown occurs, straining your system to keep up with the demands of realtime playback.

Vegas uses a different proxy system than Premiere and a few other editors. Instead of constantly churning away making temporary files in the background while you edit, Vegas does it all at once, and these are what is used for smooth preview; they stand in for the real thing until you render.

I don't know why Vegas isn't automatically creating proxy files when you introduce your camera footage, which is hard to decode in realtime. Maybe resetting Vegas will help. You can build the proxies manually by Right-Clicking on the Media and "Create Video Proxy." Then just be patient until the process completes and you start editing. The preview should now be purring unless you have added a lot of timeline effects or messed with the project.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-can-i-reset-vegas-pro-to-default-settings--104646/

Note: your source video is generic 10 bit BT 2020/709 format. It is not HDR 10.

Markus-Trachsel wrote on 7/9/2022, 10:54 AM

Every other player I have on my PC is able to playback the video material smoothly

Vegas Preview is not a player in the normal sense.

Players such as you named decode directly from the compressed file, so they may handle only one-tenth the bits per second as Vegas preview.

Thank you very much for this in-depth explenation. This explains a lot. Funny that my computer is ALMOST capable of running it smoothly, but just not quite. Then I will go with either proxy or ProResHQ, depending on the situation. My problem is that I have thousands of clips when we come back from our wildlife safari trip. So it would have been very nice just to preview them smoothly BEFORE making proxy or ProRes. Maybe it would be a nice feature if VegasPro could bypass the conversion to RAW as you described it UNTIL some effects are applied. Because as long as there is nothing to do/add to the clip, why undergo the hassle of decoding it the hard way? But probabely this has its reasons.

Thank you very much and best regards,
Markus

Former user wrote on 7/9/2022, 11:01 AM

@Markus-Trachsel Hi, I'd still like a sample please?

PS your pc should be plenty powerful enough for any kind of media 🤔😉🤷‍♂️

Markus-Trachsel wrote on 7/9/2022, 11:13 AM

@Markus-Trachsel Hi, I'd still like a sample please?

PS your pc should be plenty powerful enough for any kind of media 🤔😉🤷‍♂️

Agreed, I will prepare a suitable sample file, please give me a moment. Yes, I am very curious to see how it plays on other users platforms.

Thank you very much and best regards,
Markus

Musicvid wrote on 7/9/2022, 1:57 PM

You also didn't share your project properties, timeline fx, etc.: when you upload your clip to Drive or Dropbox (not Youtube), give us the rest of the information in Section C here, please.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/important-information-required-to-help-you--110457/

Markus-Trachsel wrote on 7/9/2022, 2:35 PM

You also didn't share your project properties, timeline fx, etc.: when you upload your clip to Drive or Dropbox (not Youtube), give us the rest of the information in Section C here, please.

Here is the download link to a 5 Sec. Clip (60 MB):

https://filesender.switch.ch/filesender2/download.php?token=b0698a28-75dc-4c1e-8512-290e2c30e4fa&files_ids=191604

Section C:

Vegas Pro 18 Build 527 (I also use Vegas Pro 19 with the latest build but it keeps crashing constantly with 10 bit footage, so I do not use it at the time, but it is exactly the same performance wise. No improvement noticable)

GPU-Acceleration: NVIDIA
Hardware Decoder: NVIDIA
MKV-Reader: OFF

Important: I tried all combinations and that one is the best. MKV-Reader did not do anything. Turning Hardware acceleration OFF made everything much worse.

I usually use the 4K setting, but I also tried the FullHD setting. It does not make a difference when previewing the video.

With best regards,
Markus

j-v wrote on 7/9/2022, 3:12 PM

Your file played smooth in preview of VPro 19 latest build on laptop from signature with all settings on default, look

Former user wrote on 7/9/2022, 3:14 PM

@Markus-Trachsel Thanks n Ooo my pc doesn't like that, Legacy HEVC off, low fps & very little happening on the Taskmanager, I know you don't want to have to do proxy so i'll get back to you, gotta go out

PS had to turn Legacy HEVC on, yep like @j-v it played very well

Musicvid wrote on 7/9/2022, 3:17 PM

Markus, before going any further, pease read the FAQs, especially #22.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-faqs-and-troubleshooting-guides--104787/

Please Match your Project Properties to your Source Media.

This is the most important factor in timeline preview performance, period.

Then set your Preview window to Preview/Auto.

You "should" have been prompted to do this when you introduced your media. I have no explanation why you were not prompted to do so.

But in any event, right-click on the Match Media Icon in the Project settings, and choose your input file, so the properties will match. Then make a Proxy if your preview performance does not meet your expectations.

Welcome to the forum, and good luck!

Yelandkeil wrote on 7/9/2022, 3:19 PM

In my FUHD-60p project such material plays well in full speed by Good/Half preview, turned into HDR10-modus, I get ca. 35fps.

As expected, if not better.

Markus-Trachsel wrote on 7/9/2022, 3:44 PM

Markus, before going any further, pease read the FAQs, especially #22.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-faqs-and-troubleshooting-guides--104787/

Please Match your Project Properties to your Source Media.

I did, did not make any difference. Also note that normally I am using C4K footage (4096) for my 4K projects (3840) and crop it down. So matching the projec to source media is not an option. Apperantly others are able to playback my file smoothly. Now I just wonder what is wrong with my system. No idea whatsoever,

Yelandkeil wrote on 7/9/2022, 4:03 PM

This is my FileIO, ever tried so?

j-v wrote on 7/9/2022, 4:03 PM

@Markus-Trachsel
Can you show a screenshot from the result after you selected Help/Check for Driver Updates?

Markus-Trachsel wrote on 7/9/2022, 4:05 PM

Can you show a screenshot from the result after you selected Help/Check for Driver Updates?

Is up to date.