SuperSlow 4k, but nice and fast 2.7k rendering? Vegas 18

8500rpm wrote on 3/24/2021, 8:10 AM

Up until now, I have rendered source material that has been 1080p. Been very happy with performance both on Vegas 14 and now Vegas 18.

So I started to film in 4k lately, and sh*t, the performance hit it took in Vegas 18. It's not rendering of basic clips, but transitions. If I take a 10sec clip, cut in, remove some in the middle, merge them (i.e slide each 4sec clip over each other so I get a cross transition) the rendering of this part (transition) slows to 1-2fps.

So... I thought, wow, what a difference between 4k and 1080p, so I tried to film in 2.7k, and guess what, a nice 40-100fps even during transitions! Basically no difference from 1080p.

Now, maybe this is logical, but seems weird, going from 1080p to 2.7k no difference, but 2.7k -> 4k a huge huge pretty much unusuable difference.

 

Is this a 4k Vegas bugg? or is it just basic logic of more data to process?

 

My computer is no slouch for an amateur, Ryzen 3800, 32Gb, fast Ram, Geforce Gtx1070Ti, NVMe disks, separate source file disc, render disc and system disc, all on NVMe.

 

What's your verdict? ( I will just film 2.7k right now, 4k is unuseable and 2.7k gives a bit more detail to play with at least out of my camera)

 

Comments

RogerS wrote on 3/24/2021, 8:19 AM

Yes, multiple 4K clips is a lot more data to process.

For preview, did you change preview quality to preview/auto?
For rendering if you are talking about a drop in framerate, how does that make the render unusable? It just adds a few seconds to the total render time.

8500rpm wrote on 3/24/2021, 8:29 AM

Yes, it is more data, but it feels like not a gradual decrease, but a brutal drop in performance. Regarding rendering why it makes a different is that if I say have a 5min clip with maybe 10 transitions, then rendering this clip the rendering will basically come to a halt 10 times, instead of just blazing through like with 2.7k.... .. but yes, it works, I can go grab lunch or something ;)

I was just surprise of the huge difference. I would have expected a say 25% decrease from 1080p -> 2.7k and then again 50-75% decrease from 2.7k - 4k, but now I see basically no decrease 1080p -> 2.7k and about 99% decrease 2.7k - 4k.

 

It's also comes to halt in preview, but I can live with that... and I go for lunch during render, but just saying, 2.7k super fast, 4k super slow.. and I cannot see why we see no linearity from 1080p... it's like there is an invisible cliff after 2.7k where all communication just stops in the computer ;)

michael-harrison wrote on 3/24/2021, 8:40 AM

Post mediainfo for the two types of clips, 2.7 and 4k. I'll bet you $1 the codec is contributing to the slowdown.

Also, have you tried using a format intended for editing, such as prores?

System 1:

Windows 10
i9-10850K 10 Core
128.0G RAM
Nvidia RTX 3060 Studio driver [most likely latest]
Resolution        3840 x 2160 x 60 hertz
Video Memory 12G GDDR5

 

System 2:

Lenovo Yoga 720
Core i7-7700 2.8Ghz quad core, 8 logical
16G ram
Intel HD 630 gpu 1G vram
Nvidia GTX 1050 gpu 2G vram

 

RogerS wrote on 3/24/2021, 8:40 AM

Perhaps share a screenshot of your render settings. Does the media, project and render framerate match?

What is the source media? DJI or GoPro?

Are you using the NVIDIA Studio driver?

8500rpm wrote on 3/24/2021, 8:46 AM

Will share, on laptop now, but later today. Thanks for showing interest :)

3POINT wrote on 3/24/2021, 9:34 AM

When footage is GoPro than 4k is HEVC and 2k7 is AVC.

8500rpm wrote on 3/24/2021, 10:14 AM

Ok, so I did the following test.

Not super exact, but difference is so huge so I think it's ok.

I filmed three clips, 10seconds each with a GoPro Hero 9

10secs 1080p

10secs 2.7k

10secs 4k

Then I cut a second between 2-3secs and 6-7secs in each clip and merged these with a 0.2sec transition. I.e each clip became shorter by approx 2secs and had 2*20sec transition.

Project settings I let Vegas set to 'first clip added to timeline'

Results rending time (attaching screenshots also)

1080p: 7secs, 43fps avg

2.7k: 8secs 41fps avg

4k: 1min 23sec 4fps avg

 

NOTE! I'm rendering to 1080p

 

 

Musicvid wrote on 3/24/2021, 10:30 AM

4K has four times as many pixels as 1080p.

But your processor is not running four times faster. In fact, it probably hit a plateau between the 2.7K and the 4K loads.

Numbers look entirely reasonable (and fast) to me. What about them is bothering you?

Reyfox wrote on 3/24/2021, 10:34 AM

Can you upload a sample of the 4K clip to the cloud?

Newbie😁

Vegas Pro 22 (VP18-21 also installed)

Win 11 Pro always updated

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16 cores / 32 threads

32GB DDR4 3200

Sapphire RX6700XT 12GB Driver: 25.5.1

Gigabyte X570 Elite Motherboard

Panasonic G9, G7, FZ300

j-v wrote on 3/24/2021, 10:42 AM

@8500rpm
Are in your test all the same projectsettings or is the 4K file played and rendered in a 4K project to a FHD file?
And mind this

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 24H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
566.14 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 576.02 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Vegas software: VP 10 to 22 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

8500rpm wrote on 3/24/2021, 11:05 AM

4K has four times as many pixels as 1080p.

But your processor is not running four times faster. In fact, it probably hit a plateau between the 2.7K and the 4K loads.

Numbers look entirely reasonable (and fast) to me. What about them is bothering you?

 

I agree Mr Musicvid, I am also looking for the plateau if it's not a bug, since there must be a plateau as the difference between 1080p and 2.7k is pretty much non existent. Somewhere between 2.7 and 4k there must be a wall... the thing is, computers won't become 2x faster in 2years, which mean, rendering 4k will still 2years from now according to my tests be way way way way slower than 2.7k :(

AND, yes, I am super happy with my (FAST) numbers in 1080p and 2.7k...

 

 

8500rpm wrote on 3/24/2021, 11:07 AM

@8500rpm
Are in your test all the same projectsettings or is the 4K file played and rendered in a 4K project to a FHD file?
And mind this

I'm starting Vegas over for each test... and after import of clip I let Vegas set 'projects settings to according to first clip' or whatever it asks when dragging the first clip to timeline. So thereafter the projects settings should be as original clip.

 

8500rpm wrote on 3/24/2021, 11:08 AM

Can you upload a sample of the 4K clip to the cloud?

I can upload another clip, with same camera, which is more 'anonymous' :) (to the cloud), what do you mean, this forum or a dropbox share or similar?

j-v wrote on 3/24/2021, 11:27 AM

I'm starting Vegas over for each test... and after import of clip I let Vegas set 'projects settings to according to first clip' or whatever it asks when dragging the first clip to timeline. So thereafter the projects settings should be as original clip.

So try, if your goal is FHD (1920x1080 pixels), to start the project with that projectsetting, because it is not needed and costs very much more processing with a higher setting than needed.

 

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 24H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
566.14 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 576.02 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Vegas software: VP 10 to 22 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

Musicvid wrote on 3/24/2021, 11:58 AM

rendering 4k will still 2years from now according to my tests be way way way way slower than 2.7k 

All else being equal, that is a reasonable statement. Welcome to the forums.

RogerS wrote on 3/24/2021, 7:48 PM

Dropbox or Google Drive works for an upload.