VEGAS 15 - Key framed text won't stop moving around!

EonofAeon wrote on 1/17/2021, 12:49 AM

To make a long story short, on and off for a few months now I've tried to seriously teach myself video editing, to the best ability that I can muster for self teaching.

Which I must admit has not been the easiest thing, as many aspects of Video Editing are either not readily apparently or inherently hidden (My first 3 minute video had individual files for each part of subtitling, for example, instead of animated keyframes! It had a LOT of 'text file' media generators in the bin...)

But I have run into a new snag, one I cannot seem to fix on my own; now that I have moved to key-frames and animating text to remove the majority of files in play for subtitling...my subtitles won't sit still!

https://imgur.com/a/RvXVTP6 This provides but one example. And it gets more off-set in the third media generation for my caption track, which was made today in a final attempt to self fix/diagnose the problem.
That third image is the entire existence of my timeline;
All caption tracks below "Eon" are freshly recreated and blank, with nothing in them at present. No keyframe activations, no keyframes present, no text.
The dark blue is a video overlay of a jontron greenscreen for memery.
The 2 reds are the audio from said memery and the gameplay footage.
The turquoise is the audio from gameplay footage.

That means at present, Lexi/Bremaine/Moonie/Opty/Zakk/JAJAJA are all COMPLETELY BLANK tracks with no text, no keyframes, nothing. And the 'meme clip' only exists at that one spot with the volume adjustment marks.
That third file on my Caption track has 2 keyframes of text and 2 keyframes to remove said text. And they are even more off-center of where my Location coordinates are than the keyframes in the second file!

All of the text in my first caption (aka 'Eon Monologue 1') stay at the coordinates. Through restarts, saves, constant replays, and even editing coordinate information. The others will stay on-point for 1 or 2 replays after manually editing their locations only to immediately go off-center.

I just want to caption my video, but I'm honestly at a loss as to how to caption 6-7 voices in a video without having multiple captioning files, especially when I can't even get the captions to follow the coordinates for the first person in the video; myself!

Comments

Jack S wrote on 1/17/2021, 5:02 AM

@EonofAeon Your basic problem is that the two text strings should be in the same position on the display, right?

I've just tried to reproduce this in a simple test and I can't. See below

I can't understand why your second text string is offset like that.
If you're using one Titles & Text generated media for the two captions, why have you got 3 on track one?

Any chance of uploading your project so we can have a better look?

EonofAeon wrote on 1/17/2021, 1:11 PM

I was using 3; One for each monologue and discussion period, however long or short they were. And sure, I can upload it!

As for why; I wasn't sure how it'd react to me trying to change the settings back and forth with presets, even if it was being animated. I had already had one person tell me if I dragged the same media generator file onto the timeline multiple times, each drag would be independently editable from each other (Which wasn't true lol)

Like I said; Kinda just winging it and learning as I go!

Pre Post Edit - Uh...it won't let me upload the project file here...did you want me to try and upload the entire 20-25~ minute render of the unfinished project...?

Jack S wrote on 1/18/2021, 4:53 AM

@EonofAeon I had already had one person tell me if I dragged the same media generator file onto the timeline multiple times, each drag would be independently editable from each other (Which wasn't true lol)

Each event placed on the timeline from the preset panel will be independently configurable, so I don't know what you're doing there.

did you want me to try and upload the entire 20-25~ minute render of the unfinished project...?

No, it has to be the project file (.veg), and we only need the part of the project file that's giving trouble.
If you don't know how to do that, open up a second instance of Vegas Pro then copy the offending section and paste it into the second instance. Then upload it to a file sharing platform such as Google Drive or Dropbox.
I can then download it and have a look.

EonofAeon wrote on 1/18/2021, 5:07 AM

Each event placed on the timeline from the preset panel will be independently configurable, so I don't know what you're doing there.

Nonono, I know each instance of "Sample Text" (Default) TITLES AND TEXT Media Generator dragged onto the timeline will be its own independent thing. What I meant was someone told me if I made one, say in this instance my "Eon Monologue 1", and I kept it blank;
They said that each independent drag of it from the Bin to Timeline would become its own instance and would be independently editable.
It didn't make sense to me, cause even if its multiple pulls its still of the same root "file"/"media generation", and I had already in the past pulled the same audio and video files down for repeat use within a single project and they weren't all independent, but I gave it a go to satisfy their attempts to help.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pkzI08BcFbwhXRf2yEnA8iS6Sk32mO8U/view?usp=sharing I BELIEVE this is the correctly done way to do what you said?

Jack S wrote on 1/18/2021, 5:16 AM

@EonofAeon Ah, I see. Yes, you're right. An event stored in a bin is a unique event. If you pull it down multiple times, you're effectively creating copies of that event that reference the original event.

Thanks for the upload. I'll have a look and see if I can figure out what's going on.

Jack S wrote on 1/18/2021, 6:05 AM

@EonofAeon I don't see anything wrong. I've stepped through the keyframes on each of the T&T media events and the text boxes are all located where the Location and Anchor Point parameters point to.
See the screen recording below.

The only thing I can suggest is to start from scratch on a new project with just the T&T media events and check again.

Jack S wrote on 1/18/2021, 6:29 AM

@EonofAeon Just a thought. Are your graphics card drivers up to date?

EonofAeon wrote on 1/18/2021, 11:49 AM

I started from scratch on a new project and copied over the T&T media (I presume that's what you mean?), had the preview quality set to best (Quarter) and had it play within the preview window of Vegas.
Still jumped around.

However...On a hunch, I tried changing the monitor it displays on.
I have a 1080 turned vertical and two horizontal 1080p monitors, going from left to right.
And I usually have Vegas on the third, and Half or Best external previews running on my main.
The preview was set to Best (Quarter) with preview on External Device, on the 1080p vertical, so lots of empty black space on top and below and....the text stayed put! All three T&Ts keyframes remained in place despite multiple jump throughs of the keyframes....but the second I tried to actually play the preview, the text was way off center even for the first T&T. I'm honestly at a total loss....

Comparing to your video, It almost seems like my text is not listening to anchor points or is anchoring the bottom right instead of top left, if not another issue. Out of curiosity, how did you enable seeing the text box in the render?

And I'm not 100% up to date on drivers, due to the fact that as a gamer, updating to absolute latest drivers can be a roll of the dice for stability/playability on certain games. I can certianly try using DDU to clean wipe drivers n reinstall newer ones, if you think it might help.

Jack S wrote on 1/19/2021, 8:33 AM

@EonofAeon Out of curiosity, how did you enable seeing the text box in the render?

I didn't render it. What you see is me playing the timeline and capturing it on my second monitor, which has the preview window. The text boxes show when the media generator properties box is open.

Regarding drivers. The clue here is that when you stepped through the keyframes, the text behaved as I saw it. When you played it, it didn't. I don't know what graphics card you have, but if it's a NVIDIA, it's recommended that you install the Studio driver, not the Game Ready driver.
Try disabling 'GPU acceleration of video processing' in Options/Preferences/Video and see if that makes any difference. If this fixes it, chances are that your graphics driver is out of date.

EDIT - By the way. When you have a problem, it would help contributors of this forum if you fill in your user profile with details of your system. Processor, memory, graphics card(s), Vegas Pro version number and build number, etc. You get the picture 🙂.

EonofAeon wrote on 1/31/2021, 10:22 PM

I don't recall it showing those gray lines or corner boxes when I had properties box open.

Even when I manually step through keyframes, it still is offset. Its just that sometimes, it'll behave 'correctly' for one or two keyframe cycles of manually hopping, but it always returns to being offcenter.

But in light of suggestions, I will try reinstalling drivers and giving it ago (I don't use Game Reader drivers anyway usually, too unstable in my experience)

I wasn't sure where to provide specs and didn't want to just bloat my profile page or the opening post, but I can provide specs here;

OS -
Win10 64 bit
CPU -
Ryzen 5 3600
RAM -
16 GB DDR4 3200
Mobo -
B450 TOMAHAWK
GPU -
4 GB RTX 2070
GPU Driver -
452.06
Monitors -
Dell P2417H (Left vertical)
MSI G241 (Center/Main)
ASUS VG279 (Right Landscape)
Storage -
1 GB Samsung HD 103SJ (SATA)
2 GB Seagate ST2000DM006-2DM164 (SATA)
2 GB Seagate ST2000DM008-2FR102 (SATA)
1 GB Samsung HD 103SJ (SATA)
250 GB Samsung SSD 850 EVO

Apologies for super delayed response, had to do some things for work over last week and was a bit too busy. Will edit with update if a total GPU flush via DDU and a new reinstall of a studio ready driver helps.

EDIT - So I used DDU to totally flush GPU driver and all settings, and updated to STUDIO version 461.4. And just in case, if it wasn't clear, I'm on VEGAS version 15. I also own Version 14, but I learned that things with variable frame/bitrates (like shadowplay recordings n a few other types of video files) did NOT play nice on 14....

And in case, I also tried setting GPU Acceleration to Off.

It did nothing.

EDIT 2 - Out of curiosity, I tried opening up the 2nd media generator. As I said prior, it remains first; the first media generator "Eon Monologue 1" remains in place. "Eon Meeting 1" continues to bug out. I tried manually changing location from 0.76 to 0.75 for the vertical location, and then back to 0.76. That seemed to fix and adjust all of them properly when jumping through keyframe by keyframe....and then I saved, closed, restarted, and...instead of moving up and to the left, now the text is jumping down and to the right.

I am at a total loss....I can try seeing if just sitting it all on one single media generator file will be workable, but its going to involve me changing more settings back n forth between keyframes, so I can't help but wonder if thats the most efficient and/or stable option available to me...

Jack S wrote on 2/1/2021, 10:56 AM

@EonofAeon I don't recall it showing those gray lines or corner boxes when I had properties box open.

The grey lines and corner boxes make up the text box. The box is always there when the properties dialog is open and allows it to be dragged into position by the mouse.

I wasn't sure where to provide specs and didn't want to just bloat my profile page or the opening post

Don't worry about bloating your profile page, that's where it's intended to enter any details that would be useful to others. It means that, if someone needs to refer to your system, say, then all the info is in one place.

As for your problem. I'm stumped. As I said, I can't reproduce your symptoms.
Have you thought about having one media event for each text string, instead of keyframing multiple ones in one event? I know that your method should work, but if needs must and it saves time, why not try?

EonofAeon wrote on 8/24/2021, 3:59 PM

Not sure what policy is on bumping/necro-ing threads, so apologies if this is "not allowed".

I had to put video editing on hold for a number of months due to job needs. Got back to it today.

And I think Jack misunderstood my original point, I just realized by his last post and I misunderstood him.

My original timeline had one media event for each text string. I had maybe 30-40% of the video subtitled and had almost 80 text/media events.

So today, I tried keyframing the text. One media event per person's captions; 6 total. I got about 10-20% through the first persons dialogue (Mine) and saved the project and closed VEGAS. I re-opened a few hours later...and the text is mis-aligned once again.

I have ONE media event on ONE track here, BY ITSELF....and all the text has now shifted up and to the left...I'm at a loss, and starting to get frustrated.

Musicvid wrote on 8/24/2021, 4:17 PM

Delete your unwanted keyframes.

Lock the Padlock.

Put keyframes where you want them manually.

Its automatic keyframes that are messing it up.

EonofAeon wrote on 8/24/2021, 4:42 PM

I have no unwanted keyframes. I've been going through the video seconds at a time, manually marking start and end to keyframes with the relevant text captioning.

Not sure about any padlock stuff tho....does this mean I'd have to delete my entire existing media events and restart from scratch for this Padlock business?

Musicvid wrote on 8/24/2021, 8:27 PM

Maybe this will help; they've worked basically the same for a long time.

Also, type "Keyframe Animation" into Vegas Help.

EonofAeon wrote on 8/25/2021, 3:54 AM

https://imgur.com/a/NQV158F

Yes, that's how I have been key-framing.

This gallery shows first my keyframes done.

Second, a few examples. The first and third pictures are where the text SHOULD be;
Scale 0.4
Location 0.20, 0.81
Anchor Point Top Left

ALL keyframes have that location for the red text. ALL of them. So why is the text in the 2nd image at a different location?
And this happens constantly. Every time I boot up VEGAS, or after I start pausing and playing and pausing and replaying footage (as you do when testing out how your work looks in actual video editing), the text starts moving. Its not always the same text, and its not even necessarily all at once.

If they're all at 0.4 scale, top left anchor, and 0.20,0.81 location....WHY are they moving around?!

bvideo wrote on 8/25/2021, 12:10 PM

@EonofAeon In the first image of your post, I see the "mask" line of keyframes is selected instead of titles and text. I did not read the whole thread, so I don't know if that's an issue for you...