I tried this render with an HVEC, but that didn't run

General
Complete name                            : D:\films\Steve-solo\Miragenie\Renders\Sub-renders\Palace-fractal-Part1.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/mp41)
File size                                : 421 MiB
Duration                                 : 13 s 378 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 264 Mb/s
Writing application                      : Voukoder (VEGAS)

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L6@Main
Codec ID                                 : hev1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 13 s 334 ms
Bit rate                                 : 265 Mb/s
Width                                    : 8 192 pixels
Height                                   : 4 096 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 2.000
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 30.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.263
Stream size                              : 421 MiB (100%)
Writing library                          : x265 3.4+2-g02d2f496c:[Windows][MSVC 1916][64 bit] 8bit+10bit+12bit
Encoding settings                        : cpuid=1111039 / frame-threads=4 / numa-pools=16 / wpp / no-pmode / no-pme / no-psnr / no-ssim / log-level=2 / input-csp=1 / input-res=8192x4096 / interlace=0 / total-frames=0 / level-idc=0 / high-tier=1 / uhd-bd=0 / ref=3 / no-allow-non-conformance / no-repeat-headers / annexb / no-aud / no-hrd / info / hash=0 / no-temporal-layers / open-gop / min-keyint=25 / keyint=250 / gop-lookahead=0 / bframes=4 / b-adapt=2 / b-pyramid / bframe-bias=0 / rc-lookahead=20 / lookahead-slices=8 / scenecut=40 / hist-scenecut=0 / radl=0 / no-splice / no-intra-refresh / ctu=64 / min-cu-size=8 / no-rect / no-amp / max-tu-size=32 / tu-inter-depth=1 / tu-intra-depth=1 / limit-tu=0 / rdoq-level=0 / dynamic-rd=0.00 / no-ssim-rd / signhide / no-tskip / nr-intra=0 / nr-inter=0 / no-constrained-intra / strong-intra-smoothing / max-merge=3 / limit-refs=1 / no-limit-modes / me=1 / subme=2 / merange=57 / temporal-mvp / no-frame-dup / no-hme / weightp / no-weightb / no-analyze-src-pics / deblock=0:0 / sao / no-sao-non-deblock / rd=3 / selective-sao=4 / early-skip / rskip / no-fast-intra / no-tskip-fast / no-cu-lossless / b-intra / no-splitrd-skip / rdpenalty=0 / psy-rd=2.00 / psy-rdoq=0.00 / no-rd-refine / no-lossless / cbqpoffs=0 / crqpoffs=0 / rc=crf / crf=17.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpstep=4 / stats-write=0 / stats-read=0 / ipratio=1.40 / pbratio=1.30 / aq-mode=2 / aq-strength=1.00 / cutree / zone-count=0 / no-strict-cbr / qg-size=32 / no-rc-grain / qpmax=69 / qpmin=0 / no-const-vbv / sar=1 / overscan=0 / videoformat=5 / range=0 / colorprim=2 / transfer=2 / colormatrix=2 / chromaloc=0 / display-window=0 / cll=0,0 / min-luma=0 / max-luma=255 / log2-max-poc-lsb=8 / vui-timing-info / vui-hrd-info / slices=1 / no-opt-qp-pps / no-opt-ref-list-length-pps / no-multi-pass-opt-rps / scenecut-bias=0.05 / hist-threshold=0.03 / no-opt-cu-delta-qp / no-aq-motion / no-hdr10 / no-hdr10-opt / no-dhdr10-opt / no-idr-recovery-sei / analysis-reuse-level=0 / analysis-save-reuse-level=0 / analysis-load-reuse-level=0 / scale-factor=0 / refine-intra=0 / refine-inter=0 / refine-mv=1 / refine-ctu-distortion=0 / no-limit-sao / ctu-info=0 / no-lowpass-dct / refine-analysis-type=0 / copy-pic=1 / max-ausize-factor=1.0 / no-dynamic-refine / no-single-sei / no-hevc-aq / no-svt / no-field / qp-adaptation-range=1.00 / no-scenecut-aware-qpconformance-window-offsets / right=0 / bottom=0 / decoder-max-rate=0 / no-vbv-live-multi-pass
Color range                              : Limited
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 13 s 378 ms
Source duration                          : 13 s 355 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Nominal bit rate                         : 2 282 b/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 320 kb/s / 320 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Source stream size                       : 3.72 KiB (0%)
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1
mdhd_Duration                            : 13378

...and I also tried this render from Voukoder too (and a few others) and this didn't play in Pro-18 either

General
Complete name                            : D:\films\Steve-solo\Miragenie\Renders\Sub-renders\Palace-fractal-Part3.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 72.1 MiB
Duration                                 : 3 s 767 ms
Overall bit rate                         : 161 Mb/s
Writing application                      : Voukoder (VEGAS)

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L6
Format settings                          : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 4 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 3 s 767 ms
Bit rate                                 : 160 Mb/s
Width                                    : 8 192 pixels
Height                                   : 4 096 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 2.000
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 30.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.159
Stream size                              : 72.0 MiB (100%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 164 r3065 ae03d92
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=esa / subme=10 / psy=0 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=52 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=0 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=24 / lookahead_threads=6 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=14 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=360 / keyint_min=1 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=180 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=15.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=24 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=2:0.70
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : MPEG Audio
Format version                           : Version 1
Format profile                           : Layer 3
Format settings                          : Joint stereo / MS Stereo
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-6B
Duration                                 : 3 s 744 ms
Source duration                          : 3 s 767 ms
Source_Duration_LastFrame                : -1 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 128 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 58.5 KiB (0%)
Source stream size                       : 58.9 KiB (0%)
Writing library                          : LAME3.100.1
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1
mdhd_Duration                            : 3744

Version 18 build 527

@Stephen-Shelton Hi, all my videos are MP4 & play with no problem in Vegas, I know you say you've 'spent hours trying to read up' but i think it would help if you Googled - Containers, Codecs & Formats, as within an MP4 can be a different array of information, here's one search but there are plenty to read & blow your mind https://api.video/blog/product-updates/every-video-format-codec-and-container-explained

You can if you want put the MP4 file/s that won't play in a zipped folder, drag it into Google Drive, click Share with anyone who has this link, Copy the link, then post on here using the chain button at the top of a new comment, I/someone will see if it plays on our Vegas, 👍

Thank you. Normally all my mp4 videos play fine back into Vegas, I make quite a few 4k ones (and don't need voukoder for that) but these aren't playing and the only difference is they are 8k and had to be rendered in Voukoder. It's not all mp4s just these specific 8k ones. So are you saying you make 8k (2:1 ratio) mp4 renders from Voukoder and they all play ok?

@Stephen-Shelton No sorry for the misunderstanding, i was just mainly ref to your mention 'Vegas not being able to read mp4s' & your mention of 'to download mp4 codecs which Vegas (strangely) seems to lack', - As an MP4 is not just a single or group of codecs you can download.

If i film in 8K it is always in MP4 HEVC, that's the default of the camera, & these do load into Vegas, but i don't use 360º so that's why i suggested uploading your file to Google Drive,

There is a HEVC & an HEIC codec you could download from Microsoft that might help, might not, I know when i installed these most 8k pics & videos worked in Vegas, annoying that you have to pay for this, https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/p/hevc-video-extensions/9nmzlz57r3t7#activetab=pivot:overviewtab

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/heif-image-extensions/9pmmsr1cgpwg?activetab=pivot:overviewtab

This is what my phone calls 8K HEVC MP4 playing in Vegas 🤷‍♂️

& just so you can compare & not fully understand just like me 😂🤦‍♂️ maybe some tweaks in Voukoder will help your vids play 🤷‍♂️

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\gidjo\OneDrive\Desktop\20220213_073338.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 75.1 MiB
Duration                                 : 7 s 912 ms
Overall bit rate                         : 79.6 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2022-02-13 07:33:47
Tagged date                              : UTC 2022-02-13 07:33:47
com.android.version                      : 12

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L6.1@Main
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 7 s 912 ms
Bit rate                                 : 79.3 Mb/s
Width                                    : 7 680 pixels
Height                                   : 4 320 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 24.000 FPS
Minimum frame rate                       : 23.981 FPS
Maximum frame rate                       : 24.045 FPS
FrameRate_Real                           : 24.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.100
Stream size                              : 74.8 MiB (100%)
Title                                    : VideoHandle
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2022-02-13 07:33:47
Tagged date                              : UTC 2022-02-13 07:33:47
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 7 s 862 ms
Source duration                          : 7 s 829 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 256 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 245 KiB (0%)
Source stream size                       : 245 KiB (0%)
Title                                    : SoundHandle
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2022-02-13 07:33:47
Tagged date                              : UTC 2022-02-13 07:33:47
mdhd_Duration                            : 7862

hi, thank you for your time and help. However I have found a solution (as per earlier post) so I'll stick with that (if it ain't broke, don't fix it sort of thing). After i posted this thread I carried on playing about with options (I had already wasted 2 hours on it) and I discovered Voukoder could output in quicktime mov format. It's the same prores format I use for my 'lossless' sub mixes on big projects in 4k, so I gave that a try and, hurrah. it played back. The voukoder mp4 render in 8k load up fine to youtube, so I just wanted this intermediatory 8k render that played back in Vegas so I could load my submixes into the final render .veg file, and the voukoder to mov format works for that. I hope this post helps others with the same level of beginners to intermediate skills in vegas set up that I have! Thank you again for your time and effort trying to help a bit of a useless dork (me) on the whole vegas rendering set up thing

So the file format that worked was 8K ProRes? What didn't work was 8K AVC?

.mov and .mp4 don't tell anyone enough info for this advice to be useful.

Good that you found a solution that works, i always find it interesting that some programs still use Quicktime .mov to render,

I have Mocha Pro Plugin + Standalone, retail $1495.00, it's one of the 'Hollywood' quality programs, If i want to render out from the standalone version the only options i have are an Image sequence or as a Quicktime .mov, so i'm guessing they consider .mov to be fine 🤷‍♂️

So the file format that worked was 8K ProRes? What didn't work was 8K AVC?

.mov and .mp4 don't tell anyone enough info for this advice to be useful.

Sorry confused but this comment. Why isn't this useful? It worked for me using a different rendering format out of voukoder. Why isn't that info helpful advice?

It's completely useless as you didn't say what was in the containers. No screenshot, no description, nothing. Was I even correct about ProRes and AVC?

Voukoder can output a huge variety of formats in a number of containers. It's what's in the container that matters.

It's completely useless as you didn't say what was in the containers. No screenshot, no description, nothing. Was I even correct about ProRes and AVC?

Voukoder can output a huge variety of formats in a number of containers. It's what's in the container that matters.

I think you're being a bit hard on me there, it's not 'completely' useless. It was simply using the voukoder defaults for each case. There is a distinct difference between .mp4 and .mov. It may not be of value to anyone trying to get into the nuts and bolts of it but maybe people, not wanting or knowing how to get into the full detail of it, might want to see there are simple possible work arounds to try if they have the same problem. I had posted the mp4s that didn't work and, as said, used the mov output format with the Prores codec (it was the 'KS recommended' one). I hope it helps someone if not you

Just describe exactly which format you output and it would be useful. Now you added key details that it was ProRes "KS recommended" that you had omitted.

.mp4 and mov do not capture that distinction, and users trying to replicate what you did would be left to guess.

@Stephen-Shelton

Your solution is a good one, and ProRes is an inarguably appropriate choice. You will find there is a lot of speculative thinking on these forums that sometimes misses the mark.

I think what triggered that response is that your HEVC / AVC encodes to MP4 "should" also have worked, and are in a preferred Windows format.

• I think you should stick with the ProRes, and if you will also post the MediaInfo for the encodes that did work, they are worth keeping in reserve as an alternative solution for others.
• As a suggestion when you have time to play with it, try various settings with the Legacy Decoder options in Vegas, being sure to restart the application each time you make a change. Since Voukoder uses open source x265/x264 under the hood, changing the default decoder may make a difference. Also, in Voukoder, you will want to choose a higher x265 RF value, like 23 or 27 instead of 17, as 265 Mbps is pushing the limits of system hardware/software adequacy.
• 

So the file format that worked was 8K ProRes? What didn't work was 8K AVC?

.mov and .mp4 don't tell anyone enough info for this advice to be useful.

@RogerS 8k AVC is not a legal format, so the simple thinking was he should use 8K HEVC, but 8K HEVC is next to useless in Vegas because it will only use a couple of CPU cores of the render engine to playback on the timeline so even with GPU decode it's still terrible. I don't know why he can't playback 8K voukoder HEVC but in a sense it's a moot point, Vegas plays back Prores well, and if he has enough CPU to playback 8K he's found a solution.

Only advantage to HEVC 8K is the speed of hardware encoding, but that advantage is eroded due to having to use proxies, and for his work 180 or 360vr, there's not enough resolution or quality in the 720p proxies vegas produces.

@Stephen-Shelton

Your solution is a good one, and ProRes is an inarguably appropriate choice. You will find there is a lot of speculative thinking on these forums that sometimes misses the mark.

I think what triggered that response is that your HEVC / AVC encodes to MP4 "should" also have worked, and are in a preferred Windows format.

• I think you should stick with the ProRes, and if you will also post the MediaInfo for the encodes that did work, they are worth keeping in reserve as an alternative solution for others.
• As a suggestion when you have time to play with it, try various settings with the Legacy Decoder options in Vegas, being sure to restart the application each time you make a change. Since Voukoder uses open source x265/x264 under the hood, changing the default decoder may make a difference. Also, in Voukoder, you will want to choose a higher x265 RF value, like 23 or 27 instead of 17, as 265 Mbps is pushing the limits of system hardware/software adequacy.
• 

Thank you. Yes I have had playback problems with 17, lots of stuttering and lagging. I use 17 as I've read a couple of blogs/posts where people think this is a good near loseless result. I was using 17 as I wasn't wanting to playback these video renders, just stick them in a veg file for creating a master end video, so thus I wanted them as good/lossless as reasonably possible. If I'm doing a test render to view, yes I use a value like 23. I use prores on my other 'sub-mixes' too, like my longer 4k videos, so yes good advice to keep with it. I was going to anyway (as it worked!) but it's always very reassuring when someone that understands the working of these things better than I validates it! Thanks