Interesting that this problem is tied to bitrate. Thanks for contributing by reporting back.

One note- normally you wouldn't use similar bitrates for AVC and HEVC as HEVC is a more compressed/efficient file format so a bitrate of 1/3 to 1/2 would be comparable for HEVC.

I think the default bitrates are broadly acceptable for YouTube (which once you add in its own compression looks way worse anyway). I wouldn't use CBR for YouTube, better to have a reasonable average and a max to give headroom when it's needed.

What is your graphics card and driver version? Have you tried updating them from the Vegas Help Menu?

If you go to Preferences->Video and set "GPU Acceleration of Video Processing" to OFF, does the problem remain or go away?

Thanks for an informative post and examples. For further help on this peer forum, start by providing the information outlined here, Section C being the most important:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/important-information-required-to-help-you--110457/

Thanks for the comments. I have a MSI RTX2080 Ti and it's always updated and at present is at the studio version 31.0.15.2698. When I first experienced this issue it was March on version Vegas Pro 19 so had the corresponding driver for then. I've also updated my Signature with my system details, so thanks for the advice there.
I have created a new project with each of the camera files (Go Pro, FDR-AX53 and ZV-E10 all AVC but different bitrates) and the same photo and it fails each time so is repeatable 100% of the time.

It doesn't matter what I save the photo as .bmp, .jpg, .png etc, it still behaves the same.

What I have found is that different photos do make a difference and here is 3 examples of the same photo. I cannot upload on the forum so have stuck them on my webserver.

1. A 4311 x 2871 jpg with no cropping so as is. Works fine and has a file size of 70mb
https://www.ringtone.net/temp/different_photo_no_crop.mp4

2. I then added a 16:19 crop top the same photo event/pan crop and the file is 46Mb and you have the issue:
https://www.ringtone.net/temp/different_photo_with_crop.mp4

3. Then cropped the photo in paintshop pro at exactly 3840 x 2160 and it's 46 Mb and has the issue:
https://www.ringtone.net/temp/Resized_to_16x9.mp4

I then made a few blank pngs with different colours and got the issue each time. File size was around 46Mb each time.

Interesting that this problem is tied to bitrate. Thanks for contributing by reporting back.

One note- normally you wouldn't use similar bitrates for AVC and HEVC as HEVC is a more compressed/efficient file format so a bitrate of 1/3 to 1/2 would be comparable for HEVC.

I think the default bitrates are broadly acceptable for YouTube (which once you add in its own compression looks way worse anyway). I wouldn't use CBR for YouTube, better to have a reasonable average and a max to give headroom when it's needed.

Thanks Roger, Think I'll stick to the default settings for HEVC in Vegas if I ever add static images.

Your uploads don't play correctly: no video.

Did I read correctly that the problem occurs if you apply pan/crop?

You may have discovered a new bug: build 214 was released a short time ago.

Can you post a screenshot showing your Project Settings?

Can you upload your three files to Drive or Dropbox?

Your uploads don't play correctly: no video.

Did I read correctly that the problem occurs if you apply pan/crop?

You may have discovered a new bug: build 214 was released a short time ago.

Can you post a screenshot with your Project Settings?

Can you upload your three files to Drive or Dropbox?

 

Ah you'll need to install the HEVC codec as I rendered them to use that codec not AVC. I downloaded them from the Microsoft store. HEVC Video Extensions.

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L5.1@High
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 8 s 300 ms
Bit rate                                 : 46.3 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels

they'll probably play OK on your phone.

I thought it was related to pan/crop but that only made a difference when I changed the photo and that was when it wasn't cropped. It made no difference to the original flies I posted.

This was also happening to me with Vegas Pro 19 in March so I don't think this will be a new bug?
My Project Settings:


 

Since I am unable to duplicate your issue on my system, by varying either the pan/crop or bitrate settings of Magix AVC / HEVC software encoders, can you "please" upload your three files to Drive or Dropbox?

I don't think you understand -- we would like to examine the original files that show the problem, and not something that has been reprocessed and delivered on an online streaming player -- same thing applies to the upload streaming player on this forum or Youtube, that matter.

Thank you for understanding; we have a variety of tools available to run deep analysis of files, but without their original metadata and formatting, they are useless. Since your files appear to show some GOP discontinuities, analyzing them may give some clues.

Can you upload your three files to Drive or Dropbox?

Here you go: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aut3W2TJt4pAq0gTLmsMIny_8Esl?e=llkPYE on Microsoft One Drive.

I'm unable to duplicate your issue using a cropped or uncropped still in a 4k project, using HEVC software codec at 50 and 135 Mbps CBR in Vegas Pro 20 build 214. Here is a typical result ( with a pan/crop). I'm working on a lowly i5 with Intel 620 graphics.

If you'll put the word "Bug" in your topic title, It will be read by someone up the food chain. It will be good to look at this FAQ, especially Section C to see the kind of information likely to be needed.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

@clarkerza This is what bitrate looks like per frame. Very different results.

What bitrate viewer are you using? I was looking for something that handles HEVC.

@Musicvid It's called Telstream Switch 5 pro, it's necessary for modern codecs such as XAVC-HS, and Apple Prores Raw. It's not priced reasonably but if you have a previous version, there's an upgrade route that is.

Ok then. Was playing with ffprobe scripts today but didn't get there.

@clarkerza Are you sure you are using the HEVC software codec for your CBR renders?

As expected, CBR looks terrible with the QSV hardware encoder on my system.

Yuck.

And the question I've been holding back -- why CBR? Do you know that it does not produce higher quality than CQ / CRF, it just causes reduced playability?

@clarkerza Are you sure you are using the HEVC software codec for your CBR renders?

As expected, CBR looks terrible with the QSV hardware encoder on my system.

Yuck.

And the question I've been holding back -- why CBR? Do you know that it does not produce higher quality than CQ / CRF, it just causes reduced playability?

No, it's when using VBR for HEVC or AVC MAGIX encoder. If I set the average bitrate to anything above 20,000,000 KB/s the issue occur but it doesn't matter what the max bit rate is set yo. I mentioned CBR as it happens if I use that as well but I would never use CBR for YouTube videos.

The videos I shared above are using HEVC VBR and I've explained what settings I used for each one.
I can send you a snapshot of the original foot age and footage. If you could try maybe? Will need to send later as just getting a train. . Will also add the bug word to my subject.

Cheers

Since I am unable to duplicate your issue on my system, by varying either the pan/crop or bitrate settings of Magix AVC / HEVC software encoders, can you "please" upload your three files to Drive or Dropbox?

I don't think you understand -- we would like to examine the original files that show the problem, and not something that has been reprocessed and delivered on an online streaming player -- same thing applies to the upload streaming player on this forum or Youtube, that matter.

Thank you for understanding; we have a variety of tools available to run deep analysis of files, but without their original metadata and formatting, they are useless. Since your files appear to show some GOP discontinuities, analyzing them may give some clues.

Sorry misunderstood. Will send later. Thanks.

I got the ones you uploaded to Microsoft One.

No, it's when using VBR for HEVC or AVC MAGIX encoder. If I set the average bitrate to anything above 20,000,000 KB/s the issue occur but it doesn't matter what the max bit rate is set yo. I mentioned CBR as it happens if I use that as well but I would never use CBR for YouTube videos.

The videos I shared above are using HEVC VBR and I've explained what settings I used for each one.
I can send you a snapshot of the original foot age and footage. If you could try maybe? Will need to send later as just getting a train. . Will also add the bug word to my subject.

Now I'm the one that misunderstood your first post. I still cannot reproduce your problem. But I am still in the dark; you say you are using "Magix HEVC or AVC VBR." I am not clear at all -- are you using the Magix software  encoders, which say "Mainconcept," or are you using one of the hardware encoders, which are either Nvidia, AMD, or Intel? Please post a screenshot like this one, which shows some suggested delivery settings for Youtube, as one example.

Since I am busy getting ready for the holidays, I'll leave you with my impressions, and after you've had time to experiment, we can pick up the conversation then.

• Hardware encoders are generally faster, lower quality (!), and produce larger files that are harder to decode by players than software encoders.
• VBR is more efficient than CBR. With video that contains both high and low motion scenes, VBR produces better quality because it puts the bits where they are needed.
• Your most efficient encodes will come from using x264 / x265 in Voukoder. with sane CRF settings, in the 18-23 range.

Welcome to the forums, and do lots of testing to see what works best for you!

No, it's when using VBR for HEVC or AVC MAGIX encoder. If I set the average bitrate to anything above 20,000,000 KB/s the issue occur but it doesn't matter what the max bit rate is set yo. I mentioned CBR as it happens if I use that as well but I would never use CBR for YouTube videos.

The videos I shared above are using HEVC VBR and I've explained what settings I used for each one.
I can send you a snapshot of the original foot age and footage. If you could try maybe? Will need to send later as just getting a train. . Will also add the bug word to my subject.

Now I'm the one that misunderstood your first post. I still cannot reproduce your problem. But I am still in the dark; you say you are using "Magix HEVC or AVC VBR." I am not clear at all -- are you using the Magix software  encoders, which say "Mainconcept," or are you using one of the hardware encoders, which are either Nvidia, AMD, or Intel? Please post a screenshot like this one, which shows some suggested delivery settings for Youtube, as one example.

Since I am busy getting ready for the holidays, I'll leave you with my impressions, and after you've had time to experiment, we can pick up the conversation then.

• Hardware encoders are generally faster, lower quality (!), and produce larger files that are harder to decode by players than software encoders.
• VBR is more efficient than CBR. With video that contains both high and low motion scenes, VBR produces better quality because it puts the bits where they are needed.
• Your most efficient encodes will come from using x264 / x265 in Voukoder. with sane CRF settings, in the 18-23 range.

Welcome to the forums, and do lots of testing to see what works best for you!

 

Thanks. Sorry it's me that's confused things with me not being clear.

I only use VBR normally and only tried CBR to prove it I had the fault with that as well (I did). When I use the Mainconcept HEVC or QSV they work and take a long time but there is a slight delay between the video and audio (lip sync) else I would use those.

Sorry it's me that's confused things with me not being clear. The key thing that causes the issue is when the average (bps) is set to anything above 20,000,000. I've attached my render settings below. The settings are the same for both MAGIX HEVC and MAGIX AVC marked in red. I can reproduce this 100% of the time each time. I do have a lot of footage to do between now and Christmas which will have a lot of still photography so I may just bite the bullet and pay for the Adobe Subscription and get Premiere. I don't want to as I love using Vegas Pro. :(

I do REALLY appreciate the help YOU and others have given me on the forum and maybe the issues are specific to my setup/machine:

Thanks

Andy

For best quality, which I understood from your first post is your goal, try using the Mainconcept "software" encoder. The ABR settings of 135M Max and 50M Avg are just fine for your 4k 24p 8 bit 4:2:0 source. Do the artifacts go away if you do that?

Your bug report with using the NV "Hardware" encoder has been noted with the developers; however, its use as an output format is somewhat overrated, due to its lower overall quality, compression artifacts, and much bigger file sizes. I would only use it if I was in a big hurry ;?)

Happy Thanksgiving (US)!

@clarkerza I tried voukoder HEVC(nvenc) and Vegas MagixHEVC. I used your settings except my media source was 29.975 so encoded at that framerate. MagixHEVC failed to show the photo. First Playback is MagixHEVC, 2nd Voukoder, I would recommend you try Voukoder, using the default quality preset, it only uses data where required, it also uses B frames for higher quality/efficiency, MagixHEVC doesn't

I can see the problem, Vegas is using a maximum of 247KB per frame, while Voukoder dumps a huge 3.1MB into the 'scene change' frame for the photo.

EDIT: Actually I see the voukoder encode is 23.976fps, this was the first encode I did using your exact setting, I later changed to 29.97fps, but used the wrong screenshot for this clip

I don't think you need to jump to other software. I also use Voukoder at a reasonable bitrate with x.264 and get perfectly good results with slideshows. It also has HEVC if you prefer that.

For best quality, which I understood from your first post is your goal, try using the Mainconcept "software" encoder. The ABR settings of 135M Max and 50M Avg are just fine for your 4k 24p 8 bit 4:2:0 source. Do the artifacts go away if you do that?

Your bug report with using the NV "Hardware" encoder has been noted with the developers; however, its use as an output format is somewhat overrated, due to its lower overall quality, compression artifacts, and much bigger file sizes. I would only use it if I was in a big hurry ;?)

Happy Thanksgiving (US)!

Happy Thanksgiving from the UK, and many thanks for the update and advice.

The issue I have with using the Mainconcept or Intel is they both appear to produce a lip sync issue with the rendered video file - however I also checked the files on my Smart TV and I think they are OK.

If I add them below can you check they look OK and there is no lipsync for the first 2 for you please?

1. Mainconcept AVC

2. Mainconcept HEVC

And then the NVIDIA HEVC output with the known issue


Thanks for your help and advice and also recommending Voukoder. I had no idea about Voukoder and I've just installed and am testing it now.