@RogerS Apparently H264 is not an 'industry standard' codec (but I could be wrong) for professional production. Pro Res is a better one and some other massive codec that the FFMPEG channel recommends, such as FFV1. After having a bad experience with some corrupted project files, I want to be a bit more cautious. Someone advised H264 is 'asking for trouble', because it is prone to errors. I do not know fully. I was thinking of getting a larger HDD, swapping into more professional codecs, size-be-damned and hopefully more stable production workflow. Thanks for letting me know about the HDD. Here is a paste of my current codec: https://pastebin.com/P4et2CpF

"Industry standard codec for professional production" for what professional purpose? Delivery, archiving or using as an intermediary?

All of the above...?

I don't know what part of the industry you are referring to specifically, or who is giving you this information.

H264/AVC was cutting edge for cameras in 2008 or so. You had to transcode it at first too for stable and smooth editing. In 2021 many of us edit with it natively as GPUs and NLEs support its decoding.

Personally, even with a project with hundreds of 4K AVC files (constant framerate from a camera) I don't see any reason to transcode just for editing. I use MagicAVC and Prores for internediates and h264 for delivery as it's standard and widely compatible.

Just over 3 years ago, I replaced the WD 3.5" Blue 4TB HDD D drive in my desktop (where all media and project files are kept with a WD 3.5" Black 6TB HDD. After copying the contents of the Blue to the Black and installing the Black in the desktop, an increase in editing and playback speed in Vegas Pro was immediately noticeable - and that was using 4K AVC 2160p video on a 4th gen i7.

In deciding which WD Black to get, I checked the Black specs comparison chart on WD's website and decided on the 6TB (WD6003FZBX) because its Performance data was better than the lower sized Black HDDs as well as the other 6TB (WD6003FZWX), the latter having half the Cache than the FZBX.

When I got the Alienware desktop late last year, out went the WD Blue 2TB HDD and in went the WD Black 6TB HDD.

I use a 6tb WD black in my “New” PC and also in my old 4790k PC, handles fhd, 4k, prores etc.

@Former user 2 things you should be clear:

1, code -> decode

2, bandwidth

e.g. none of my hardware supports the following video file so that I can't play it back fluently on my machine.

if this file had the bandwidth of 1000 Mb/s instead of 24.5 Mb/s, then I even couldn't open it on my machine (though my data disc is a nvme ssd with high speed).

What is an "industry standard codec?" Define, please. h264 is registered and licensed by MPEG-LA, does that qualify?

What will your files be used for? Viewing, or archive? What were your original files? If they are originally h264, there is nothing to be gained by transcoding them. There are no "bad" or "error prone" codecs, only misapplied ones.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

@NickHope @RogerS @JN- @Yelandkeil and @Dexcon , thanks--that is a relief as SSD drives are quite expensive and the only ones I can get my hands on are the small capacity ones. I have older performance drives laying around and can use them. They are also cheaper than SSD's. I still shoot 1080p, but it is great to know they can work for 4K footage, which is amazing.

@Musicvid Let "industry standard" mean codecs most often used by professional videographers in the industry. For instance, Canon and Sony cameras. My camera, the Panasonic GH3 (or any GH series) would be less widely used. Not too long ago, I had some footage from my camera output in AVCHD (accident) and downloaded Adobe Premiere Pro (trial) to edit. It absolutely did not support the codec. Though in 2014, for multimedia school, I used this exact same codec in Adobe Premiere Pro and it worked. Between then and a couple of years ago, Adobe dropped support of AVCHD though it is raining money on that company. The trial version of Vegas was able to play the footage just fine, however.

Now even more recently, I had 720p footage @ 60fps and Vegas could not handle it. It crashed 100% of the time. When I re-encoded that footage to Apple Pro Res 444, it played on Vegas like excrement through a goose, smooth. ( As an aside, I was told that 60fps is not an ideal recording rate, 30 fps is better.)

H264 is considered to be a 'consumer' level codec by many pro's. My experience is mixed with it. Last week, I had a client do a 40 minute poetry reading which I recorded @ 30fps, 1080p, and Vegas was able to handle that footage. I had a hitch with the audio because I had to match two sources (lav + shotgun), marry and then master them. Took a lot longer than I thought it would, but the client was happy with the results.

Now I could be wrong, maybe CNN, AlJazeera, Fox, Russia Today, BBC, et al film crews use H264 as source files, but I doubt it. Heck, if I don't have to re-encode, that's great. But so far, re-encoding (n some instances) helped save my projects. Though I have been shooting and editing for years, there are loads of things I still need to learn and am open to being corrected.

I think you are pretty confused. Broadcast TV isn't using GH3s but may be using AVCHD, even in interlaced varieties. Their requirements are highly specific which reflect studio environments. Netflix etc. also have particular standards which are again different. If you are producing for them you should follow the rules.

Otherwise if you work for yourself shoot how you like. Award winning films have been shot in h264 on HD Canons and the like.

Apple ProRes 444 has ridiculous data rates and my external drives struggle with it in 4K.

Use Media Info to figure out which AVC Vegas doesn't like. It's not all the same.

@RogerS Maybe you want to re-read what I wrote. In all likelihood, broadcast studios probably use Canon and Red cameras. GH series is great for indy film makers and people on a limited budget, but those with money would likely rent/buy something more substantial. Heck, the reason why I got the GH series was because of Shane Carruth who shot 'Upstream Color' on a GH2 and it looks fantastic. But I know Phillip Bloom, who did use a GH series at one point, uses Sony, last I checked.

It is not the equipment and software products that make the outstanding films, but first and foremost the people with their ideas, experience and skills.

@walter-i. Well, it is people like Bloom and Carruth who know how to leverage any camera in their hand. In the latter case, Panasonic learned and adapted his mods in their updated products. I am still earning the fundamentals, but it is a joy and wonder to see the work of absolute pro's.

Most broadcast houses I know use Sony, Panasonic, GVG (and Canon) cameras and various types of recording devices (EVS, Sony, Blackmagic, etc.). So the recording video types range from XDCAM HD, DVC Pro, ProRes, DNxHD, XAVC (H.264) and others. H.264 used as XAVC definitely is considered to be one of the current broadcast standards.

It seems that the underlying issue is that you are having trouble with handling h264 (a "bad consumer codec") on the Vegas timeline, and you want something that handles smoother on the timeline (an "industry standard codec"). Those seem to be your only criteria for subjectifying your experience, if in an imaginative way.

In order to demystify this whole complex for you, it is necessary to distinguish between the fundamental types of codec formats and their uses. In a reply farther up, you lumped acquisition, intermediate, and delivery codecs all together; nothing could be farther from the truth.

• Delivery  formats are what we see. They are more compressed, and favor smaller size while retaining quality over decoding speed. Since the end goal of video is delivery, we generally choose to live with some timeline sluggishness, or else use an intermediate or proxy codec instead for editing.
• Intermediate formats are larger, retain highest quality, and handle smoother on the timeline. However, you will never see an intermediate delivered in the wild, because they would bring streaming servers to their knees in a matter of seconds. Instead, as their name accurately suggests, they are an intermediary to a delivery codec. Yes, it is as simple as that.
• Acquisition formats are what your camera shoots. They often handle poorly on the editing timeline, and they contain an allowable number of errors. Also called transport streams, they are also used in slightly altered forms for broadcast delivery, because of their efficiency for that narrow purpose.

I bet you didn't know that h264 is often used for all three! AVC/MP4 is the most common delivery codec. AVCHD is a very common acquisition and broadcast transport codec. XAVC-S is a favored UHD acquisition format, while XAVC-I is among the world's best lossless intermediate codecs. So much for attributions..........

It is the third type that is causing your problems. But instead of calling them good, bad, or ugly, the title of your next thread should be, "AVC / h264 doesn't handle well on my timeline," without villainizing. That way, we can help you figure out why it isn't working as well for you as for the thousands of editors out there with comparable machines who are having no problems whatsoever "handling" 1080 p30 AVC! In that thread you should be prepared to tell us your MediaInfo Properties ( now requested three times), tell us what effects you are using, any changes you have made to frame rate, resolution, aspect, cropping, pan/zoom, generated media, and I hope to god you are not editing your 8 bit source in 32 bit float pixel format.

Finally, when choosing codecs for a particular purpose, the oldest advice is still the best:

"Size, Quality, Speed. Pick two."

Welcome to the forums. Here is some light reading to get you started.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/speaking-good-video-a-beginner-s-guide--104463/

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/got-questions-consult-the-tutorials-first-please--120282/

• Delivery  codecs are what we see. They are more compressed, and favor smaller size while retaining quality over decoding speed. Since the end goal of video is delivery, we generally choose to live with some timeline sluggishness, or else use an intermediate or proxy codec instead for editing.
• Intermediate codecs are larger, retain highest quality, and handle smoother on the timeline. However, you will never see an intermediate delivered in the wild, because they would bring streaming servers to their knees in a matter of seconds. Instead, as their name accurately suggests, they are an intermediary to a delivery codec. Yes, it is as simple as that.
• Acquisition codecs are what your camera shoots. You will never see them streamed, they generally handle poorly on the editing timeline, and they contain an allowable number of errors. Also called transport streams, they are also used in slightly altered forms for broadcast delivery, because of their efficiency for that narrow purpose.

An excellent overview and explanation @Musicvid ... thank you.

@Musicvid I am going to be completely controversial and upset most people here and say that H264 is probably not the best codec to work with for video editing. While I agree, it might be a good delivery codec in some instances, it often sucks to work with. Your breakdown is pointless to me because if you look at the specs of my camera, the Panasonic GH3, H264 is what I get. Those are my working files. I cannot pick any of the nice codecs for the camera to output unless I get an Atomos Ninja, which is out-of-budget at the moment. That is why I re-encode to other codecs that work a little smoother. I know, it is baffling to see H264 sometimes bring my computer to its knees, like watching Woody Allen beat Mike Tyson to a pulp, but there it is. I have to switch to a fighter Mike Tyson can handle. I am sure you have lovely cameras that output amazing codecs that are a joy to work with and never give your machine any trouble ever, alas I do not. I have what I have. When money rains like manna from heaven and I get a very nice camera, I will re-consult your post.

Incidentally, I did post my media info several posts up, and on more than one thread. Have a click-see, mon ami. Here it is again: pastebin.com/P4et2CpF

A 4th Gen i7 is good enough for HD. There is a reason your timeline performance is not what you expect. Mine is an i5, and it previews AVC 1080 p30 flawlessly, as should most. Your Vegas "could" be using a suboptimal decoder (so4compoundplug.dll) or a 32 bit decoder (qt7plug.dll), which might explain your sluggish performance. But it will take a different approach to figure it out.

What you are asking, is for an Intermediate format to ease your load on your system. Others have done more wide-ranging tests, but I have quantified a few results here:

Or, you could set out to find why your system is having trouble handling h264, while most do not. That would involve providing the extra information I suggested, in its own thread, of course.

A bit of background: When mpeg-2 was introduced around 2000, it was considered a crap codec because it would not play on many systems. Now, it is the gold standard of IP medium GOP compression. Then came h264, same issues, same opinions of it. But that was ten years ago. Maybe not the easiest on your system, but my i5 previews 4k at modest bitrates. No proxy, no intermediate, but no filters either.

I suspect you will be happiest spending a lot of time re-encoding everything to a lightweight intermediate so you can have a smoother timeline appearance. That is not the only approach, but lacking further information, your performance reports do not meet the norm for systems in your class, and there are some things, starting with the decoder, that can help overcome issues such as yours. Now that you are aware, it remains entirely your choice.

And no, a different hard drive will not make a difference.

As I said, welcome to the forums, and best of luck!

@Former user

The last wedding I did, quite a while ago, I used a GH3, (ALL-I) a Canon 5D Mk III (ALL-I) and a Sony RX100 mk. II (Inter frame). All FHD capable. I had an i7-4790k PC.

I considered by far the best of those to be the GH3, beautiful FHD image, to my eyes. The RX100 I used for run and gun.

Anyway, my point is this, while the edit went ok, I noticed that everything went to a crawl occasionally. My inexperience at editing didn’t help, but I realised after a while that it was the relatively small pieces of Sony .MTS RX100 video that caused the problem. It really brought the system to it’s knees. Anyway I finished the job. I found the GH3 and Canon footage no problem compared to the Sony.

So, unless you have some PC problem, I’m at a loss why the GH3 footage is an issue. As I recollect it shoots at up to 70Mbps, which for FHD is really good.

@Musicvid I avoid tweaking the program, but did research and made adjustments, but nothing worked for stability of the 720p @ 60 fps footage. 1080p footage @ 30 fps works mostly fine though. Magix tech support stated, "One of the recurring error reports in the system information text is faulting ucrtbase.dll.  ucrtbase.dll file is a software component of Microsoft Visual C++ by Microsoft.
Microsoft Visual C++ is an IDE developed by Microsoft. Ucrtbase.dll is a dynamic link library file that is associated with Microsoft Visual C++.
To resolve this issue please do the following.  
- Make sure that the correct version of the redistributable is installed. If it is not, you should be able to download it directly from Microsoft's website.
- After the redistributable is installed, go to your computer's Programs and Features window, which can be accessed from the Control Panel.
- In Programs and Features, highlight the entry for the specific redistributable version, click Change, and then click Repair. (Please note that the "Repair" option is what fixes this issue; an uninstall/reinstall may not correct the problem)
- After the repair installation is completed, you should be able to install your software.
Additionally, plugins or other features can sometimes utilize portions of earlier redistributables. If, for example, you Repair the VS2012 redistributable and still see the issue, you may wish to Repair VS2008 as well.""The same error is occurring again, faulting ucrtbase.dll."

I pretty much "repaired" everything. Luckily, I do not often shoot at 60 fps and will be careful to avoid it in the future.

Ok?

If Vegas opens, the correct redistributable is installed and functional.

It also has nothing to do with your issue.

Happy Fishing!