Hi, I have a project here and I noticed that the VLog to Rec 709 LUT included in vegas pro 19 is not the same as the official LUT from Panasonic: I get horrible banding even with 10 bit footage and the colors are differently saturated than the official LUT and the scopes are all crazy different between the two.
I will attach something to show what I mean but the built in LUT seems to be more correct than panasonic's lut, although they say theirs is for legal/video output only and my project is in 32 bit floating point full range, and I've changed to different project settings like 32 bit legal range and for some reason the official panasonic Vlog to rec 709 lut just doesn't look right at all, and the one built into vegas seems to be for 8 bit only or something?
Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong? The only thing I had to do to make the footage is lower the shadows on the RL color wheels to -0.60 because with the built in vp19 vlog lut it had my shadows way too high - see the third set of pictures for that.
I'm applying my LUT in the "camera LUT" section in vp19 under "input LUT".
I'm also on 1/64 ND filter for this scene, due to being so bright.
vp19 vlog to rec 709 lut applied, with severe banding and artifacts in the sky. This is -0.60 shadows. This banding is only in the sky, not anywhere else, and it's very distracting and moves constantly even when the camera isn't moving.
scopes for above picture. With -0.60 shadows because they were so high. See 3rd set of pictures for before.
official panasonic vlog to rec 709 lut applied, no banding or artifacts seen, but colors are off and unsaturated compared to above. It is extremely unsaturated before applying, as with all the footage. link to lut https://na.panasonic.com/us/resource-center/v-log-v-709-3d-lut
scopes for above picture.
With vp19 vlog to rec 709 lut with no adjustments. There's some banding - not as bad as after I change the shadows like in the first picture.
The shadows are way too high and require me to lower them by -0.60 for the scopes to look like the first set of pictures.
The picture looks fantastic with the vegas pro built in vlog to rec 709 lut applied, but requires the -0.60 shadows change, and the only problem is that I'm getting banding in the sky.
I've been through this before about the V-log from my camera and it says rec 709, but it's still VLog gamma. Panasonic told me it records in rec 709 but in Vlog gamma but I don't know who to trust, since even other cameras' log sample footage says rec 709 for their gamuts that I've downloaded online. And they all look fine after applying their luts.
Camera is a Panasonic AG-CX350. I also have the internal copy of the file and there's very minor differences in the scopes but the problem still happens on that version as well. I'd just prefer to render from the ninja file as it would render quicker.
Complete name : I:\NINJAV_S001_S001_T001.MOV
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 2.46 TiB
Duration : 11 h 19 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 532 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2024-07-08 23:01:26
Tagged date : UTC 2024-07-08 23:01:26
Writing library : Apple QuickTime
com.apple.proapps.image.{TI : Atomos
com.apple.proapps.image.{TI : NinjaV
com.apple.proapps.image.{TI : 10.7.1
Video
ID : 2
Format : ProRes
Format version : Version 0
Format profile : 422
Codec ID : apcn
Duration : 11 h 19 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 527 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.121
Stream size : 2.44 TiB (99%)
Writing library : atms
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2024-07-08 23:01:26
Tagged date : UTC 2024-07-08 23:01:26
Color primaries : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709
Audio
ID : 1
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : in24
Duration : 11 h 19 min
Source duration : 11 h 19 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 4 608 kb/s
Channel(s) : 4 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 5.47 GiB (0%)
Source stream size : 5.47 GiB (0%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2024-07-08 23:01:26
Tagged date : UTC 2024-07-08 23:01:26
Other
ID : 3
Type : Time code
Format : QuickTime TC
Duration : 11 h 19 min
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
Time code, striped : Yes
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2024-07-08 23:01:26
Tagged date : UTC 2024-07-08 23:01:26
From internal version. Metadata confirms I was set to V-Log VGamut, at least in the internal version. (one slice since it splits the files)
Complete name : G:\SD 1\A024C001_211023_C94F.MOV Format : MPEG-4 Format profile : QuickTime Codec ID : qt 2011.07 (qt /pana) File size : 175 GiB Duration : 3 h 4 min Overall bit rate : 136 Mb/s Encoded date : UTC 2021-10-23 14:45:06 Tagged date : UTC 2021-10-23 14:45:06 com.panasonic.Semi-Pro.meta : <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no" ?> / <ClipMain xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns="urn:schemas-Professional-Plug-in:Semi-Pro:ClipMetadata:v1.0"> / <ClipContent> / <GlobalClipID>**********</GlobalClipID> / <Duration>330900</Duration> / <EditUnit>1001/30000</EditUnit> / <EssenceList> / <Video> / <Codec BitRate="150">H265_420_LongGOP</Codec> / <ActiveLine>2160</ActiveLine> / <ActivePixel>3840</ActivePixel> / <BitDepth>10</BitDepth> / <FrameRate>29.97p</FrameRate> / <TimecodeType>Drop</TimecodeType> / <StartTimecode>18:27:54:20</StartTimecode> / <EndTimecode>21:31:55:19</EndTimecode> / <StartBinaryGroup>00000000</StartBinaryGroup> / </Video> / <Audio> / <Channel>4</Channel> / <SamplingRate>48000</SamplingRate> / <BitsPerSample>24</BitsPerSample> / </Audio> / </EssenceList> / <ClipMetadata> / <UserClipName>************</UserClipName> / <DataSource>SHOOTING</DataSource> / <Access> / <CreationDate>2021-10-23T09:45:06-05:00</CreationDate> / <LastUpdateDate>2021-10-23T12:49:07-05:00</LastUpdateDate> / </Access> / <Device> / <Manufacturer>Panasonic</Manufacturer> / <SerialNo.>**********</SerialNo.> / <ModelName>AG-CX350</ModelName> / </Device> / <Shoot> / <StartDate>2021-10-23T09:45:06-05:00</StartDate> / <EndDate>2021-10-23T12:49:07-05:00</EndDate> / </Shoot> / </ClipMetadata> / </ClipContent> / <UserArea> / <AcquisitionMetadata xmlns="urn:schemas-Professional-Plug-in:P2:CameraMetadata:v1.2"> / <CameraUnitMetadata> / <Gamma> / <CaptureGamma>V-Log</CaptureGamma> / </Gamma> / <Gamut> / <CaptureGamut>V-Gamut</CaptureGamut> / </Gamut> / </CameraUnitMetadata> / </AcquisitionMetadata> / </UserArea> / </ClipMain> Video ID : 1 Format : HEVC Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding Format profile : Main 10@L5.1@High Codec ID : hvc1 Codec ID/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding Duration : 3 h 4 min Bit rate : 132 Mb/s Width : 3 840 pixels Height : 2 160 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 Bit depth : 10 bits Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.530 Stream size : 169 GiB (97%) Language : English Encoded date : UTC 2021-10-23 14:45:06 Tagged date : UTC 2021-10-23 14:45:06 Color range : Full Color primaries : BT.709 Transfer characteristics : BT.709 Matrix coefficients : BT.709 Codec configuration box : hvcC Audio #1 ID : 2 Format : PCM Format settings : Big / Signed Codec ID : lpcm Duration : 3 h 4 min Source duration : 3 h 4 min Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 1 152 kb/s Channel(s) : 1 channel Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz Bit depth : 24 bits Stream size : 1.48 GiB (1%) Source stream size : 1.48 GiB (1%) Language : English Encoded date : UTC 2021-10-23 14:45:06 Tagged date : UTC 2021-10-23 14:45:06 Audio #2 ID : 3 Format : PCM Format settings : Big / Signed Codec ID : lpcm Duration : 3 h 4 min Source duration : 3 h 4 min Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 1 152 kb/s Channel(s) : 1 channel Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz Bit depth : 24 bits Stream size : 1.48 GiB (1%) Source stream size : 1.48 GiB (1%) Language : English Encoded date : UTC 2021-10-23 14:45:06 Tagged date : UTC 2021-10-23 14:45:06 Audio #3 ID : 4 Format : PCM Format settings : Big / Signed Codec ID : lpcm Duration : 3 h 4 min Source duration : 3 h 4 min Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 1 152 kb/s Channel(s) : 1 channel Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz Bit depth : 24 bits Stream size : 1.48 GiB (1%) Source stream size : 1.48 GiB (1%) Language : English Encoded date : UTC 2021-10-23 14:45:06 Tagged date : UTC 2021-10-23 14:45:06 Audio #4 ID : 5 Format : PCM Format settings : Big / Signed Codec ID : lpcm Duration : 3 h 4 min Source duration : 3 h 4 min Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 1 152 kb/s Channel(s) : 1 channel Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz Bit depth : 24 bits Stream size : 1.48 GiB (1%) Source stream size : 1.48 GiB (1%) Language : English Encoded date : UTC 2021-10-23 14:45:06 Tagged date : UTC 2021-10-23 14:45:06 Other ID : 6 Type : Time code Format : QuickTime TC Duration : 3 h 4 min Bit rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS Time code of first frame : 18:27:54;21 Time code, striped : Yes Title : A024 Language : English Encoded date : UTC 2021-10-23 14:45:06 Tagged date : UTC 2021-10-23 14:45:06
Ok, I've applied the official lut 1.5 times, once with the input lut and .5 strength on the look lut and it looks better and there's no banding. Why is this so? Is this correcting color shift due to the ND filter? It went from all the pure reds from being between red and magenta to pointing almost directly at red in the vectorscope.
Probably final edit: Yes, there's major major color shifting going on and applying the official LUT 1.5 times is correcting the shift shockingly well. There's some jackets that I know were cyan that are looking pure blue and other things like that, that I know are obviously wrong. I'll have to remember that about ND filters.
Final edit: I must add one more thing, the VLog LUT that is included in VP19 has something terribly wrong with it. It's not like the official one at all, and when I went down to no ND filter at night, and was only applying it once at 100%, there's no argument that I'm never using the built in VLog lut again. I'm sticking to the official one.
Another final edit: I ended up only using 1 instance of the official LUT as it was just making some places too saturated and too contrasty. It looked good for most places but not for colors that were very saturated, it blew them out.