What frame rate should I render at (50 or 60?)

AstralPhaser schrieb am 17.04.2019 um 17:24 Uhr

I’ve got an AX100 camcorder recording at 50fps and an iPhone 7 Plus recording at 60fps (or 59.*** variable frame rate). I currently use Vegas pro 13 to edit. If I ever put more than 6 raw iPhone files into Vegas it always gives me a black screen and no audio (and Vegas crashes) so I convert them to a constant frame rate of 60fps in handbreak which fixes the issue. Obviously I disable resampling on all clips in Vegas.

I’m now left with 88 60fps iPhone videos and 124 50fps ax100 Videos all at a constant rather than variable framerate was that will become a single video. The issue now is what frame rate do I render the video at? 50 or 60? The majority of the content is 50 FPS but the iPhone portions then look all choppy due to dropped frames when I render the whole video at 50fps. Will some other bad side effect occur if I render the whole 1 hour video (majority recorded at 50fps) at 60fps? What are the effects of doing this? Sure the iPhone video looks great but will the 50fps ax100 video look weird upscaled to 60fps? Will I have audio sync issues?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Kommentare

Musicvid schrieb am 17.04.2019 um 18:22 Uhr

50fps, the lowest common denominator.

Better to discard every sixth frame rather than to knit new ones.

Twixtor ($) is better suited to this type of work.

john_dennis schrieb am 17.04.2019 um 18:35 Uhr

I don't have time to get into the theory of resampling, but I think I'd be inclined to try Happy Otter Scripts Import Assist to see how it does changing the iPhone video to 50p.

john_dennis schrieb am 18.04.2019 um 09:24 Uhr

This subject piqued my interest. I didn't have any galloping horse video to use for comparisons so I made some video while I did some important work. Here are the results:

Vegas 13-453 60P iPhone 7 VFR Video Converted to 50P Constant Frame Rate in HOS

60P Rendered from Vegas 15 at 50P with Smart Resample using native 60p iPhone 7 VFR Video

60P Rendered from Vegas 15 at 50P with Resample Disabled using native 60p iPhone 7 VFR Video

Edit: Replaced video titles to accurately reflect the frame rate conversion method and resample mode in Vegas Pro 15. 

fr0sty schrieb am 18.04.2019 um 15:18 Uhr

Are you in europe? If you use a PAL system where you live, 50p is your best bet. If you are in a NTSC country, 50p isn't going to do you much good unless you're watching it on a computer... if you go to burn to DVD, or send it off for broadcast, they will want 50p for PAL or 60p for NTSC.

If you're just using it for watching on a computer that can play back either framerate, go with whatever requires the least amount of conversion.

Zuletzt geändert von fr0sty am 18.04.2019, 15:19, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

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AstralPhaser schrieb am 18.04.2019 um 15:30 Uhr

Australia is where I’m from but it’s a video for YouTube with most viewers being from the US. The video itself is a vlog around the city of Burnie in Tasmania.

In regards to the lawnmower scene John, I’ve noticed that 60 cut down to 50 honestly isn’t too bad. However, have a constantly panning camera (360 rotates slow) looking at fast moving city scenes and you notice juttering ruins the video. The video is 1 hour with 20 minutes on iPhone and 40 on the camcorder.

I appreciate the advice on extensions to use however I just wanted to keep it simple. That being said, I think I’ll go with 60fps as I’m not noticing any bad effects to the 50fps footage in comparison to horrible jittering when 60 becomes 50.

Thanks for sharing your time guys!

Dexcon schrieb am 18.04.2019 um 15:31 Uhr

+ 1 to fr0sty... I've found it better to convert Samsung Galaxy 6 (30 fps) to 25 fps via Resolve rather than mess around with the much superior images from the AX100 in 25/50 fps - take into account that I'm in a PAL country.

Zuletzt geändert von Dexcon am 18.04.2019, 15:32, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & 22, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 19.0.3, BCC 2025, Mocha Pro 2025.0, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX11 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

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Musicvid schrieb am 18.04.2019 um 17:04 Uhr

YouTube doesn't care.

Grazie schrieb am 18.04.2019 um 17:42 Uhr

YouTube doesn't care.

@Musicvid - When the history of our planet is written, they’ll stumble over your comment and rub their chins. 😂

Grazie

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john_dennis schrieb am 18.04.2019 um 19:24 Uhr

"I appreciate the advice on extensions to use however I just wanted to keep it simple."

If simplicity is high on your list, you should consider upgrading to Vegas Pro 15 or 16 since both handle iPhone 7 VFR internally. It would save you having to convert VFR media to CFR in Handbrake, etc.

AstralPhaser schrieb am 19.04.2019 um 02:03 Uhr

 

If simplicity is high on your list, you should consider upgrading to Vegas Pro 15 or 16 since both handle iPhone 7 VFR internally. It would save you having to convert VFR media to CFR in Handbrake, etc.

Ok now that suddenly is a good reason to update! At the moment, if I include more than about 6 iPhone 7 videos the screen will randomly go black. They will import, be editable and so on but the more you add, the faster the screen will go black until you have about 10 videos where it’s always black the moment you boot Vegas or drag green on the timeline.

However, I remember in late 2018 a friend showing me Vegas 16 I believe and the interface looked really different which was quite a put off, however, if it could handle VFR without going black and messing up, I would be happy to use it. Thing is that it didn’t work, I experienced the same problems in Vegas 16 as I did in Vegas 13, all smartphone videos are uneditable in any version of Vegas for me unless you are only editing about 2-3 of them together.

I generally end up with 80+ iPhone videos to edit together into one, so it’s a hopeless situation for me. It’s the one thing stopping me from selling my AX100 and switching to a high quality camera phone (like the P30 with a a plug in external mic with dead cat to improve awful phone audio capture). If Vegas supported VFR out of the box, my life would change for the better but I’ve yet to see it in action.

Eagle Six schrieb am 19.04.2019 um 02:45 Uhr

@AstralPhaser a couple suggestions. Download the trial version of Vegas Pro 16. It will limit the length you can render, but the rest is a full version, so you can test it direct. Then I would download the free beta Happy Otter Scripts and use the Import Assist feature, which will allow you to import your iPhone videos direct into Vegas, and many smart phone users are having success with that workflow. You can test it in the Veg trial version.

There is an app for iPhone that will allow you to record constant frame rate video direct to your phone. I don't remember what it is called, but from what I have read it does a good job, is inexpensive and has other features you will probably like as well. Then try a bunch of test videos.

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AstralPhaser schrieb am 19.04.2019 um 06:21 Uhr

Interestingly enough the issue with Vegas 16 was related to gpu rendering being turned on, not a general issue with VFR like I have with Vegas 13.

Now I’m in another bit of a pickle. I’m finding my ax100 too bulky to carry around (plus, it sucks for walking videos due to no image stabilization without quality loss as I have in my iPhone 7 Plus) and thus I’m filming videos on both my iPhone and ax100 depending on the situation and joining them together and dealing with different frame rates and audio level differences in the same video.

If I had a huawei p30 pro I would probably be able to ditch the ax100 and iPhone 7 Plus (2-3 hour battery life) and have a single device. Problem is, will the huawei p30 pro be better than my ax100 quality wise? It can shoot 4K at 60fps vs only 25 on my ax100, but what about dark scenes, audio quality (can I get an external mic to plug in with deadcat?).

I’m worried because I don’t know how you compare video specs beyond resolution, optical zoom and framerate. I’ve seen differences in 1080p footage across cameras but they are both 1080p, yet some are vastly superior. How can I know the huawei p30 pro will have better quality than my ax100?

This VFR support in Vegas Pro 16 has changed everything for me! Now I’m considering changing my main camera... Maybe I should make a new topic for this?

Dexcon schrieb am 19.04.2019 um 15:20 Uhr

Though it may not be an important consideration, it is worthwhile taking into account that the image sensor on the AX100 is 1", but the image sensor on the P30 Pro is very likely to be significantly smaller as is the case with most smartphones. Also, the optical zoom of the P30 is x5 rather than x12 on the AX100 - if you are reluctant to use the AX100's stabilisation due to quality loss, then going beyond x5 on the P30 by the employment of digital zoom is surely going to reduce the number of pixels in the image regardless of how the phone compensates. Of course, it's a balance of the advantages and disadvantages of each option.

Another consideration - is YT image quality that high to disregard the minor loss of pixels on the AX100 (or any other video camera for that matter) with stabilisation activated? Going YT isn't exactly the same quality-wise as delivering for a cinema release I would have thought.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & 22, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 19.0.3, BCC 2025, Mocha Pro 2025.0, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX11 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11:

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

 

LAPTOP:

Dell Inspiron 5310 EVO 13.3"

i5-11320H CPU

C Drive: 1TB Corsair Gen4 NVMe M.2 2230 SSD (upgraded from the original 500 GB SSD)

Monitor is 2560 x 1600 @ 60 Hz