100% Zoom (and Beyond) in Vegas

Comments

Musicvid wrote on 10/3/2021, 12:46 PM

Maybe asking too much but is there a way to click-and-drag the non-scaled image in the preview so you can shift to the specific part of the frame you want to work on at 100%?

I'm sorry; It appears I completely misunderstood your question. Best of luck with your feature request.

ALO wrote on 10/3/2021, 3:14 PM

it's okay -- Vegas can do this. Just not directly. As per DougT's suggestion, right-click on the preview window, uncheck "scale video...", then use your clip pan/crop dialogue to pan to whatever part of the image you want to see at 1-to-1. It's a workaround, but it's a lot better than nothing!

Musicvid wrote on 10/3/2021, 4:06 PM

Yes, that was precisely the workararound I suggested,...

Have a better day.

ALO wrote on 10/3/2021, 5:52 PM

Yes, that was precisely the workararound I suggested,...

I think it's nap time for me. Thanks for the help!

3POINT wrote on 10/4/2021, 3:57 AM

it's okay -- Vegas can do this. Just not directly. As per DougT's suggestion, right-click on the preview window, uncheck "scale video...", then use your clip pan/crop dialogue to pan to whatever part of the image you want to see at 1-to-1. It's a workaround, but it's a lot better than nothing!

Just playing around, for me the easiest workaround to zoom into a part of the preview to 100% AND beyond is the solution of J-Toresen. Just add the PIP-FX (with scale set to 10 or so) to the preview (preview set to best/full) drag with your mouse in the preview to the part of the image you want to see, do your judging (sharpness, noise reduction or whatever) and when done, mute the PIP FX in the preview to return to normal/unzoomed preview again. Next image to judge, unmute PIP FX in preview and drag to the desired position and so on.

 

Last changed by 3POINT on 10/4/2021, 3:59 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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EricLNZ wrote on 10/4/2021, 4:47 AM

@3POINT What about using it to precisely locate nodes for Bezier Curve masking?

J-Toresen wrote on 10/4/2021, 9:57 AM

I will add that if you use my workaround, you can see the zoom and pan on an external monitor.

Jøran Torsesen

ALO wrote on 10/4/2021, 1:42 PM

I will add that if you use my workaround, you can see the zoom and pan on an external monitor.

Jøran Torsesen

My concern with these greater-than-100% workarounds is that I think Vegas is resampling the image rather than just zooming. So if you're using them for pixel-critical work, you're actually operating on an incorrect preview. I looked at the PIP fx, and as far as I can tell, it is algorithmically resampling rather than just zooming in.

(by resampling I mean Vegas is upscaling the crop to fit the preview window, rather than mapping each original pixel to 2x2 or 4x4 ... etc. So a 200% or 300% crop used to assess sharpness, for example, wouldn't show you what your actual image looks like)

Musicvid wrote on 10/4/2021, 7:41 PM

I'm perplexed by your terminology -- Vegas uses raster graphics internally as do all NLEs including Resolve.

With raster graphics, the maximum ideal scale is 100%, and >100% is destructive no matter how you do it. It's that simple.

So you will never see all the pixel details like you're used to in Photoshop, nor would any "upscaling" algorithm make that possibe were it available on the Vegas preview buss.

 

ALO wrote on 10/5/2021, 9:17 AM

I'm perplexed by your terminology -- Vegas uses raster graphics internally as do all NLEs including Resolve.

This is a simple but important distinction. I'm using the term "zoom" to mean "enlarging without changing." In that sense, zoom is not destructive -- no information is being changed. It's just being presented at a different scale.

Imagine I could magically enlarge the pixels on your computer screen (or heck: I could just replace your existing screen with a larger one with the same resolution). I would call that "zoom". Obviously, it is not in any way destructive to the image -- but it would make it easier for you to see small details in the frame (I could also give you a magnifying glass -- same thing).

Alternately, I could take a 1920x1080 image and upsample it to 3840x2160 using an algorithm that attempts to reproduce what the image would have looked like if it had been captured at a higher resolution. I'm going to call that "resampling" the image. That's destructive.

If your goal is to see what's happening within your image at high zoom powers, you want to use method 1. Method 2 becomes further and further removed from usefulness the higher you scale in -- because basically your algorithm is inventing a whole new (featureless) image.

Method one -- zooming -- does not require magically enlarging pixels or constantly swapping out larger screens. All you have to do is map individual pixels to a 2x2 square. One pixel becomes four identical pixels in the new image. You can iterate that doubling as many times as you want. If you want, you can see individual source pixels presented as squares of identical pixels 100x100 screen pixels across.

My ultimate point here is if you are using a scaling algorithm to act like a zoom function, you are working on a (slightly-or-significantly) different image from the one you think you're working on.

 

ALO wrote on 10/5/2021, 2:07 PM

This is not a vector vs raster issue, or a feature request per se. I'm just pointing out that if you use an interpolation-based workaround to create a preview view-->zoom function in Vegas, you're not necessarily seeing what you think you're seeing.

Check out this masterpiece I shot earlier today:

If you zoom far enough into the center of this image in Photoshop (control + "+"), you will eventually see (enlarged) individual black pixels adjacent to individual white pixels, exactly the same as if you used a powerful magnifying glass to look at your computer screen.

If, on the other hand, you use Vegas' pan-and-crop in an attempt to mimic Photoshop's view-->zoom function, you will see something very different.

I don't know how important that is, real-world, for Vegas users (the difference is only apparent at extreme levels of magnification). But I think it's important, conceptually, to understand the difference. Make sense?

fifonik wrote on 10/6/2021, 5:53 AM

I'd like to have an ability to zoom in/out and move image in preview.

Do not know if this is implemented in other NLEs, but Neat Video plugin do have such feature and it is implemented very straightforward and easy to use (for me): mouse wheel over image -- zoom in/out, Middle Mouse Button + drag -- move (if zoomed > 100%).

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Dexcon wrote on 10/6/2021, 6:10 AM

I'd like to have an ability to zoom in/out and move image in preview.

I couldn't agree more. It's been a feature request mentioned on the forum from time-to-time in recent years. Going back years, even DVD Architect could do this though it is/was clunky (preset zoom levels and V/H handles rather than freehand via the mouse).

HitFilm Pro has this function as does NBFX Titler Pro, Boris FX Title Studio (I think) and Mocha Pro to varying degrees of flexibility.

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walter-i. wrote on 10/6/2021, 2:38 PM

I'd like to have an ability to zoom in/out and move image in preview.

Do not know if this is implemented in other NLEs, but Neat Video plugin do have such feature and it is implemented very straightforward and easy to use (for me): mouse wheel over image -- zoom in/out, Middle Mouse Button + drag -- move (if zoomed > 100%).

+1

stevefoobar2 wrote on 12/5/2021, 12:09 PM

I completely agree that not having the ability to zoom in within the Video Preview window is a serious limitation, especially when using Picture in Picture, planar motion tracking, Bézier masking, and mesh effects. As tracked objects get smaller and smaller, the AI tracker loses them completely. The only way to track these types of objects once AI loses them is to highly zoom in and continue manually tracking where the AI lost the track. Without this zoom feature, one can only do very simplistic tracking and masking of very large objects in the video frame that don't change in size all that much. Objects moving from foreground to background get very small as they fade into the sunset you might say. Tracking objects that just move across the screen in high contrast video is a no-brainer for most tracking software and for Vegas. I realize that Vegas isn't a post-production system and isn't a professional level post tracker at this price point, but at least having a zoom function would help a lot for tracking and all the things others have mentioned above.

stevefoobar2 wrote on 12/5/2021, 1:07 PM

By the way, is there an official place to make (or check previous) feature requests? Thanks.

walter-i. wrote on 12/5/2021, 1:46 PM

Yes, this thread here:
https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-19-feature-requests--123432/

It is already very long, has been used for a few versions and recently it was discussed whether it should be made clearer by removing or marking the fulfilled points.
However, as this work is very tedious, no one has volunteered to do it.
We are sure that developers will keep revisiting this thread and use it as a repository of ideas.

stevefoobar2 wrote on 12/5/2021, 10:20 PM

Are there other NLEs you have that are able to resample >100% preview in realtime?

Resolve seems to do this pretty effortlessly. I don't know if it is resampling or just zooming.

I'm not that interested in a moving preview myself -- just the ability to zoom into still frames.

Exactly, and if you are doing very detailed key framing of small areas of the video frame, it's impossible to do so without a high zoom factor as you click and drag your PiP points for example.