Audio EFX Limiter in Vegas Pro -difference between OUT and clip gain?

marcinzm wrote on 11/23/2020, 12:27 PM

Hello,

 

I have a question regarding to Audio EFX Limiter in Vegas Pro 18.

I add this fx into master volume bar.

What is the difference between OUT (dB) and CLIP GAIN (dB) in the audio limiter in Vegas Pro 18 editing software?

I set two types of settings in the limiter:
a) clip gain -3 dB, treshold 0 dB, in 0 dB, out 0 dB, release 205 ms
I obtained integrated: -17.8 LUFS and peak: n -1.6 dB
b) clip gain 0 dB, treshold 0 dB, in 0 dB, out -3 dB, release 205 ms
I obtained integrated: -17.8 LUFS and peak: n -1.7 dB

Integrated values are on the same level -17.8 LUFS and peaks are similar, and what is the difference between clip gain and out in the limiter? Do these two audio tracks (a) and b)) sound the same?

I'll add that what I care about the most is that if the clip gain values are exceeded on all audio tracks together the limiter will squeeze the peak by -3 dB.

How to set it in the limiter, which has the sliders shown above?

Regards

Marcin

Last changed by marcinzm

If you are bored, drink water, you will want to pee. -> Albert Einstein - my idol!

I am 42. I have been creating videos since 2009 (the date when my first daughter was born in). My first video software was Pinnacle, next one was Sony Vegas 8 (I am not sure if remember it correctly). I am also a developer and wedding movie operator and editor. For example: I have created an Android app which let me control Vegas Pro rendering progress level on Android smartphone. I created it for fun, because I also love programming. I also created my own plugin for Audio To Text feature specified usage from Vegas Pro 19. I created proxy creation plugin which uses multiple GPU threads (maximum 3) to create proxy files for Vegas Pro. I also written many others plugin/softwares which enhance my video editing, also wedding editing.

Camera/video camera: Sony FX3, Sony A7 III, Sony FDR AX 100, Canon 5D Mark III, GoPro Hero Black 7,8,9,10

Lenses for Sony: Tamron 28-75mm F/2.8 Di III , Sony 24mm gm 1.4 FE, Sony 20 mm G FE 1.8

Lenses for Canon: Canon EF 24-70 mm F/2.8 L USM, Canon 70-200 f/2.8 L

Drone: DJI Mavic 3 & DJI Phantom 4 Pro v2.0

 

Editing: Vegas Pro 20 (365) with a lot of third party plugins, also my own plugins written in C#

 

PC:

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-7900X CPU @ 3.30GHz   3.31 GHz

RAM: 128 GB

GPU: Nvidia RTX 2080 TI

storage: 4 SSD drives (including two M.2 flash drives) and two HDD drives

Windows system: 10 Home edition

Comments

rraud wrote on 11/23/2020, 3:44 PM

Are your referring to the Magix cFX limiter? What do you mean by "clip gain"?

The cFX limiter has input gain adj. and an output ceiling parameter.

marcinzm wrote on 11/24/2020, 8:38 AM

I mean this eFX Limiter shown above.

I would like to know what clip gain means.

 

If you are bored, drink water, you will want to pee. -> Albert Einstein - my idol!

I am 42. I have been creating videos since 2009 (the date when my first daughter was born in). My first video software was Pinnacle, next one was Sony Vegas 8 (I am not sure if remember it correctly). I am also a developer and wedding movie operator and editor. For example: I have created an Android app which let me control Vegas Pro rendering progress level on Android smartphone. I created it for fun, because I also love programming. I also created my own plugin for Audio To Text feature specified usage from Vegas Pro 19. I created proxy creation plugin which uses multiple GPU threads (maximum 3) to create proxy files for Vegas Pro. I also written many others plugin/softwares which enhance my video editing, also wedding editing.

Camera/video camera: Sony FX3, Sony A7 III, Sony FDR AX 100, Canon 5D Mark III, GoPro Hero Black 7,8,9,10

Lenses for Sony: Tamron 28-75mm F/2.8 Di III , Sony 24mm gm 1.4 FE, Sony 20 mm G FE 1.8

Lenses for Canon: Canon EF 24-70 mm F/2.8 L USM, Canon 70-200 f/2.8 L

Drone: DJI Mavic 3 & DJI Phantom 4 Pro v2.0

 

Editing: Vegas Pro 20 (365) with a lot of third party plugins, also my own plugins written in C#

 

PC:

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-7900X CPU @ 3.30GHz   3.31 GHz

RAM: 128 GB

GPU: Nvidia RTX 2080 TI

storage: 4 SSD drives (including two M.2 flash drives) and two HDD drives

Windows system: 10 Home edition

rraud wrote on 11/24/2020, 10:35 AM

I have not used the eFX Limiter before .. nor do I intend to after playing around with it.. YMMV. I prefer other brick-wall limiters with a absolute output ceiling parameter on a master bus. For music projects I prefer a limiter that adds a characteristic sound. An UA-1176 for instance.

That said, The 'Clip Gain' in the eFX Limiter is an amplification setting which can induce distortion, it ain't pretty sounding distortion though, unlike the above vacuum tube type limiter which adds a nice warm saturation.

marcinzm wrote on 11/24/2020, 4:00 PM

1) Thank you for your response. Can you provide me a link to Vegas Pro 18 plugin with UA-1176 you use and you glad of using it?

2) Is UA-1176 plugin good for voice or maybe better for music? Will it worth purchasing for voice tracks?

Last changed by marcinzm on 11/24/2020, 4:01 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

If you are bored, drink water, you will want to pee. -> Albert Einstein - my idol!

I am 42. I have been creating videos since 2009 (the date when my first daughter was born in). My first video software was Pinnacle, next one was Sony Vegas 8 (I am not sure if remember it correctly). I am also a developer and wedding movie operator and editor. For example: I have created an Android app which let me control Vegas Pro rendering progress level on Android smartphone. I created it for fun, because I also love programming. I also created my own plugin for Audio To Text feature specified usage from Vegas Pro 19. I created proxy creation plugin which uses multiple GPU threads (maximum 3) to create proxy files for Vegas Pro. I also written many others plugin/softwares which enhance my video editing, also wedding editing.

Camera/video camera: Sony FX3, Sony A7 III, Sony FDR AX 100, Canon 5D Mark III, GoPro Hero Black 7,8,9,10

Lenses for Sony: Tamron 28-75mm F/2.8 Di III , Sony 24mm gm 1.4 FE, Sony 20 mm G FE 1.8

Lenses for Canon: Canon EF 24-70 mm F/2.8 L USM, Canon 70-200 f/2.8 L

Drone: DJI Mavic 3 & DJI Phantom 4 Pro v2.0

 

Editing: Vegas Pro 20 (365) with a lot of third party plugins, also my own plugins written in C#

 

PC:

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-7900X CPU @ 3.30GHz   3.31 GHz

RAM: 128 GB

GPU: Nvidia RTX 2080 TI

storage: 4 SSD drives (including two M.2 flash drives) and two HDD drives

Windows system: 10 Home edition

rraud wrote on 11/24/2020, 4:44 PM

The Universal Audio 1176 is a vintage outboard leveler (hardware). I would not consider it a good choice for VOs. There are plug-ins that 'emulate' the 1176 sound from Waves, IK, T- Racks, SF's legacy Wave Hammer and of coarse UA has it's own emulation version. For narration and such I like TDR's 'Limiter No.6', it has five stages but may be too complex for non-audio folks The popular LoudMax brickwall limiter/maximizer is simple to operate that has a max ceiling parameter and sounds pretty clean. The price is hard to beat,, free. I would put a soft-knee comp in front of it .

marcinzm wrote on 11/25/2020, 4:13 PM

Thank you. I did some tests today with LoudMax, I am very glad of using it. The sound of narration started to be more clear, but I have a question about the right order of editing audio.

What should I do as first - export audio track with (?) or without (?) loud max limiter apply, apply noise reduction and then import such edited audio track to Vegas and apply limiter or firstly apply loud max limiter and then apply noise reduction effect?

I want to add that I do noise reduction in external Audacity software. Maybe you know some better software or pluign for audio noise reduction than Audacity noise removal feature. Please share it wtih me. Maybe there is a noise reduction plugin as good as loud max vst plugin, you can recommend it to me.

I have Vegas Pro 18 Suite version.

-----

Edited: I have Sound Forge Pro 14. What are the differences between Dehisser and Noise Gate? What should it be applied for microphone noise? What is hiss?

Last changed by marcinzm on 11/25/2020, 4:52 PM, changed a total of 7 times.

If you are bored, drink water, you will want to pee. -> Albert Einstein - my idol!

I am 42. I have been creating videos since 2009 (the date when my first daughter was born in). My first video software was Pinnacle, next one was Sony Vegas 8 (I am not sure if remember it correctly). I am also a developer and wedding movie operator and editor. For example: I have created an Android app which let me control Vegas Pro rendering progress level on Android smartphone. I created it for fun, because I also love programming. I also created my own plugin for Audio To Text feature specified usage from Vegas Pro 19. I created proxy creation plugin which uses multiple GPU threads (maximum 3) to create proxy files for Vegas Pro. I also written many others plugin/softwares which enhance my video editing, also wedding editing.

Camera/video camera: Sony FX3, Sony A7 III, Sony FDR AX 100, Canon 5D Mark III, GoPro Hero Black 7,8,9,10

Lenses for Sony: Tamron 28-75mm F/2.8 Di III , Sony 24mm gm 1.4 FE, Sony 20 mm G FE 1.8

Lenses for Canon: Canon EF 24-70 mm F/2.8 L USM, Canon 70-200 f/2.8 L

Drone: DJI Mavic 3 & DJI Phantom 4 Pro v2.0

 

Editing: Vegas Pro 20 (365) with a lot of third party plugins, also my own plugins written in C#

 

PC:

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-7900X CPU @ 3.30GHz   3.31 GHz

RAM: 128 GB

GPU: Nvidia RTX 2080 TI

storage: 4 SSD drives (including two M.2 flash drives) and two HDD drives

Windows system: 10 Home edition

Musicvid wrote on 11/26/2020, 10:03 AM

In addition to @rraud's informed advice, never use any AGC in the chain when recording narration, as it makes background noise louder when you are not speaking.

rraud wrote on 11/26/2020, 10:08 AM

SF Pro 14 includes iZotope's RX elements (but not when included the w/ Vegas Pro package

RX elements is superior to the Audacity NR, and would not require leaving Sound Forge (or Vegas). I believe RX Elements is currently on sale at iZotope with a $100 savings..

A limiter is typically the final device a processing chain
De-hissers attenuate high frequency din type noise, usually associated with analog tape hiss.
A noise gate basically hard switches sound on and off based on a threshold. Gates can be quite audible and annoying. A similar 'expander' can be a little smoother. In the pro-audio music world, noise gates are popular for drum set tom-toms. I typically used expanders on noisy guitar amp channels ...or in a panel discussion mixing on-the-fly.

All that said, no noise reduction should be necessary for narration recordings. Undesirable sounds could be a result of poor set-up, microphone, preamp and/or the recording environment (extraneous noise leaking in).

marcinzm wrote on 11/26/2020, 11:14 AM

@Musicvid - what is AGC? You mean something like "auto iso" for microphone/audio?

@MusicVid, @rraud

What do you think about brusfri plugin? I heard many good opinions about it.

You mentioned that no noise reduction should be necessary for narration recordings. But I am not sure if you are right. I have two mics: Sennheiser MKE 600. and Rode VideoMic. Every microphones creates their own noise, because none device is not ideal as human ears. In Sennheiser I get 16 dB noise and Rode gives me 20 dB noise. I understand it as when I record silence both of these mics I get 16 dB and 20 dB of noise in recordings resectivly. Am I right? So such noise reduction for narration is good choice, isn`t it?

Do you mean this link: https://www.izotope.com/en/shop/rx-8-elements.html?

Is this plugin (apart from noise reduction), able to reduce wind blowing sounds from audio?

What is better brusfri or RX8 plugin for the noises/sounds I mentioned above?

 

Last changed by marcinzm on 11/26/2020, 11:17 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

If you are bored, drink water, you will want to pee. -> Albert Einstein - my idol!

I am 42. I have been creating videos since 2009 (the date when my first daughter was born in). My first video software was Pinnacle, next one was Sony Vegas 8 (I am not sure if remember it correctly). I am also a developer and wedding movie operator and editor. For example: I have created an Android app which let me control Vegas Pro rendering progress level on Android smartphone. I created it for fun, because I also love programming. I also created my own plugin for Audio To Text feature specified usage from Vegas Pro 19. I created proxy creation plugin which uses multiple GPU threads (maximum 3) to create proxy files for Vegas Pro. I also written many others plugin/softwares which enhance my video editing, also wedding editing.

Camera/video camera: Sony FX3, Sony A7 III, Sony FDR AX 100, Canon 5D Mark III, GoPro Hero Black 7,8,9,10

Lenses for Sony: Tamron 28-75mm F/2.8 Di III , Sony 24mm gm 1.4 FE, Sony 20 mm G FE 1.8

Lenses for Canon: Canon EF 24-70 mm F/2.8 L USM, Canon 70-200 f/2.8 L

Drone: DJI Mavic 3 & DJI Phantom 4 Pro v2.0

 

Editing: Vegas Pro 20 (365) with a lot of third party plugins, also my own plugins written in C#

 

PC:

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-7900X CPU @ 3.30GHz   3.31 GHz

RAM: 128 GB

GPU: Nvidia RTX 2080 TI

storage: 4 SSD drives (including two M.2 flash drives) and two HDD drives

Windows system: 10 Home edition

rraud wrote on 11/26/2020, 3:07 PM

I have not used the Brusfri NR, it appears to be a consumer oriented device. I use iZ's RX and the SF NR 2.0 suite. I recently started using Steinberg's SpectraLayers Pro 7 for restoration work, I was blown away.

btw, Sorry, I confused iZ's RX Elements with Ozone Elements.. Ozone is on sale.

As I stated, a properly recorded VO should not need noise reduction. EQ, compression and such are normal processes. If your recording environment is noisy, than sure, whatever it takes,