Can VEGAS be made Epic

adis-a3097 wrote on 8/8/2019, 7:28 PM

...by letting it run on EPYC, under LINUX? πŸ™‚

https://www.cbronline.com/news/new-hpe-servers

https://www.cbronline.com/news/amd-epyc-rome-launch

backed up by some RADEON INSTINCTSs MI60? That's not too bad, I think.

What I also wish for is ArriRaw and Sony's X-OCN native support, and beyond that, a DCP & IMF ad-hoc creator, from the time line, a la BluRay or DVD which is already there. Dolby Atmos later...as well as some C4D integration, or something.

That's as Pro and as Epic as I can imagine at the moment!

And someone please fix that PNG, WMPhoto, EXR and TIFF export when exporting image sequences from ACES projects: everything goes completely out of wack, it's an abomination how out of wack it is. πŸ˜‚ In 32 bit projects (non ACES, float - video levels) image sequence export is kinda ok, but only if you import it as image sequence back into Vegas, you only have to adjust gamma then (set to 2.222) - in other application, say Windows Photo Viewer, image is slightly brighter than it was in Vegas's Video Preview before the export. DPX export works fine under ACES though, but not with 32 bit projects (non ACES, float - video levels) - again, you have to adjust the gamma to 2.222 when imported back as image sequence into 32 bit project, and with the same image sequence imported into 8 bit project, the image is brighter overall. Check it out, please!

In 8 bit everything works fine, I mean exporting wise. πŸ™‚

Comments

Musicvid wrote on 8/9/2019, 6:56 PM

You have made multiple feature requests as well as giving anecdotes of 32 bit float project behavior with 8 bit source (I assume), that have already been discussed to eternity here, and that are not likely to change soon.

To get sensible peer response, even in the off-topic area, Start with oneΒ issue, document and troubleshoot per the instructions and guides, provide detailed examples, and a repeatable workflow that others here can reproduce.

Since you have an interest in higher level discussion, there is an abundance of background reading and resources that will benefit you as you make inquiries such as these:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/10-bit-vs-8-bit-grading-the-musical--111748/

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/this-is-not-about-grading--114804/

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/important-information-required-to-help-you--110457/

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-faqs-and-troubleshooting-guides--104787/

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-tutorials--103245/

And Welcome to the Forum Discussions!

adis-a3097 wrote on 8/9/2019, 9:39 PM

You have made multiple feature requests as well as giving anecdotes of 32 bit float project behavior with 8 bit source (I assume), that have already been discussed to eternity here, and that are not likely to change soon.

Actually not, I was talking about exporting RED's 16 bit R3Ds in form of individual images, as images is what's accepted by, say, easyDCP Creator+, when preparing for DCP creation, because that's what I do after editing/montage and coloring. I'm using an older version of said software that doesn't allow for, say, ProRes or MPEG import. And newer one would cost me 2,380.00 €, which I'm not ready to pay for. Sadly (or luckily) ProRes, MPEG and AVC export works perfect under ACES in Vegas.

Consider my writing a wishful thinking, that's why I put in OFF TOPIC in the first place. πŸ™‚

To get sensible peer response, even in the off-topic area, Start with oneΒ issue, document and troubleshoot per the instructions and guides, provide detailed examples, and a repeatable workflow that others here can reproduce.

Since you have an interest in higher level discussion, there is an abundance of background reading and resources that will benefit you as you make inquiries such as these:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/10-bit-vs-8-bit-grading-the-musical--111748/

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/this-is-not-about-grading--114804/

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/important-information-required-to-help-you--110457/

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-faqs-and-troubleshooting-guides--104787/

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-tutorials--103245/

Β 

Being a long time lurker, I've read them all.

And Welcome to the Forum Discussions!

Thank you, Musicvid, much appreciated! πŸ™‚

Musicvid wrote on 8/10/2019, 2:49 PM

In 8 bit everything works fine, I mean exporting wise.Β πŸ™‚

Yes, 8 bit is meant for importing, processing, and exporting 8 bit, including your image files..

Being a long time lurker, I've read them all.

I'm not getting that impression. You would do well to actually study my first two links, rather than dismiss them lightly.

Or, in a sentence anyone can relate to, "Processing 8 bit integer in a 32 bit float pipeline does not work."

And someoneΒ pleaseΒ fix that PNG, WMPhoto, EXR and TIFF export when exporting image sequences from ACES projects: everything goes completely out of wack, it's an abomination how out of wack it is.Β 

The devil is in the math and colorspace dissimilarities, not due to some development fail.

adis-a3097 wrote on 8/10/2019, 8:23 PM

I'm not getting that impression. You would do well to actually study my first two links, rather than dismiss them lightly.

Or, in a sentence anyone can relate to, "Processing 8 bit integer in a 32 bit float pipeline does not work."

With all due respect, none of them addresses my issues. Not once does the ACES pop up either.

This isn't your average 8 bit image file:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YRmjGyfV7gwm87dyQzGgwfnaHVuwQLMP/view?usp=sharing

It's a so called RAW R3D snapshot, taken out of R3D video file.

Here are couple of examples of what I'm talking about, if you care to investigate that is: πŸ™‚

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vGAfpgVQL1EBNAnbNhnx5gk17V0ZSAwu/view?usp=sharing

Since I can't open a .dpx file in Windows Photo Viewer, I use this instead:

http://djv.sourceforge.net/Download.html

djv_view matches Vegas's video preview - before export.

Then, you export a .dpx, import it back in Vegas (8 bit) and you have a mismatch. But you don't in easyDCP creator, or djv_view. DCP I make on may PC, using this workflow, translates well in theater.

The devil is in the math and colorspace dissimilarities, not due to some development fail.

Not that I disagree, I only say that that makes Vegas incompatible with other image/video apps. Veeery hard to work that way. Maybe everybody else got it wrong, who knows, I don't...πŸ™‚

Musicvid wrote on 8/10/2019, 11:33 PM

There may be a workflow that suits your needs, and Marco may have some ideas; I'm pretty sure that exporting 8 bit from 32 bit project, with or without ACES, is not the way to get there in Vegas. That's a historical observation. ACES are not really the root of the behavior, although they would certainly contribute to it.

Your links are not working here btw. If you can get the downloads working, feel encouraged to post step-by-step directions to reproduce. Someone will actually look at them on this forum.

adis-a3097 wrote on 8/11/2019, 12:18 AM

Strange that they don't work, I didn't forget to press share. Never mind, maybe later today, since I have other things to do now.

Thanks for your replies, Musicvid! πŸ™‚

Marco. wrote on 8/11/2019, 5:13 PM

"There may be a workflow that suits your needs, and Marco may have some ideas"

I wish I had but seems like I lost control over these too many ACES oddities.
For HQ outputs out of Vegas Pro float point ACES projects I tended to recommend EXR image sequences, but even these one meanwhile make some of my hairs turn grey and I see myself prefering video level float point projects over full range ones (just to avoid ACES).

adis-a3097 wrote on 8/12/2019, 12:45 AM

Hey, Marco, thanks for chiming in!

Did the download work for you?

Marco. wrote on 8/12/2019, 1:58 AM

Yes, I was able to download your files.

adis-a3097 wrote on 8/12/2019, 2:07 AM

Yes, I was able to download your files.


All of them? Can you repro?

Care to comment? πŸ™‚

Marco. wrote on 8/13/2019, 6:46 AM

"All of them?"

I think so.

"Can you repro?"

Not sure. For me this all ACES is growing confusion.

"Care to comment?"

I fear I can't because it's beyond my current scope, sorry.

adis-a3097 wrote on 8/13/2019, 7:53 AM

Dang...πŸ˜‚

Β 

Maybe some other time then. πŸ™‚

fr0sty wrote on 12/24/2019, 10:58 PM

Importing into Vegas shows the file is 8192x4320x48, R3D Video, so 8k 12 bit is what the OP is starting with, more than enough to justify using a 32 bit project, but not if the final output is going back to 8 bit. What bit depth are you wanting to export at?

Also, are you sure that windows isn't displaying a high bit depth image at a lower bit depth? I have 2 monitors, one HDR, and one SDR, when I play my HDR videos on my SDR screen, the levels aren't the same (way overexposed in SDR), so are you sure this is an issue specific to Vegas or ACES? Rendering 8 bit is of course going to look good, if the output is viewed on an 8 bit screen. Tell us a bit about your hardware setup (what bit depth your screen is, for instance) and what bit depth and color spaces you are aiming to export at, and I might be able to help.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Radeon VII

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

adis-a3097 wrote on 12/25/2019, 10:01 AM

Importing into Vegas shows the file is 8192x4320x48, R3D Video, so 8k 12 bit is what the OP is starting with, more than enough to justify using a 32 bit project, but not if the final output is going back to 8 bit. What bit depth are you wanting to export at?

Also, are you sure that windows isn't displaying a high bit depth image at a lower bit depth? I have 2 monitors, one HDR, and one SDR, when I play my HDR videos on my SDR screen, the levels aren't the same (way overexposed in SDR), so are you sure this is an issue specific to Vegas or ACES? Rendering 8 bit is of course going to look good, if the output is viewed on an 8 bit screen. Tell us a bit about your hardware setup (what bit depth your screen is, for instance) and what bit depth and color spaces you are aiming to export at, and I might be able to help.

Hi there, fr0sty!

Β 

It's 3x16 bit RGB actually (48 bit), that's how R3D gets decoded, not 4x12 bit, since R3D is "alphaless".

Well, in order to make a DCP, I have to render an image sequence first - that's ususally 16 bit DPX, since DPX, when imported into easyDCP Creator+, matches well to what I see in Vegas's preview window, but only when done in ACES pipeline. DPX seq. done in 32 float non-ACES, imported into easyDCP Creator+, is a mismatch to Vegas preview. Same DPX seq. imported back into Vegas is also a mismatch to Vegas itself. With TIFF 32 float non-ACES project, Vegas matches itself, but nothing else.

In general, making DCPs is the reason I use ACES workflow in the first place, since making image sequences in 8 bit project, off of R3Ds, is so not-pro, if you know what I mean. Plus, rendering to 8 bit AVC or MPEG works like a charm with ACES. BluRays are not a problem.

Β 

I don't do HDR, my monitor is 8 bit, and I'm only focused on 709/P3, so...can't tell.