Does that colour space actually make any sense for video? I wasn't aware that cameras used that colour space for video (maybe some do) or any TV's, monitors, etc that would be display referenced to that space.

How would this work?

What purpose would an ICC profile serve in video?

Most people here don't want to have yet another color space discussion, but I'll ask a few background questions.

1) Does your camera or other source acquire video in Adobe RGB?

2) How are you delivering your work to the viewer(s)?

Most people here don't want to have yet another color space discussion, but I'll ask a few background questions.

1) Does your camera or other source acquire video in Adobe RGB?

2) How are you delivering your work to the viewer(s)?

Yes, my camera records in AdobeRGB as an option which I use for a reason. I am delivering .mov files using the .png codec without any compression, which matches my footage out of camera and compresses no color information.

What purpose would an ICC profile serve in video?

It would be able to properly import still frames from AdobeRGB by itself, without my having to convert to sRGB first.

Does that colour space actually make any sense for video? I wasn't aware that cameras used that colour space for video (maybe some do) or any TV's, monitors, etc that would be display referenced to that space.

How would this work?

No, it does not make sense for video in most cases and for most people. I suppose now you are aware that some cameras do use that color space. How would what work?

"It would be able to properly import still frames from AdobeRGB by itself, without my having to convert to sRGB first."

I think you'll find that there is no requirement in Vegas Pro to convert to sRGB first. In fact, I would not do any conversion on the input files. Could you post a still or short snippet of your source to a cloud share and post the link here? Don't upload the files here on the chance that this site will process them.

It's likely you can develop a workflow in Vegas to accomplish your objective, but you must learn how Vegas works, which is different than many other NLEs.

"... some cameras do use that color space."

In my recent camera trials, I've become aware that the Sony RX10 IV has an option to save stills to the Adobe RGB color space. I've found no similar setting for video.

"... some cameras do use that color space."

In my recent camera trials, I've become aware that the Sony RX10 IV has an option to save stills to the Adobe RGB color space. I've found no similar setting for video.

Yes, it is clear my camera is not the only one. I'm hoping someone has an answer to this. I'm guessing since there's no mention of it in the changelog or otherwise that I've found, that Vegas is incapable of properly importing AdobeRGB files, therefore unable to eliminate my need to rely on Premiere Pro.

I doubt Vegas Pro would decode AdobeRGB properly in regards of color management.

Which camera is this?

Using Adobe RGB for video is not advised. It tends to result in duller, flatter colors when compared to sRGB. Case in point:

For print, there can be advantages, but not for video.

Using Adobe RGB for video is not advised. It tends to result in duller, flatter colors when compared to sRGB. Case in point:

Firstly, your case in point is not verifiably reliable because way too many variables are not included. However, it illustrates the very reason I require the AdobeRGB color space, for the lower contrast which is achieved through a larger color gamut.

For print, there can be advantages, but not for video.

Wrong. There are advantages for those who need it.

I doubt Vegas Pro would decode AdobeRGB properly in regards of color management.

Which camera is this?

Doubt all you want. I know. It does and makes all the difference for my needs.

I'm still hoping someone can answer the question, which is whether or not Vegas 14 or 15 can properly import from AdobeRGB color space and work with it natively. I really don't need to argue why you don't use AdobeRGB or why I Do. I simply am looking for more in-depth specifications about Vegas.

"It would be able to properly import still frames from AdobeRGB by itself, without my having to convert to sRGB first.

I think you'll find that there is no requirement in Vegas Pro to convert to sRGB first. In fact, I would not do any conversion on the input files. Could you post a still or short snippet of your source to a cloud share and post the link here? Don't upload the files here on the chance that this site will process them.

I would have thought this too. However, It is not. Believe me, I've done the testing. Yes, I have snippets but no I cannot upload (copyright.) I've exported every which way including identical codecs, settings and done side by side comparisons with for example, .mov using png codec and no compression. I've compared side by side h264, Avid codecs, jpeg2000, etc.. In all cases, Premiere version outputs better side by side. When I did the same comparisons using sRGB files in both, guess what, they look the same. I've also sent them to my friend who is longer Vegas user than me (15 yrs. or so) and he was enlightened by my snippets (I did send to him.) He was, for lack of a better word, clueless actually with regards to this since it's not something he uses. Converting to sRGB solves the problem for anyone who will be viewing on sRGB monitors and the like, but some of my users also use AdobeRGB screens or close to it (wider than sRGB at any rate, so even if Vegas were to import via converting (rather than just ignoring color profile or bad conversion engine; one of which Vegas Pro 13 does) this still doesn't solve it for me.. I'm a rare user actually requiring AdobeRGB support.

It's likely you can develop a workflow in Vegas to accomplish your objective, but you must learn how Vegas works, which is different than many other NLEs.

Ya, I'm still hoping version 14 or 15 can use AdobeRGB. I've been waiting a long time though, so I can wait longer if I must. It just kind of blows to be stuck on Adobe for now.

I am trying to keep and open mind, but I remain skeptical that there is any advantage to this, even in Premiere Pro.

I accept that your camera (and many others for a long time) can capture STILLS in Adobe RGB, but video? Which camera does that?

In any case, somewhere in the pipeline those stills will be processed into a video format and played back on one of several devices that may or may not support Adobe RGB (i.e., why would a TV support Adobe RGB?) Surely the conversions done in the NLE will be between sRGB and YUV, not Adobe RGB?

Anyway, to the OP, can you provide some sort of proof of the difference? I am keeping an open mind :)

I am trying to keep and open mind, but I remain skeptical that there is any advantage to this, even in Premiere Pro.

Try it for yourself then. Do you have any version of Adobe Premiere CS2 or newer? OR access to? Shoot 15 night time moonlit stills in .raw AdobeRGB format. Then import into Vegas and Premiere both. Be sure to use 32 bit floating point bit depth in both, and also be sure to disable resample on the stills in Vegas (ugh) and export both using .mov format using png codec and no compression. Or .avi without compression. Or H264 for that matter. If you export to .mp4 you'll just get candy fake looking in both, so skip that one. Try it if you doubt it. Try it every way you can try it. I did. I doubted it too. I had ot figure out the painfully long way what was going on. So can you if you like/must and I do recommend it.

I accept that your camera (and many others for a long time) can capture STILLS in Adobe RGB, but video? Which camera does that?

I do not know.

In any case, somewhere in the pipeline those stills will be processed into a video format and played back on one of several devices that may or may not support Adobe RGB (i.e., why would a TV support Adobe RGB?) Surely the conversions done in the NLE will be between sRGB and YUV, not Adobe RGB?

Anyway, to the OP, can you provide some sort of proof of the difference? I am keeping an open mind :)

I may be able to upload the clips I've made and sent to my friend..The thing is, I am also paying data rates at the moment and already paid once to upload to him. I might add that the reason I was sending to him was why he needs Premiere if he is to edit my footage. You see, we've been (mostly I've been) trying to figure out why Vegas simply cannot output equal quality as Premiere no matter what settings are used. He's tried, I've tried, and it took years of on and off trying to finally get to the root of the problem. I may post a private YouTube link. But just try it for yourself. That way there can be NO DOUBT. Try it for yourself and that way you'll know I'm not just making some stupid mistake or missing some setting adjustment or other. And please, post results and or findings verifying or disproving me. I'd seriously love to be wrong about this. Therefore I implore you to try it for yourself. I predict you'll get something that does not look as good from Vegas unless you convert to sRGB before importing no matter what output codec is used.

I am trying to keep and open mind, but I remain skeptical that there is any advantage to this, even in Premiere Pro.

I accept that your camera (and many others for a long time) can capture STILLS in Adobe RGB, but video? Which camera does that?

In any case, somewhere in the pipeline those stills will be processed into a video format and played back on one of several devices that may or may not support Adobe RGB (i.e., why would a TV support Adobe RGB?) Surely the conversions done in the NLE will be between sRGB and YUV, not Adobe RGB?

When using the same export codec, you're right, it would depend on the export codec being used and in most cases at current, it's going to get compressed into sRGB color space. However, it is on upon import that the color information is lost if AdobeRGB color space isn't being recognized. Therefore colors are immediately translated into their slightly off new colors. As important is the fact that when making color, exposure, or most adjustments within Vegas, you're also working with a smaller color gamut. Particularly in the blues (think night skies. This giving you less color information to bend through adjustments in Vegas, and ultimately a lower quality image before you ever go to render in what would should be the exact same codec in Premiere Pro or Vegas. My point is, there are cases where as much color information as possible to edit with makes a huge difference. It is not as simple as export and watch on an sRGB monitor, which to be fair is most often the case. Not in my case, however.

Anyway, to the OP, can you provide some sort of proof of the difference? I am keeping an open mind :)

 

In fact I will post two video clips I've made as a comparison. One imported into Premiere Pro, the other into Vegas. Both from the same 15 stills. Both using the same settings as close as options allow anyway, some options exist in each software, but both I've turned off any resampling in Vegas for example, or recompressing of stills in Premiere.. that sort of thing. Both I've exported using .mov codec with none for compression option in both. Both the same size, speed, etc. as closely matched as is humanly possible. I've actually done it with multiple formats and even played with some options. I've made probably at least 40 different comparisons over the course of several years . I suggest everyone with doubt, which I've come to realize is most responders in forums since the answer is pretty much "you don't need it (because it can't do it)" everywhere in the forums with regards to color spaces, 16 bit, etc. otherwise high bandwidth output. In most cases that may be true, but there are exceptions where, for lack of better general term I am using as high bandwidth output offers a noticeable improvement. try it for yourself and work it into your workflow if you see fit before criticizing.

If you only have Vegas and not Premiere Pro, you can still try the test. Shoot 15 stills in sequence at night in moonlit conditions. Think 15 or 20 second exposures and skies with little gradation. 16 bit files using AdobeRGB color space. Make a copy of those files and convert them to sRGB color space using for example, the ACE color engine or any color engine of quality for that matter which recognizes AdobeRGB.. Then import all 30 stills into Vegas and export as .mov using png codec and no compression. Easy test. If you try it, you'll know, and you can use that knowledge in your workflow. If I'm wrong, you can come back and say I told you so and then we can figure out what you've done differently from me. I predict you'll see the same results I did, however.

Wow, that's a bit too aggressive for me. Mind now CLOSED.

I'm still hoping someone can answer the question, which is whether or not Vegas 14 or 15 can properly import from AdobeRGB color space and work with it natively.

No, it will not.

That being the case, the rest is jabberwocky.

Wow, that's a bit too aggressive for me. Mind now CLOSED.

Good that your mind is now settled I suppose because if you remember, I did not post wanting to change your mind about anything and I also did not want to have to argue, offer evidence, etc.. I was asking about some specs on Vegas. In particular whether or not it can use the AdobeRGB color space. I'm sorry if you felt I was being aggressive, but in fact I felt I was being attacked for wanting to use the AdobeRGB color space and was defending my "right" to do so.. :) I think the answer is that it is not currently capable, and therefore I will hope it is worked into future versions along with other wide gamut RGB color spaces.

still waiting to read what VIDEO camera actually shoots adobeRGB, and in what wrapper?

until you answer this all else is pointless.

Nobody is attacking anybody here, just pointing out that there are far better ways to achieve lower contrast than using a non-standard color space for video that is just going to have to get converted to another color space anyway before delivery. If you want accuracy, as in knowing that the color you see is going to be the color they see, it's better to use more standardized formats.

Vegas Pro is perfectly capable of working in the Adobe RGB color space. So long as you don't engage ACES, Vegas Pro doesn't know or care about the color space of its input media, the monitor, or the output media. It's not color managed, which means you are effectively working in the color space of your monitor, whatever that is. So if you import media in the Adobe RGB color space and your monitor displays in the Adobe RGB color space, you are working in Adobe RGB, and your rendered output will be in Adobe RGB. Premiere Pro isn't color managed either, so it's the exact same situation there. But there are differences in how each program reads still image formats. E.g., Vegas Pro can't read any 16-bit still image format correctly.

If you want help you'll need to be more explicit about which camera and formats you're using, what kind of monitor you have, and how you intend to deliver the video.

stills in .raw AdobeRGB format.

I'm not sure which .raw format you're talking about, but true sensor raw images are not in any color space. They are just raw sensor data - no colors at all.

@balazer

Thank you for that. It is the kind of discourse that is informative and makes sense. In your opinion, would there be a noticeable benefit from using AdobeRGB still images over sRGB images in typical viewing situations ( e.g. TV, youtube, etc.)? Is there an even better stills colour space to use?

Well Adobe RGB has a wider gamut than BT.709/sRGB, so it can display more saturated colors. But there's no standard way of delivering video in Adobe RGB or in any other stills color space, which makes getting the right colors on anyone else's screen a manual and unpredictable process. If you want to reach an audience with your wider gamut images, an HDR color space like Hybrid Log Gamma or PQ is the way to go. YouTube actually supports those on a growing number of devices.