Color Grading glitches(V19)

bvideo wrote on 8/20/2021, 11:39 PM

Vegas 19. Some catastrophic image corruption happened playing some stills in my project while I was adjusting the Range Limited Color Wheels. So I went into testing mode.

I reset Vegas first. Then I created an image with some color bands for my testing, but I think the same things will happen with any image or with a video event.

Here's my recipe if anyone would like to do a sanity check.

I made a simple project (HD-1080 30p, [ ] Adjust source media ... is checked) with my jpg (3840X2160) on the timeline twice together, 3 seconds duration each. Then made a loop across the two, and started playback with loop enabled. My objective was to have color grading on one copy and not the other. Watching playback in a loop shows behavior related to the color grading by contrasting the grade-effected event behavior with the non-effected one. So I selected the first event, and hit alt-G. Now the color grading panel appeared, and the first clip showed there's an effect, while on the 2nd clip there still isn't. Also the video scopes window appeared, docked. I selected histogram with luminance/R/G/B, and "update scopes while playing". Continued to keep the first event selected, so the wheels stayed lit up. Didn't change any color stuff.

Now watching (sometimes for a couple of passes of the loop):

  1. The grey borders around the video scopes quiver slightly while playing the first event, but not the 2nd. Especially the right side.
  2. Occasionally there is a brief distortion in the preview ("preview (full)" and others) and the histograms jump too, only when playing the first event, not the 2nd.
  3. Alt-G closes the grading panel and closes the video scopes view. Now, no distortion in the preview.
  4. I open the video scopes again (now not docked). Now I see occasional preview distortions again and the border of the video scope window is flickering, but only when playing event 1. Color grading panel still closed.
  5. I try the "waveform" video scope view and all the same artifacts appear.
  6. I click on the [FX] of event 1 and delete color grading. No more artifacts.
  7. With event 1 still selected, alt-G opens color grading, assigns it to event 1, and docks video scopes. Artifacts happen again.
  8. I close the docked video scope and playback is pristine.

Thinking about whether it is display hardware, I go to help->Check for Driver Updates. I see that my Intel UHD 630 is version 27.20.100.9316, but I see the three following lines show "not found".

Thinking further about hardware, if it were only the preview misbehaving I could be slightly suspicious of graphics h/w, but it sure seems like it is a weird interaction between color grading and the video scopes view.

Just for fun, here's the image I used for testing.

I haven't yet figured out the original problem I had, the catastrophic image corruption related to RL Color Wheels, unless it is just a different, more extreme form of the distortion in this testing.

Comments

bvideo wrote on 8/21/2021, 12:27 AM

OK now I have some evidence for my original problem. If a pan/crop envelope is on a still, making any adjustment on the RL color wheels makes the image go black except it might flash on again briefly as the pan/crop envelope progresses.

Oh no, now there is something else... Adding color grading to an event that already has Upscale on it moves the upscale from before the pan/crop where it belongs to after the color grading which is inserted into the effects chain just after pan/crop.

RogerS wrote on 8/21/2021, 1:08 AM

Are you in 32-bit mode or 8-bit?

alifftudm95 wrote on 8/21/2021, 1:31 AM

Oh no, now there is something else... Adding color grading to an event that already has Upscale on it moves the upscale from before the pan/crop where it belongs to after the color grading which is inserted into the effects chain just after pan/crop.

I can confirm this, adding Color Grading to an Event that contain Upscale plugin, which supposedly to be on the first chain before Pan/Crop will move it beside CGP chain. It will be become incorrect order.

Correct: Upscale OFX/ Pan & Crop/ Color Grading Panel

Wrong (Bug or Expected?): Pan & Crop/ Color Grading Panel/ Upscale OFX

 

Last changed by alifftudm95 on 8/21/2021, 1:31 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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bvideo wrote on 8/21/2021, 1:32 AM

8-bit. Could be good to try 32-bit

RogerS wrote on 8/21/2021, 1:42 AM

8-bit. Could be good to try 32-bit


I'm not recommending 32-bit mode for a timeline made of 8-bit jpegs, just trying to understand your test conditions.

bvideo wrote on 8/21/2021, 6:04 PM

OK now I have some evidence for my original problem. If a pan/crop envelope is on a still, making any adjustment on the RL color wheels makes the image go black except it might flash on again briefly as the pan/crop envelope progresses.

Following up on my 2nd post, here is an image that demonstrates this image dropout

The image in my first post does not demonstrate image dropout. I'm guessing it's because the aspect ratio matches the project. This one does not.

My recipe:

Starting with an empty project (HD 1080-30p 8-bit ) drop this image (3648 X 2736 i.e. 4 X 3) into the timeline. (I have "automatically crop still images added to the timeline" set, and "new still images ..." length set to 5 seconds.) Make a loop region on the image and turn on looping playback. I select it and alt-G to bring up the color panel. I set various keyframes in pan/crop:

The first keyframe was from the "automatically crop ..." and the 2nd is a copy of that. The rest of the keyframes are various resizes, movements, and aspect ratio changes.

  1. Move one of the wheels in "RL Color Wheels". Starting playback shows the preview goes black after the 2nd keyframe. Then it flashes several times as the pan/crop envelope progresses, but mostly black. Looping back to the start, the preview is fine until after the 2nd keyframe again.
  2. Reset the Color Panel. Now it plays fine.
  3. Move one of the other kind (non-RL) of Color Wheels. It plays fine.
  4. Try some of the other Color Panel adjustments, resetting the color panel after each try. HSL: no problem, Color Curves: same blanking problem. Input/Output: Levels controls, no problem, Saturation, no problem, Log. Exposure does cause the blanking.
  5. Another observation: examining the progress of the pan/crop around the part of the playback where the image flashes on, I found some odd mismatches of the size or position of the previewed image compared with the parameters displayed in the pan/crop FX window. At one point in my project the Y Center moves from one frame to the next, not the size, but the preview changes width. With the timeline stopped at that point I reset the Color Panel and the width jumps to correct itself. In trying to reproduce this, it was hit and miss. But sometimes I saw position changes and sometimes size changes on the frames that were not black.
  6. Bypassing the color panel after seeing these playback blackouts yields normal playback.

Anyone up for trying this?

 

Musicvid wrote on 8/21/2021, 9:17 PM

8-bit. Could be good to try 32-bit

No, it couldn't ;?)

Thanks for your prodigious report.

Do the same things happen if you disable " GPU Acceleration of Video Processing" in Preferences?

bvideo wrote on 8/21/2021, 10:09 PM

I tried some of this testing on VP18(527). I could reproduce the glitches of my first post, the interaction between vector scopes and Color Grading. It took many passes before I saw the first glitch.

At a certain point I also saw the blanking I reported later in this thread. But it was not readily reproducible; after about 40 minutes the second one happened. After that, playback was really goofy, with alternating spells of the image being looped, black screen, and flashes of a different image on the timeline. I deleted that 2nd image but the playback looping over the first image still showed flashes of that 2nd image. I saved the project, closed vegas, then restarted the same project. No artifacts at all after about 15 minutes, so I quit.

bvideo wrote on 8/21/2021, 11:15 PM

@Musicvid After disabling " GPU Acceleration of Video Processing" the major glitches and blanking are gone. Only that tiny flickering of the video scopes border remains, and only if the event playing has a color grading effect assigned, even with all parameters reset and the panel closed. It's seemingly harmless and probably not even a clue for the original problems.

So there's the workaround. Thanks for that reminder. I should try finding a newer driver, but the latest has not always been the greatest. Up to the moment of seeing those glitches, the playback performance seemed pretty good. Without the GPU it has taken a big hit.

More shift-M...

RogerS wrote on 8/22/2021, 12:30 AM

Is your only GPU the Intel one? The driver you have looks recent and not in need of an update.
Do you have a different one for overall GPU acceleration?

bvideo wrote on 8/22/2021, 12:47 AM

@RogerS The Intel is my only GPU. And I did go trawling through Intel's drivers and saw only beta for newer drivers. For now, I'll set it back in use, ignore the color grading panel, and try some other software. (I was looking forward to the RL Wheels.) I should find a way to report all this to Magix.

Last changed by bvideo on 8/22/2021, 12:52 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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RogerS wrote on 8/22/2021, 1:54 AM

Hi BVideo, I tried to replicate. I took a 4:3 phone image and dropped it on a 1080p 30 timeline. I then when to crop and did a pan over the cutoff area and then a zoom. Then I went to RL color wheels and changed two of them. Then log exposure. I played back after each step of the way- worked fine.

Then I switched my video processing GPU from NVIDIA to the Intel 630. Your driver version isn't available to me. I'm on 27.20.100.8681. No change, it worked.

Could you make a copy of your .veg available (download from Google Drive or somewhere)? Happy to try to test exactly. If you can include a picture, even better. There's a lot better chance of getting it fixed if others can replicate it.

Musicvid wrote on 8/22/2021, 6:20 AM

@Musicvid After disabling " GPU Acceleration of Video Processing" the major glitches and blanking are gone.

Glad to hear it. Intel graphics may never have enough horsepower for glitch-free previewing, at least that's my experience.

Only that tiny flickering of the video scopes border remains, and only if the event playing has a color grading effect assigned, even with all parameters reset and the panel closed. It's seemingly harmless and probably not even a clue for the original problems.

That's correct. It is a separate, documented GUI quirk that should be fixed in the first update. You may get some relief by playing with the High DPI Scaling options.

So there's the workaround. Thanks for that reminder. I should try finding a newer driver, but the latest has not always been the greatest. Up to the moment of seeing those glitches, the playback performance seemed pretty good. Without the GPU it has taken a big hit.

Feel free to mark one of the replies as The Solution if you wish.

You may never achieve what you want with Intel Graphics. Again, they barely cut the cake; Nvidia 1660 or better is a suggested upgrade route since you will be doing 4K and maybe Vegas Post. And yes, you can live with the glitches or live with slower preview. There are no magical drivers available. Best of luck.

bvideo wrote on 8/22/2021, 12:52 PM

@RogerS Thanks for going to that trouble. Your result suggests I could go back to an earlier driver and try to reproduce. I don't have 8681 but I have 8581, 8935, and 9126 to try.

If it still fails I'll post my project. The stills I used are posted above.

@Musicvid Thanks for that advice on graphics. I was doing "Ok" for small effects chains and 1080 HD. For 4K I have no video sources at this time, just stills (and no professional obligations to upgrade). I was hoping for using the Color Grading to replace some individual FX and then check whether performance is improved and try whether equivalent LUTs change performance (though I'm guessing the Color Grading uses a single internal LUT generated from its parameters).

There is still the bug about reordering the upscale, but that bothers me only on one particular project.

bvideo wrote on 8/22/2021, 2:31 PM

@RogerS @Musicvid Rolled back to 27.20.100.8935, from around November last year, and both artifacts are gone! I also tried 9126, from around January this year, and it had the same problems I reported.

I see there have been many posts about problems with recent Intel drivers. The help->Check driver updates item shows "not found" for Intel drivers for each version I installed. I wonder if Magix disabled it or did Intel make things non-discoverable.

If you think it helpful I can still post the project. Mainly, I would like to be able to transmit all this to Magix if it seems likely they would be able to address it.

Musicvid wrote on 8/22/2021, 3:51 PM

With all due respect, Intel graphics may not command the same level of attention from developers as their more performance-capable counterparts.

As I stated before, your options are to upgrade or live with it.

As an Intel owner, I don't know of a third solution.

Best.

RogerS wrote on 8/22/2021, 9:05 PM

Rolled back to 27.20.100.8935, from around November last year, and both artifacts are gone! I also tried 9126, from around January this year, and it had the same problems I reported.

I see there have been many posts about problems with recent Intel drivers. The help->Check driver updates item shows "not found" for Intel drivers for each version I installed. I wonder if Magix disabled it or did Intel make things non-discoverable.

If you think it helpful I can still post the project. Mainly, I would like to be able to transmit all this to Magix if it seems likely they would be able to address it.

Really? I'm surprised that helped but glad it did!

FWIW this is my particular variety of the Intel HD 630.

One thing that seems to have changed between older and newer drivers is OpenCL support going from 2.1 to 3.0. Perhaps it introduced new errors along the way as after a disastrous upgrade to more recent Dell OEM drivers, I'm back to this DCH 2.1 driver and it's working fine.

Magix engineers do spend time in this forum so this is may already be something they will notice. They seem to work closely with Intel, AMD and NVIDIA so if there's a driver issue hopefully it can be resolved.

fifonik wrote on 8/22/2021, 9:29 PM

1. If I understand you correctly, I have the same issue since VP17. Reported it long time ago in forum and to Magix. Still not fixed (I have not checked VP19 yet, just got my serial this morning).

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RogerS wrote on 8/22/2021, 9:37 PM

This isn't about the known flickering scopes issue (primarily)

alternating spells of the image being looped, black screen, and flashes of a different image on the timeline. I deleted that 2nd image but the playback looping over the first image still showed flashes of that 2nd image

bvideo wrote on 8/22/2021, 11:04 PM

@fifonik I mentioned the tiny flickering since my major preview corruption problems seemed to emanate from video scopes + color grading. Major problems are gone, the flicker remains, so presumably unrelated.

@RogerS My CPU is i7 8700k, coffee lake, with Intel UHD Graphics 630. It has just slightly higher specs than Kaby Lake's Intel HD Graphics 630. This report shows OpenCL 3.0 in my driver:

VEGASPascal wrote on 8/23/2021, 8:43 AM

We reported some issues with the latest drivers to Intel. Hopefully, they will fix the issue as soon as possible. @bvideo Please try to use some older drivers.

bvideo wrote on 8/23/2021, 10:09 AM

When I rebooted today, the preview distortion was back again. I don't know what was wrong with my test methodology. The test requires the video scopes to be open. The color grading panel does not need to be open. An event with the color grading FX assigned will glitch after a few loops. The color grading need not have any parameters modified.

I went back one more driver version (26.20.100.7985) and this artifact is still there. The blanking behavior associated with pan/crop is gone. Now I don't know which driver version extinguished that. For the blanking issue, the color grading panel has to be open for the nature scene and try changing the RL color wheels parameters while that image is playing back.

Project: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Hel588DFFaCw_yY_Ro357Khl24okp4we/view?usp=sharing

Images: https://drive.google.com/file/d/14meV-1SqtnZFM2faQYwlZ8YGV-cmo4KQ/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XZ9DNMh_ZhaMeWq2gj1eYia_2qKvfyEd/view?usp=sharing

The images can also be seen earlier in this thread. To run the test, set a loop around the two images and enable looping playback. Make sure the video scopes window is open. It may take a few passes to see glitches.

Last changed by bvideo on 8/23/2021, 10:13 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Dedicated: Vegas 19&20, i7 8700k (UHD 630), 32 gig ram, ssd & 2 spinning units.

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bvideo wrote on 8/23/2021, 10:39 PM

@VEGASPascal @RogerS I went through the 5 GPU drivers I have from Intel and one driver from the MB manufacturer, Gigabyte. The oldest one I tried was from around April 2020. All drivers exhibited the occasional brief preview corruption in an event where the Color Grading FX was assigned and the video scopes are open, just as I described in my opening post. The CG panel need not be open and the CG parameters don't have to be changed from default. Sometimes it takes several passes through the event in a loop to see the first glitch. This can happen on a still or a video event. This artifact also occurred in the latest build of VP18, though maybe less often. I haven't tried rendering under these conditions.

My conclusion about drivers is that this is not very recent, nor is it a very obvious driver issue. It is certainly related to the "GPU acceleration of video processing" for my Intel UHD 630 because turning that off makes the problem go away.

The 2nd artifact, blanking when RL Color Wheels are changed and a pan/crop envelope is active, as I reported in my 2nd post, only happens on the most recent driver I have, which is 27.20.100.9316 from about March 2021, so it's evidence of "recent driver issues".

The 3rd anomaly as I mention in my 2nd post, where adding the CG FX moves Upscale around: 1) reverts when CG is removed, 2) doesn't always happen, 3) doesn't seem to make the upscale stop working. It just seems slightly wrong.

Other than disabling GPU acceleration altogether (or adding a good GPU @Musicvid) my available workaround is to close the video scope window when I'm using color grading.

bvideo wrote on 8/23/2021, 11:29 PM

Yikes! I thought I was done writing, but here's a new one: Instead of video scopes open, I put the old "swirl" Vegas effect on the video output. With Color Grading applied, the same brief corruptions show up, even when CG panel is not open.