Does Vegas Pro Have a Multi Pass Equivalent Feature ?

crown2020 wrote on 8/24/2020, 11:50 PM

Hello everyone.

I'm almost a year into Vegas Pro 17. I've never saw a feature for a two pass encode like one will see in say Handbreak. I found the following information on the web concerning a two pass encode.

" What is two pass encoding?

Two pass encoding, also known as multi-pass encoding, is a video encoding strategy used to retain the best quality during conversion.

In the first pass of two-pass encoding, the input data from the source clip is analyzed and stored in a log file. In the second pass, the collected data from the first pass is used to achieve the best encoding quality. In video encoding, two-pass encoding is usually controlled by the average bitrate setting or by the bitrate range setting (minimal and maximal allowed bitrate) or by the target video file size setting. The best way to understand why this is used is to think of a movie — when there are shots that are totally, absolutely black, like scene changes, normal 1-pass CBR encoding uses the exact same amount of data to that part as it uses for complex action scene. But by using VBR and multi-pass, encoder “knows” that this piece is OK with lower bitrate and that bitrate can be then used for more complex scenes, thus creating better quality for those scenes that require more bitrate."

Now, I can't help but to think that the reason Vegas Pro has no 2 pass encode feature, per say, is because of it's allowance to set custom VBR settings.

Would anyone care to elaborate on my theory or just flat out rebuke my theory altogether? I'm interested in learning more. This Vegas form is, (from what I can tell), obsolete concerning this subject matter.

Thanks to all, in advance, for your time.

Comments

RogerS wrote on 8/25/2020, 12:05 AM

Pretty sure Vegas has had multipass encoding and variable bit rates for well over a decade.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark (works with VP 16+): https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark (works with VP 20+): https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

fr0sty wrote on 8/25/2020, 12:16 AM

Former user wrote on 8/25/2020, 1:47 AM

 

Two pass encoding, also known as multi-pass encoding, is a video encoding strategy used to retain the best quality during conversion.

It's an old fashioned idea, and it was good for CD's or DVD's where you wanted to use up all the data space to get maximum quality. so 2 pass gave a 1 shot technique to give best quality in 2 passes for a predetermined file size. Today where an exact size is rarely required, for best quality the more efficient method for best quality at an approximate file size is Constant Quality mode. Every frame is the same quality, and the encoder varies the bitrate for that given quality. It is faster as it only needs a single pass

With constant quality mode you can juggle a specific CRF value (quality) with a peak bitrate to better give you the results and file size you want dependent upon the video. But if you still need to encode to an exact file size and only want to do it once, 2 pass still has it's place. Use Voukoder to get constant quality modes. Vegas and Voukoder both have 2 pass. It's not available for hardware encoding

crown2020 wrote on 8/25/2020, 8:12 AM

@fr0sty, or anyone else that cares to reply. I see your example includes a Magix format, (Internet 2160). I was able to find the same on Vegas Pro 17. Why does my screen shot not show a 2 pass option for my encoding option here: ?

fr0sty wrote on 8/25/2020, 8:16 AM

Use Magix AVC or HEVC instead of Sony AVC.

crown2020 wrote on 8/25/2020, 8:40 AM

@fr0sty, Yes. I see that. Why does Sony AVC not believe in a two pass encode was more long the lines of my question?

Yelandkeil wrote on 8/25/2020, 11:29 AM

1, Sony codecs are "mostly" designed for their machines such as Playstation etc, where the reliability of the video constructions more important than the other factors;

2, as @Former user pointed out, 2 pass encoding is some what old fashioned in front our media bandwidth today. There's no need to waste time to do that (any more).

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO 512GB->sys & 2TB->data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-AdrenalinEdition 24.7.1
Windows11Pro: 23H2-22631.3880; Direct3D Driver=9.17.11.0267

Samsung 2xLU28R55 300CD/m²HDR10 (peak 1499nits) ->2xDPort
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog

GH5sHLG_4k30p: AWB, Shutter=1/50, ISO=auto
ProtuneFlat_2.7k60pLinear: AWB, Shutter=auto, ISO=400

VEGASPro21/22 + Handbrake/XMediaRecode + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 

K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback) 

Musicvid wrote on 8/25/2020, 11:55 AM

@fr0sty, Yes. I see that. Why does Sony AVC not believe in a two pass encode was more long the lines of my question?

Sony AVC always uses a form of CQ encoding, which is more efficient, and does not make a scan pass, that's why. Magix/Mainconcept has single and two pass options, but not Constant Quality.

crown2020 wrote on 8/25/2020, 11:46 PM

@Musicvid, Thank you. Now I understand.

crown2020 wrote on 8/25/2020, 11:53 PM

@Former user, Thank you for your detailed explanation. I found it helpful.

crown2020 wrote on 8/25/2020, 11:55 PM

@Yelandkeil, I found your post helpful as well. It looks like I've not been encoding with a "bad" format after all.

fr0sty wrote on 8/26/2020, 12:14 AM

magix avc/hevc has advantages, like hdr or gpu rendering.

crown2020 wrote on 8/26/2020, 10:17 AM

@fr0sty, That is a good point. I will keep that in mind. At the moment, I do not process a great deal of video that requires those features. Mainly SD analog to digital stuff captured through a DV card.

fr0sty wrote on 8/26/2020, 10:41 AM

GPU rendering (NVenc, VCE, or Quicksync/QSV) can speed up the render of any resolution of video.

Last changed by fr0sty on 8/26/2020, 10:42 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)