Feature request - Vegas Pro

Laci-Kobulsky wrote on 9/14/2018, 4:14 AM

I have to be honest, I was trying to move to more professional software like Premiere Pro to improve my work output, but I simply love the workflow of the Vegas Pro and it hard to switch to anything else. I can create my videos fast and flexible.

However there are a few improvements / features I would love to see in future editions of the software that would make Vegas very competitive choice for many people, here are my suggestions:

-stability of the program - the most important thing is that Vegas should not crash

-fast performance - older versions (like 14) are significantly faster, it would be great if this is improved

(FOUNT, see posts below)-nesting and pre-rendering preview - while working on heavy 4k files I need to export file to be able to work with it. It would be great if there would be an easy built in option to pre-render files and work fast with them

(FOUNT, see posts below)-better quality render - my biggest issue is quality loss on render. I tried many settings but I still see a decrease in quality compare to other software

-advanced color grading - my other big issue is lack of professional color grading option, like Lumetri Color in premiere. I know you can more or less acjhieve simmilar result with plugins but it would be great to have one tool that can manage LUTs and all the basic corrections

(FOUNT, see posts below)-auto sync audio events - when I have autio from external mic I need to manualy sync it, other software has option to make this automatic

-import clips with variable frame rate - I am often working with high frame rate files and it would be great if there is option in import media that would automatically speed them up to real time, so for example I would write video is shot on 180fps and I want to import as 60 fps etc

-SLIP TOOL setting - its a great tool but I would like if I can change settings and the preview would show only the screen at the cursor. I often edit videos where action should match music, so I would stop cursor at the beat and then slip the right action to it

-audio file from video to specific location - it would be nice to have option to save .sfk files in one location, so they are not always messing around the folders

-support other fonts - not all fonts that are installed are available or work in basic text editor

(FOUNT, see posts below)-no disable resample - this is rather minor thing but still, it woudl be great to have "disable resample" as default option

-velocity faster than 1000% -

-audio velocity changing as video - would be great for slow motion clips.

-denoiser plugin

Thank you for your consideration, if there is any feature that I mention already implemented I will be happy to hear about it!

Comments

marc-s wrote on 9/14/2018, 7:58 AM

Vegas really was ahead of it time. Too bad it’s been so neglected over the years.

I think a long overdue feature is multiple timelines. Resolve just implemented the ability to have both tabbed and stacked timelines, really a great feature.

Stability, speed and better color correction would be my next requests.

Nick Hope wrote on 9/14/2018, 10:07 AM
-no disable resample - this is rather minor thing but still, it woudl be great to have "disable resample" as default option

This was introduced to Project Properties in VP15.

RogerS wrote on 9/15/2018, 3:12 AM

I totally agree with your list. These are things I would use with every project.

I'd like to see FinalCut-like compound clips where you can lock multiple cameras and audio together and it just looks like a block for editing purposes, but if you need to tweak it you can still jump back into the original clips. Vegas multicam tracks work but they lose info like envelopes when you expand to multiple tracks.

Laci-Kobulsky wrote on 9/15/2018, 3:58 AM

@RogerS I never saw this particular feature but what I do when I have some interview shots with multiple audio and video layers is that I manually sync them on multiple layers and then group them with "G" key so then they more around together. After in editing I just choose and delete parts I dont want etc... Vegas has functions for most cases but many times its hidden haha

fr0sty wrote on 9/15/2018, 4:34 AM

You'll find, if you go digging through Vegas built in plugins, that it has most if not all of the color tools Lumetri gives you, they just aren't all located in the same spot, so you have to go through and build a plugin chain to use them all. Vegas Saturation Adjust, color corrector, secondary color corrector, hitfilm vibrance, color vibrance, color curves... most of what the other apps offer is in there in some form, it just needs to be consolidated into one easy to use GUI that does it all.

"nesting and pre-rendering preview - while working n heavy 4k files I need to export file to be able to work with it. It would be great if there would be an easy built in option to pre-render files and work fast with them" Not sure what you meant about nesting, but Vegas has supported project nesting for years.

Right click your files in the media pool, select "build proxy". Done. Vegas will auto-swap them when you render.

"-fast performance - older versions (like 14) are significantly faster, it would be great if this is improved"

If you're noticing this, it must be an issue with your particular hardware setup, as I get far better timeline performance out of 16 than any previous version, especially when doing things like adding text or other media generators to the timeline. I also get faster GPU renders out of 16 vs. 15 or 14, about 25% faster, as I've shown in a video benchmark I posted in these forums a while back.

As for render quality, after trying premiere, Resolve, and Vegas, I see no difference in quality, other than premiere's levels being messed up, and it not being able to render HDR natively (at least the last time I checked, it forced colors to Rec709 and also screws up levels so the resulting image is extremely flat.

 

RogerS wrote on 9/15/2018, 4:38 AM

Hi Laci, yes, I do that. I find the mute envelope useful for that. It is a slower way to cut, though.

After I align the tracks (with help from PluralEyes), you create a multicamera video track and can hit 1, 2, etc. to choose your camera take in real-time and then just tweak the exact timing after the fact. I'm going from memory but you can't include audio in the multicamera or you lose audio envelopes and the like (which not helpful when you are trying to cut between mics).
When you do further editing you have to be careful when cutting out parts of clips that you are selecting all the audio too and it's still grouped right so you don't lose sync. It's delicate and I recommend saving new projects regularly for when you screw up, especially if auto-ripple is enabled.

With FinalCut X you just turn everything into a compound clip (group), it hides the underlying video and audio tracks. You can easily cut and rearrange them and not have to worry about syncing, grouping/ungrouping, etc.

RogerS wrote on 9/15/2018, 4:40 AM

You'll find, if you go digging through Vegas built in plugins, that it has most if not all of the color tools Lumetri gives you, they just aren't all located in the same spot, so you have to go through and build a plugin chain to use them all. Vegas Saturation Adjust, color corrector, secondary color corrector, hitfilm vibrance, color vibrance, color curves... most of what the other apps offer is in there in some form, it just needs to be consolidated into one easy to use GUI that does it all.

Exactly- you can do a lot in Vegas to color correct but it take more time, especially when changes of one attribute forces you to go to a different plugin and adjust it again. The shadow/highlights editing doesn't exist though. I wish you could do lens distortion, too. Maybe they could license PT Lens' database.

Roman-Nohejl wrote on 9/15/2018, 6:41 AM

Why does Vegas Pro not yet have a timeline of 50 and 60 frames per second?

Laci-Kobulsky wrote on 9/15/2018, 8:01 AM

@fr0sty thanks for your feedback, very valuable!

You'll find, if you go digging through Vegas built in plugins, that it has most if not all of the color tools Lumetri gives you, they just aren't all located in the same spot, so you have to go through and build a plugin chain to use them all. Vegas Saturation Adjust, color corrector, secondary color corrector, hitfilm vibrance, color vibrance, color curves... most of what the other apps offer is in there in some form, it just needs to be consolidated into one easy to use GUI that does it all.

You are right most of the grading is available, but not neatly as Lumetri where all is in one place. Exactly like @RogerS said it. What I miss is similar toolbar like Lightroom, where you can easily tweat shadows, highlights, blacks and whites.. remove noise, add clarity and more precise work with colors. I know what i am asking its togh job but that what would make Vegas a very competitive product.

Not sure what you meant about nesting, but Vegas has supported project nesting for years. Right click your files in the media pool, select "build proxy". Done. Vegas will auto-swap them when you render.

This is amazing to learn, thank you. See such feature and so hidden, I almost never work with media pool. It would be great if you could have this option directly if you right click on the timeline, so you dont have to search for the file in the media pool. Do you know how large the created proxys are and where they are stored? Could I just proxy all my media pool prior to editing?

By nesting I meant possibility to create one video / audio file from more elaborate sequence (that could be from the same or different timeline). This is useful for longer projects, like documentaries, when you edit each section on separate timeline and then export whole project together. It can be done in Premiere.

If you're noticing this, it must be an issue with your particular hardware setup, as I get far better timeline performance out of 16 than any previous version, especially when doing things like adding text or other media generators to the timeline. I also get faster GPU renders out of 16 vs. 15 or 14, about 25% faster, as I've shown in a video benchmark I posted in these forums a while back.

Well I think I have quite powerful computer I think:

plus Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060

I recently reinstalled to boost performance but V16 still runs slow compare to V14 or Premiere., not mentioning the lags and crashes...

As for render quality, after trying premiere, Resolve, and Vegas, I see no difference in quality, other than premiere's levels being messed up, and it not being able to render HDR natively (at least the last time I checked, it forced colors to Rec709 and also screws up levels so the resulting image is extremely flat.

Well I played around the settings and I think I came about reasonable quality but you have to really know how to set it up. If you just export as default preset its quite bad, I think for the many users it should be easier to get good quality export. Would you be kind enough to show me your export settings? Mine are:

@roman-Nohejl Why does Vegas Pro not yet have a timeline of 50 and 60 frames per second?

I believe it has! I export many projects in 50 or 60fps

 

Btw I have the urge to share with you my latest work, so you know that I mean business :) I would love if Vegas would develop into more sofisticated editing tool that could be used by professionals, since I think they have amazing workflow that gives much more creative space for editors -

fr0sty wrote on 9/15/2018, 2:01 PM

Reducing the number of slices, while increasing encode time, also increases encode quality IIRC. Also setting the bitrate higher will help. Also set your encode profile to high.

As for nesting, sounds like "mixing down" or "bouncing" as we call it in the audio world is what you mean, and you can do that by dragging a loop region over any area of the timeline you want to mix down into one video file, then select Tools>Render to New Track (or press CTRL+M). This opens a dialogue asking what format you want to render to. Since you are rendering for the purpose of continuing to edit, you will want to use a high quality intermediate format like Magix ProRes (renamed Intermediate Codec in latest release), Cineform, DNxHD, etc.

I don't remember exactly where proxies are stored, perhaps in the media folder where the clips are? I know they are 720p resolution MXF files if I remember right. Easily decoded and should edit smooth on most systems, even with multiple angles. You can indeed just highlight every clip in the project media and make proxies before you start editing, in fact that is the recommended way to do it.

Try updating your GPU driver, see if that helps your performance and stability issues. Also make sure you are using the latest version of VP16, version 261. I can't say I experience anything like that when working with V16.

Laci-Kobulsky wrote on 9/22/2018, 6:15 AM

I added some points in my first post plus updated points that have solution, so other people can learn from them like I did.

brian-f wrote on 5/3/2019, 6:08 PM

What? With the explorer tab in Vegas, you have to manually drill down to the location you want, whereas if they had a location input field, this changes to one copy and paste step vs. many many clicks.

Why? One major advantage of using Windows is its file management system, Explorer. Unlike the Mac's finder, you can copy and paste file paths into it (similar to a web browser address), e.g. c:\users\someone\videos. And viola, multiple clicks are turned into a single step.

Explorer Secrets: Another advantage of Windows Explorer, is that when you want to save something, you can do a save-as and then just paste a file path into the filename field and hit enter to go to it.

Secondly, you can copy and paste out of the save dialog box itself (great for dragging into another window), you can also rename files (other than the one you're currently working) on. Mac has never had this and instead relies on painful hunt and click, and editors are a demographic that loves shortcuts, so this would be a competitive advantage, since there is no Mac version of Vegas.

karma17 wrote on 5/4/2019, 9:08 PM

Vegas is getting better with every iteration. Magix had a lot of catching up to do but as they add features, of course, inevitable bugs pop up too kind of like Whack A Mole. And ironically, the last build of every iteration is usually fairly solid, but then it's time to move on to the next version with enough features to make people want to get it. So it is all a moving target, but personally, I'm very excited the direction Vegas is going and forever grateful that Magix rescued it.

P.S. I wouldn't say that Premiere is "more professional" than Vegas. I can edit the same project in Premiere, FCP, Resolve, and Vegas, and no one would be able to tell the difference. It is, as you suggest, a matter of preference and the ability to get things done efficiently and as you want them done.

Musicvid wrote on 5/5/2019, 9:34 AM

Vegas is getting better with every iteration. Magix had a lot of catching up to do but as they add features, of course, inevitable bugs pop up too kind of like Whack A Mole. And ironically, the last build of every iteration is usually fairly solid, but then it's time to move on to the next version with enough features to make people want to get it. So it is all a moving target, but personally, I'm very excited the direction Vegas is going and forever grateful that Magix rescued it.

P.S. I wouldn't say that Premiere is "more professional" than Vegas. I can edit the same project in Premiere, FCP, Resolve, and Vegas, and no one would be able to tell the difference. It is, as you suggest, a matter of preference and the ability to get things done efficiently and as you want them done.

+1

It's been ten years since I opened Premiere.

Paying by the month is no guarantee of professional results.

Grazie wrote on 5/5/2019, 9:53 AM

It's been ten years since I opened Premiere.

Paying by the month is no guarantee of professional results.

@Musicvid - I’ve been reading and scribbling words here since..... well, you’ve just nailed so much of what I feel too. Just to repeat, “Paying by the month is no guarantee of professional results.

Grazie

PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti

PC 10 64-bit 64gb * Intel® Core™i9 - 3.3GHz * 40Gb NVIDIA  GeForce RTX 2070

Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX60HS Bridge

Musicvid wrote on 5/5/2019, 11:10 AM

@Grazie

Thanks for the kind words. Your support and validation this past year has been energizing, and would be difficult to dismiss or let pass unnoticed.

To clear up one thing I said to you -- my vision of being the next great presidential campaign writer has dialed back a bit, with my candidate firmly locked in with 1% of the vote. We will see after Iowa, but with no names of former brewpub owners to be mentioned on the forum.

Laci-Kobulsky wrote on 5/6/2019, 2:48 AM

Vegas is getting better with every iteration. Magix had a lot of catching up to do but as they add features, of course, inevitable bugs pop up too kind of like Whack A Mole. And ironically, the last build of every iteration is usually fairly solid, but then it's time to move on to the next version with enough features to make people want to get it. So it is all a moving target, but personally, I'm very excited the direction Vegas is going and forever grateful that Magix rescued it.

P.S. I wouldn't say that Premiere is "more professional" than Vegas. I can edit the same project in Premiere, FCP, Resolve, and Vegas, and no one would be able to tell the difference. It is, as you suggest, a matter of preference and the ability to get things done efficiently and as you want them done.

Agree 100%, I too am very happy with the Vegas direction and I would not want to use any other editing software right now. Regarding the professionalism of Premiere, it's more case of beying it used as a standard in the industry. if you want to work in some production company or cooperate with other editors, likely you will have to edit in Premiere. But if you are independent like me it's fine.